Original Side Lock

[doc623]

I have a friend that has an original late 1800's regionally made .45 percussion rifle.
He would dearly like to use this ML to harvest a white tail deer some season.
The ML is in good condition and all parts seem operational.
Question is how could one determine if this ML is in safe to use without destroying the ML or the operator.
Some will say not to bother/dare to damage this rare ML.
I also know that the one way was/is to proof test/fire. This is not an option.
Have checked by a gunsmith who specializes in black powder arms. This is not an option in this area and would be only an educated opinion at best.
Any other thoughts/options?

[AtlLaw]

Oh well, here we go...    You just HAD to bring up a subject that I HAVE to give my opinion on!    'course this is just my opinion so take it FWIW... don't let the fact that I am always right influence you!  

I have a friend that has an original late 1800's regionally made .45 percussion rifle.

Personally, I would love to see pictues, list of measurements, discription of any markings, how he knows when and where it was made, etc.

He would dearly like to use this ML to harvest a white tail deer some season.

Since it ain't his Great Grandaddy's rifle-gun I would think that any ML would do and his wanting to use "this ML" is based on the fact that it is the one he has on hand!  'course that's if he wants to kill a deer... if he wants to harvest something a scythe would make a better tool...

[AtlLaw]

Sorry for the extra post(s) but the screen was acting wierd when I was trying to reply... 

Anyway, where was I...    Oh yah!  chasing Bambi around with a scythe or sickle... 

Some will say not to bother/dare to damage this rare ML.

Well, it is yet to be proven that it is rare, but what someone does with his own property, as long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else, is up to him.

The ML is in good condition and all parts seem operational.
Question is how could one determine if this ML is in safe to use without destroying the ML or the operator.
I also know that the one way was/is to proof test/fire. This is not an option.
Have checked by a gunsmith who specializes in black powder arms. This is not an option in this area and would be only an educated opinion at best.

This is the real question isn't it?  Can the weapon be fired safely.  And I'll give you my opinion in the next post!   

[AtlLaw]

Congrats on  "one way was/is to proof test/fire.  This is not an option."  I never thought much of the tire/string/tree method.   

And, since you don't have a BP gunsmith handy you can't get an "educated opinion," which is probably all you would get from a gunsmith.  Except sending metal parts out for magnafluxing, which you probably can do also, a gunsmith would probably rely on visual evaluations of the firearm.  And what he will just as probably tell you is that he would not recommend you fire the rifle 'cause he when it blows up he doesn't want you calling me saying he told you it was safe to shoot!   

So, make your own observations and decisions and accept responsibility for them no matter what the outcome.

[coyotejoe]

Like Richard said, he's always right, it's hard to get a gunsmith to render an opinion due to liability concerns. Sometimes old guns are booby traps. As an example, say the nipple drum is so loose it nearly falls out. Someone 50 years ago, with no intention of ever firing it, may have epoxied it nice and tight just to hang on the wall. Years later someone gets it and wants to actually shoot it. Everything seems fine until the drum blows out and kills the next guy on the firing line.

[AtlLaw]

Now, even if I knew exactly how I would procede were I in your friend's situation, which I do BTW  , I would not state it here.  (See previous post)

What I would say is that if your friend has such a burning desire to hunt with this rifle, he should first build a BP ML himself.  And I don't mean putting together a CVA kit.  I mean buy the barrel and other parts needed, fit the breachplug, cut divetails with a file, fit the metal to the stock, the whole nine yards!  Okay, he can use a pre-inletted stock... 

In so doing, and by also doing the research required to perform each step, he will become intimately familiar with the workings of a ML!  Lock, Stock and Barrel!     When he's done that he will be better able to make an informed decision on wether or not to fire his old rifle.  And just think!  He doesn't even need to buy a set of headspace gauges!   

I'm reminded of an article I read a number of years ago.     It seems the author was in your situation and after a visual inspection fired the rifle.  Upon firing the breachplug promptly blew out.     Visually the area looked fine, but unseen was the rust that had eaten away much of the breachplug/barrel threads.  He shouda known better then to let that happen!   Especially in such a critical area. 

[AtlLaw]

Sometimes old guns are booby traps. As an example, say the nipple drum is so loose it nearly falls out.

SEE!! SEE!!      That's what I'm talking about!     Along the lines of CJ's example, I once screwed up, I know, hard to believe... anyway, I screwed up the last nipple threads I cut in a drum.  I know about it and it is fine as long as I don't cross thread the nipple puttin it back in but I just haven't got around to buying, drilling and tapping a new drum.  Like I said, I know about the potential problem, but what about some future owner after I leave this life?

Wasn't there just a thread in this forum that mentions a nipple being ejected from a drum!?  So we have identified two critical areas on a part as small as the drum!  And there is probably a third!     And those don't include workmanship errors like mine!     Oh the pain... the pain... 

[necchi]

Any other thoughts/options?

Oil the metal, polish the wood,, and hang it back on the wall.

[doc623]

Thanks for the thoughts.
This rifle-gun has been researched and documented  locally historically correct if not significant.
They are rare.
Magnafluxing is not an option.
Given the info and lack of acceptable certifying as to its safety ; I will probably return it to the wall as I do not wish to be a test case and have grown very fond of all of my parts.

[DennyRoark]

Got any pics?  Would love to see it.......

[AtlLaw]

Pics would be nice... I've already asked fore measurements.   

I would also like to hear about the history and documentation and how it was researched.  All this stuff is interesting if you like to build these things.   

[beerbelly]

I have an 1861 musket or at least it once was. At some point the stock has been cut down and the front lugs ground off. My guess it was used as a shotgun in the distant past.
  It is not worth any thing as it is just a piece of very old junk. But I just had to shoot it! Luckily I got away with it, with out losing any of my parts. It was a stupid thing to do and I will never fire it again. Just because I was lucky once don't mean I would be again!
                                      Beerbelly

[j two dogs]

Such a joy to shoot one of those originals. I found one hanging on the wall in old defunct gun store. Picked it up for 100 dollars. Took it to Antique and modern firearms in Lex. ky..The owner of the store estimated that it was built circa 1870 while he did not offer a price or rate the condition for me it was a starting point.
The barrel was so rusted (orginally .36 cal), many problems with it and the original value was not such that a little refurb was going to hurt it. So the barrel went to Ed Rayl. he cut it out to a .40. My local smith went over it. Some corrision over the years but but plug and drum had plenty of threads left. After a little TLC. The gun was printing 1.5 inches with some crappy sights,(Getting ready to replace them) at 55 yds. When you pull the trigger on one of those it evokes thoughts of a long gone era at least for me.
I made a bone head mistake and was shooting upwards of 80 grains in it at first so I know at least for me it can handle the pressure I do use with it, 40 grains and a patched ball.