Interesting Day of Hunting with my Savage 220

[kb]

I posted this in the slug gun forum, but it also fits in here.

Please comment.

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,220635.0.html

Thanks

[S.E.Ak]

Best if I don't

[kb]

The 3 inch Barnes expander has a muzzle velocity of 1900 fps with its 5/8 inch slug.  At 30 yards it should have pierced into the chest cavity and done some damage.  Didnt even make her flinch.

[Thebear_78]

I'm with you S.E.Ak,

[kb]

Why?  Here is someone looking for advice/answers to a question that he came across.   

[Drilling Man]

  If i shot a cub and wounded the sow, i wouldn't be too proud of my day.

  DM

[S.E.Ak]

Still better to be quite   Did send thread to the state to see if they approve

[kb]

These bears have been creating quite a problem in the neighborhood (at night), and were becoming unafraid of people.  The bears were literally greeting people at their garbage cans and digging at their garage doors when trash was stored inside.  Many residents of the area were looking for them too.  It was very unusual to see them during the day, so when the opportunity presented itself, I took it.

Now that an unnecessary explanation has been offered, why dont we just stick to the question that was asked.  If you dont know, than just say so, or say nothing.  Remember, hunting is not catch and release.  If I had it my way, I'd have taken both of them.

My intention is to learn why the sow wasnt stopped with the slug.  Was it just not enough gun?  At 30 yards with a scoped gun, it was good shot placement.  The 'cub' had a live weight of over 200 lbs, hardly a little guy.

I had a great day, and am only at a loss why the sow got away and am trying to learn what went wrong.  Next time I hunt there, I'll have my rifle.  

[kb]

Still better to be quite   Did send thread to the state to see if they approve

Everything was legal, and reported as per the law on the day of harvest.  Get over it. 

Now Im beginning to see why people leave this site.  We are supposed to be hunters helping hunters, or have we forgotten that?

[hillbill]

dang if the cub weighed 200, what do yu think the bigger bear weighed?if it was near 450 or so that mite of been quite a chore for that 20 ga slug.even a 3 in mag.if the bear had pretty good covering of fat, its possible the slug may of not entered the boiler room with enuf power to do a lot of damage.you mite try sum expansion tests into something that is similar to bear meat and see what happens.

[Drilling Man]

its possible the slug may of not entered the boiler room with enuf power to do a lot of damage.

  I don't believe that for a minute, and i stand by my origional post.

  DM

[kb]

The larger bear was easily twice the size of the smaller younger one.  You can bet that the next time I hunt there, I'll be sporting my rifle.  I like to use my shotgun simply as a precaution due to the fact that the area is surrounded by houses and yards.  Hunting from a tree stand Im shooting down into the ground anyway.

I was thinking that the 20 gauge wasn't enough gun.   I keep rolling it around in my mind, and that's the only thing I can come up with.  Hindsight is 20/20.


Seak, Drilling man, TheBear_78:  You have never shot a game animal and never recovered it?  Damn your good.

[S.E.Ak]

Nope and if you lose a bear where I live it counts as your bear for four years before you try again on browns. Big difference between hunters and shooters.

[Drilling Man]

Seak, Drilling man, TheBear_78:  You have never shot a game animal and never recovered it?  Damn your good.

  I have never woulded and lost any bear, but i HAVE tracked down and recovered a few that others have wounded, includeing brown bears.

  DM

[hillbill]

if the shot was a bit off, say 6 in too far back and it was a fat bear, there would be no exit.im jus thinking regardless he wasnt useing enuf gun for that big a animal?im thinking id of thought twice before i took that shot but i might of still done it. its one of those had to be there deals.

[Thebear_78]

First off there is no bear that could take a 3" 20ga slug to the vitals and not die.   Generaly bears are kinda hard to pinpoint an aiming point because of the black on black,  especially at weird angles.  IF it was a quartering to shot its very possible to shoot a bit far back.  Fat fall bears don't tend to leave great blood trails, lots of fat to plug up holes and thick absorbant underfur, it takes a pretty good sized hole to drain one out.    I would start looking for crows, it seems that most deer hunters tend to shoot bears closer to the middle so I wouldn't be surprized if you hit a little far back.  Start scanning the skies for crows and other scavenger birds, it probably didn't make it too far.

[kb]

Thank you for the advice.  Ill keep an eye out.  It was a broadside shot, and we tracked it for over 2 miles (3/4 mile straight line gps).  Im going to head back and give it another look.  

[sert01]

KB  After looking at the pics on your other post,I'm gonna respond.That was not a "cub". It had a fully developed snout and ears . It's head was elongated and not round like a cub. Ya know, we have a lot of bear in Pa. also and I have seen alot of them in my life in the woods. Sometimes us "mere mortals" make a good hit but it just doesn't work out. I've lost a couple of animals in my 40+ years of hunting and it still bothers me to this day. And it sure wasn't for lack of a good hit or lack of trying to find them also. That is a legal bear. Congrats on it and the two doe. As far as the 20 gauge slug, not much help there as I've never hunted with slugs. My thought is that it should have done the job at that range, though. Remember folks, "judge not lest ye be judged."  Sert01

[kb]

Thank you very much.  Its nice to hear from another hunter.  We just had some for dinner, and all I can say is WOW.  It is delicious.  Never had it before.  Next time Ill be a little more prepared for a bear, but I used what I had at the time - didnt think that using a 20ga would be 'under gunning'.

Both my friend and I enjoy hunting together and share all our game.  We are meat hunters, not trophy hunters.  Big difference. 

Have yourself a wonderful Thanksgiving.

Kb

[S.E.Ak]

I would and do exspect to be judged the same and if I ever have a day like that I hope my butt is kicked and guns taken from me.Simple as that and he would be an outcast in Alaska

[Drilling Man]

Thank you very much.  Its nice to hear from another hunter.  We just had some for dinner, and all I can say is WOW.  It is delicious.  Never had it before.  Next time Ill be a little more prepared for a bear, but I used what I had at the time - didnt think that using a 20ga would be 'under gunning'.

Both my friend and I enjoy hunting together and share all our game.  We are meat hunters, not trophy hunters.  Big difference. 

Have yourself a wonderful Thanksgiving.

Kb

  aaaaaaaww, now i get it...  If your a "meat" hunter where YOU live, it's OK to gut shoot your deer and then gut shoot your bear, looseing it...  Then wondering why your slug gun didn't do a better job?

  I'm also a meat hunter, but we don't think that way here where i live...  Horns or no horns, poor shooting is still poor shooting!

  DM

[AtlLaw]

The 'cub' had a live weight of over 200 lbs, hardly a little guy.

I don't know what I would have done and I guess what I would have done doesn't make much difference anyway.     But, not ever having shot a bear I eagerly look at all pictures to try to develop some sizing skills so understand I'm not being critical of you here, just inquisative.  I was hoping to make a bear hunt this last fall and still wish to in the near, I don't have much far remaining, future.   

From your pictures it looks like the larger of the 2 deer is actually a "button" buck rather then a doe.  Down hereabouts a large button might go 40# field dressed.  The same age doe would be smaller, like the two in your picture.  Of course your deer could be, and probably are, bigger then ours.

Anyway, now that I have a frame of reference for the size (dimentions) of the bear in mind, I'd like to compare it with an accurate weight.  You said it was over 200 lbs. live.  Was this based on the fact that you weighed it before field dressing it, or an interpolation after what scale said it weighed after being dressed?   

From what I have read here on the forums, a 200 - 250 pound bear is actually about average.

[kb]

The bear was about 150 pounds dressed.  This was weighed on a scale after I returned home.  I guesstimated the live weight to be around 200 lbs.  Im not sure how heavy the guts were, so Im just guesstimating here for that.

[Lost Oki]

Drilling Man.....Great Post    aaaaaaaww, now i get it...  If your a "meat" hunter where YOU live, it's OK to gut shoot your deer and then gut shoot your bear, looseing it...  Then wondering why your slug gun didn't do a better job?

  I'm also a meat hunter, but we don't think that way here where i live...  Horns or no horns, poor shooting is still poor shooting!
                                                  NOT !!!

.....Some of you PERFECT HUNTERS ??   As they say, its better not to open your mouth and leave them guessing as to open it and confirm their suspicions. 
I have been hunting for more than 50 years and like most of the members here, I always do my best to take any game with a good shot.  Not being perfect like some, I have lost one 6 point.  I pulled the trigger and he jumped at the same time.  Although gut shot, he would have left a blood trail except for the downpour.  My son and I hunted the area for 3 days in the rain with no sign.  Guess I wouldn't make it in your PERFECT ALASKA but then again....I sure as heck don't want to if that's the attitude.

KB, 20 gauge 3 inch was enough gun.  Not a real fan of the expander type bullets on anything but whitetail.  I usually use a foster type slug.
As far as button bucks, never an issue with the folks I hunt with, course we do our best to avoid the PERFECT Rack hunters....Where I hunt a button will usually go 65 to 70 field dressed.  They are corn and soybean fed.  Other areas I have hunted a 3 year old will go around the same.  Depends on what part of the country you are in.  Sorry you lost your bear.  My guess ( and its a guess) is that slug type, placement and weight (fat) of bear all had something to do with it. 

[kb]

Well the bear and deer all taste great! 

I always laugh at the 'perfect' hunters, most are liars and chest beaters - not worth my time and always more interested in telling you how great THEY are.  Its always great to have a perfect shot, but the real world isnt perfect.  Gut shots are always a mistake and never the objective, but never let the fear of striking out prevent you from getting up at bat.

Have I lost game, yes.  Am I happy about it NO.  Do I strive to understand what happened so it doesnt happen again, yes.  I definitely have better things to do with my time then to sit in the cold for hours (or minutes that particular day), shoot an animal and not recover it.  If I just wanted to shoot, then I just go to the range and shoot at paper.

Many hunters around here prefer the button bucks and yearlings as they do eat better.  My buddy took an 8 point last year and again this year, and they both were not as good on the table.  The younger ones go to chops and steaks, and the older ones go to sausage.  Yes, this is with proper field care.