Author Topic: .243 and a Blood trail (Read 5430 times)

Blue Duck · « **on:** November 22, 2010, 04:43:00 AM »

This was my first season with a .243 on deer. Two bucks taken each with one shot. The first one was hit in the lungs with no exit. He ran 50 yards or so and piled up. The second buck was heart shot and no exit, he went about a 100 feet. Both deer were shot at 60 to 70 yards with Remington 100 gr. Core-lokts. Neither deer left any blood trail at all. The second one was taken in the snow and I was very surprised to see that there was no sign of a blood trail. I have no problem the way it kills. I was just wondering if this is typical or do you usually get a decent blood trail?

Spanky · « **Reply #1 on:** November 22, 2010, 05:05:59 AM »

I'm surprised you didn't get an exit wound on either one. I've shot 'em with a 223 at that range and had it blast right through 'em using 55gr. soft points. Did you recover the bullets from the animals? How did they look? Were they intact or did the cup and core separate?
As far as a blood trail... with no exit you're not gonna get much of one. Especially with a single .243 hole in 'em. I think a .243 makes a pretty good deer gun... it kills 'em dead.

Spanky

Graybeard · « **Reply #2 on:** November 22, 2010, 05:06:09 AM »

I've shot a grand total of one deer with the .243 or maybe I missed I guess I'll never know for sure.

I was in my home made stand with a rock solid shooting rail all around made of 2x4s. The rifle was a Browning Low Wall shooting Hornady Custom ammo and with that ammo shot groups of half to three quarters of an inch at 100 yards.

The shot was at most 75 yards. The buck was walking along and in the clear. I saw nothing but air between us. As the shot (aimed for the lungs) broke the deer took a step and the sight picture at the moment the gun went off told me it should have been a rear of right lung into middle of left lung shot or at worse clipped the front of liver and into rear of left lung.

The buck ran as if unharmed for well over 200 yards in view of me than I heard it run on until too far away to be heard any longer. I walked over and found no blood sign and no clipped branches or anything. I followed the path the deer took and never found a drop of blood. I looked for a couple hours then gave up.

I'll never know if I hit the buck and he just got away or if I for some reason missed. I'd rather think the latter as I'd hate to know it died unfound but I'd also hate to know the round was that ineffective. I just dunno. What I do know is I've never used a .243 to hunt deer since.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #3 on:** November 22, 2010, 05:13:14 AM »

What you say has been the typical experience for me.

I detailed my last go around with the 243 in an old "Is the 243 marginal for deer" thread so I won't do it again. Suffice it to say the experience was much like yours, 2 bucks a few days apart, both standing broadside at around 100 yards, 100 gr. Sierra BT behind the shoulder, no exit. Had a heck ofa time finding the first one. $:-\$ It made it around 50 - 75 yards with NO blood trail.

I can also relate times when I got complete broadside penetration.

You'll get many opinions, there always are when ever this 243 subject comes up!

Add-on: I just read Bill's post. I was using a Low Wall also.

Obviously the rifle was at fault in our experiences!

It couldn't be the cartridge!

Whatever, that was a number of years ago and I haven't used that chambering since for deer. $:-\$ Makes a darn fine coyote rifle with Nosler 55 gr. BT's though!

drdougrx · « **Reply #4 on:** November 22, 2010, 08:15:41 AM »

Bet I've shot 6 or 8 animals with the .243....mostly with a 95gr BT. I can't remember any kinda blood trail at all. I did have massive destruction with a huge exit on an exotic sheep, but the shot was nearly at contact distance. I don't think I'd use it on any kinda trophy or big animal hunt where there's a chance to take a really heavy >180lb deer. That's me. My .243 is relegated to small big game like pronghorn or the various exotic sheep or coyotes.

charles p · « **Reply #5 on:** November 22, 2010, 10:59:00 AM »

I think some heart lung shot deer, even with exit holes, do not always bleed externally. I shot a doe last week that I found about 200 feet away, in a heavily wooded area. There was no blood at the site of the shot and none where she fell.

I once shot a young buck in the heart and it whirled and ran through a very narrow strip of woods. It should have been easy to recover. I looked for an hour and returned to my truck to find the buck piled up right beside my truck. The next day I returned to the same stand and tracked the buck backward from the point where it died. There was an exceptional blood trail for about 100 feet, then nothing for the 100 yards to the site where it was standing when I shot it. I think the cavity had to fill up to the bullet holes before the blood poured out. Not a scientific explanation - just an assumption.

TheCoachZed · « **Reply #6 on:** November 22, 2010, 01:53:16 PM »

The whitetail I shot last year (hit him twice with a .30-30, 170 grain, in his lungs and heart) didn't leave a blood trail. The black bear I shot (and lost) this year with that same rifle left no blood trail.

You don't always get one.

243dave · « **Reply #7 on:** November 22, 2010, 05:19:38 PM »

If you want large exit wounds with a 243 load up some 100gr speer grand-slams in front of a max load of h-4831(my favorite). When using 24 caliber rifles, bullet selection is critical when breaking shoulders or extreme angles are encountered. Get a 100gr premium bullet that shoots well in your gun and it will kill as well as the bigger calibers while leaving big exits and quick kills. Bullets make a big difference in small calibers. Dave

Keith1 · « **Reply #8 on:** November 22, 2010, 06:22:46 PM »

I am not defending the 243 in either way, pro or con. I am just saying what I saw 2 years ago. I stood about 3-4 feet away from a friends daughter and watched her pop a cow elk with a 243 loaded with 100 grain Hornady spire points. The distance was about 90 yards. She was aiming for the neck and the bullet hit about where the neck begins, just in front of the body. The bullet did not hit the neck bone having missed it by 1/2 inch or so passing on top. The bullet did not penetrate to the off side skin and I now have it. The elk did not take a step, just fell down and died.

Why did the elk die so fast? I have no idea as nothing vital was hit. Is the 243 a good deer/elk round? All that I know is that time it worked like lightening and didn't need a blood trail.

Regards, Keith
Semper Fi

jeepmann1948 · « **Reply #9 on:** November 23, 2010, 02:08:24 AM »

From my experience working with kids at Operation Orphans ,the 243 is a good gun on Texas sized whitetails. We were using 100 gr ammon with the same mixed results as mentioned above.After I was given the Hunt Director position , I found after much testing of different ammo that the Remington 80 gr green box ammo produced better results than the 100 gr. We started using these sighted 1/4 " low at 25 yards which gives them a point blank range just over 200 yards.The number of lost deer went to almost none.{Most of the kids have never shot a rifle before they come to the hunt)I think the 80 gr produces more hydrostatic shock than the 100gr causing more trauma and a faster put down.The kids also use 222 Rem with the same great result (16,280 deer in 45 years).Personally all of the deer I have shot with a 243 have been head shots with 85gr Sierra hp reloads and immediate bang flop results.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #10 on:** November 23, 2010, 04:02:52 AM »

Quote from: 243dave on November 22, 2010, 05:19:38 PM

Bullets make a big difference in small calibers.

That has always been my thought. Matter of fact, I still have a bunch of Partitions and Grand Slams laying around from when I was trying to work up a load for my Low Wall. I could never get them to shoot well. I finally stumbled on a load using Sierra SPBT's that shot wonderfully in it!

Unfortunately, it has been my experience that Sierra BT's don't hold together well. The aforementioned 2 bucks being an example. On both deer the inside of the rib cage on the off side was splattered with jacket fragments. The rest of the insides sure were a mess though!

I may try to make those premium bullets work in my Low Wall once more, but there are so many other rifles ahead of it in rotation I doubt if I will ever use it on deer again.

anweis · « **Reply #11 on:** November 23, 2010, 04:11:51 AM »

I don't have a .243 Win, i have a 6mm Remington, which, from a deer's point of view, is the same.
I shot 4 deer with this rifle.
1. Hornady 95 grain SST bullet, loaded to max of chart with IMR 4350, very fast, 3000 fps or so, lung and heart shot from 40 yards, no exit wound, i lost the bullet when i gutted the deer. Deer ran 30 yards and died.
Deer 2,3,4 were shot with the Hornady RN 100 grain semiroundnose bullet. This, loaded soft, at the low end of the scale with IMR 4350, about 2700 fps. Deer were
1. Shot in the neck, dropped dead, 1.5 exit hole
2. Shot in the lungs, a bit too far behind close to the diaphragm, lots of blood on the trail, deer ran 20 yards and died. 1/2" inch exit wound, but there were 4" holes in the rib cage under the skin. Lots of blood everywhere on leaves.
3.Shot high in lungs under the spine, angling downward. Deer dropped on the spot and died quicly. 1 inch exit hole in hide, 4-5 inch holes in rib cage, blood spattered by the shot everywhere, even 10 ft away from deer.

The .243 and the 6mm kill very well. You don't need a blood trail for them. It may be that the spitzer bullets shot by .243 were too soft and flying too fast, failing to exit.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #12 on:** November 23, 2010, 05:00:27 AM »

I have shot a number of deer with different 243 bullets. All resulted in quick kills, exit wounds and recovered animals.
One a 90 grain Speer at a bit over 100 yards hit just under spine. Deer ran directly at me about fourth yards and fell over dead.
One with a 95 partition high shoulder at 80 or so. Again short run and died running skidding on it's chin.
Then a couple with the excellent Hornady 100 RN bullet. I have smashed the spine shoulders and leg bones always got an exit even got one bang flop. It's THE bullet I load in mine now.

More powerful rounds would have dropped the game faster with same shots. But if you do your part both by picking the proper bullets and your shots the 243 is an excellent whitetail cartridge.
CW

Blue Duck · « **Reply #13 on:** November 23, 2010, 11:58:42 AM »

I appreciate the replys. (spanky) I did recover both bullets. Both held togather, mushroomed and looked textbook. Both shots angled a little forward and ended up in shoulder mussel on the far side. I reload and my intention was to shoot the factory loads this year and have enough brass to load for next year. I have always been partial to Nosler Partitions and thought Id give them a try. I also like what I hear about the grand slams too. Again I appreciat hearing about other peoples experiences...

flintlock · « **Reply #14 on:** November 23, 2010, 02:22:30 PM »

I've killed over 200 deer with my .243, much of the time I didn't need a blood trail...They either drop within sight or I go to where I last saw them and see them laying just a few yards away...At least 85-90 were shot with the 100gr CoreLokts, if they fall within 50 yards I don't need need a blood trail...If I need them to fall on the spot because I'm in the swamp or near a cutover I just use a high shoulder shot...

About 10 years ago I decided to try each factory loading on whitetails...Over the course of 7-8 years a buddy and I would shoot 5-6 with a factory loading and move to the next one...We did notice a trend that the "harder" bullets allowed the deer to run further on lung shots vs the "softer" bullets...The bullets that seldom exited were the Federal Premium 100gr Sierra GameKing SPBT and the Winchester 100gr PowerPoints...The surprise in the bunch was the Federal Premium loaded with the Sierra GameKing 85gr HPBT...That is THE bullet to use when shots get out past 200 yards...

The 100gr Federal Premium Nosler Partition will give you reliable exits, as will the 100gr Hornady Custom loading...The CoreLokt is a bit softer than these two bullets but is also seems to drop the deer closer to the shot...

If those deer had been 150 yards instead of 60-70 then you would have had an exit...I'd try the Hornady or the Federal Premium Nosler Partition loading if you want an exit every time...

At the end of our testing my buddy and I both ended up using two different loadings...He stuck with the Hornadys and I with the CoreLokts...The decision was made by the rifles, they each preferred those rounds...Mine actually groups the CoreLokts two inches high at 100 yards and the Federal Premium 86gr HPBT 2 1/2 high at 100...So I simply use the 85gr bullet when hunting our larger bean fields in eastern NC and the cheaper CoreLokts for everything else...

Drilling Man · « **Reply #15 on:** November 23, 2010, 02:51:09 PM »

I never considered my .243 a decent deer rifle, until i switched to 100NP's. I say that because even with "other" 100 grain bullets i rarely got an exit.

I'm one of those big game hunters who believes that big game dies faster with an exit wound, and my more than 40 years of taking big game has proved it to me over and over.

Then there's the fact that without an exit wound, you rarely have any blood to trail by. You can see it for yourself,

Entrance,

Exit,

I took a pict of this buck, turned him over and took another pict...

DM

nomosendero · « **Reply #16 on:** November 23, 2010, 03:40:13 PM »

+1

I had a 243 Handi that the boys used when they were 10-12 or so, I had some NP's, they did well.

chutesnreloads · « **Reply #17 on:** November 23, 2010, 03:46:12 PM »

.243 isn't the only round leaving no trail.Remember a deer shot with 30-06 and 180 grain rem.bronze point.Quartering shot entered last rib and exited right behind his shoulder.He ran about 50-60 yards into the brush.Was able to follow his tracks but until I got to him there was only two itty bitty drops of blood.His chest cavity was full of it though it just didn't leak out.Sometimes stuff just happens.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #18 on:** November 25, 2010, 11:19:38 PM »

ive killed a slug of deer with the 6mm rem and can honestly say ive never lost one or even had to track one. Granted the bullets usually dont exit and it would be a problem to track but the 100 grain 6mm bullets ive used usually untrack them and its not nessisary. Ive mulled over many times back when i used them alot going to a premium bullet but i guess i allways worried that doing so might leave a better blood trail but also might make the chance i have to track in the first place more likely. Put a 100 grain cup and core bullet in the boiler room of a deer at a sane range and no deer is going to go more the a 100 yards and even in the thick swamps up here i never had a problem finding deer that only went that distance. Bottom line is you can run into the same thing with the 25 cal guns and even guns bigger then that. Id guess that 95 percent of the bashers of the 243s got there attitude from poor shooting or poor tracking skills. That particular 6mm was used by me for 10 years as my only deer rifle then became the camp gun and just about everyone at camp shot at least one deer with it including all my kids my father and my 5 nephews. Now it belongs to one of the nephews and hes used it exclusively for 5 years and has shot a bunch of deer with it and i can never remember a single deer lost to that gun. I used a number of differnt cup and core 100 grain bullets and they all worked fine and since it became the camp gun and now the nephews it has seen a steady diet of corelock ammo and i cant say enough about how well its worked.

STRANGE1 · « **Reply #19 on:** November 26, 2010, 01:26:06 AM »

Shot one in the neck yesterday with a 243. Fell in its tracks, no need for a blood trail. I dont see a problem. Just like larger calibers, shot placement is important.

rickt300 · « **Reply #20 on:** November 26, 2010, 06:08:32 AM »

Getting a blood trail is shot placement specific. A high lung hit won't spill much blood thru the exit hole until the chest fills up with blood but the deer will most likely bleed out it's nose some. Low chest hits usually bleed pretty good with an exit hole. This said I feel the 6MM's are kind of in limbo between a good varmint cartridge (too powerful) and a good deer cartridge ( be picky with shot angles). I have had just as good of luck using my 22-250 on deer because if I am being picky with my shots it kills just as well as anything else and it makes a bit better varmint rifle. My 7x57 is far better on the bigger stuff than either the 243 or the 22-250 but the 22-250 is what I generally use to fill my doe tags. Back to tracking, it isn't all about blood but blood does make it easier.

454Puma · « **Reply #21 on:** November 26, 2010, 07:55:40 AM »

Drilling Man
You and I are of the same mindset! I've alway prefered and exit. Proven fact two holes leak better then one! But we also have to throw in the fact that where those holes are a big part of if you will get leakage! We've all got enough experience to know that high chest hits will most likely not give good blood trails - physics says so! As your pictures show! Move that hit 3-4" lower and much more blood would have came out! One other thing I'll through into the mix is I always strive to break atleast one shoulder! Tends to stop them in there tracks or greatly reduces there run off distance -just my two cents!

huntswithdogs · « **Reply #22 on:** November 26, 2010, 09:43:47 AM »

Drilling,
You don't by chance live in Va do ya? I "lost" one the other nite shot in about the same place with my 243. I've had this rifle for about 28 yrs and it's the first time I've had a deer not fall within sight. I'm using the HornadyBTSps for the first time and think this is what happened...no exit. I've been using the Hornady RNs, for a number of years, with pass thrus on all the deer I've shot. Good blood trail from all and not too much meat loss.
When I can find some more of the RN bullets I'll buy as many as I can afford.

HWD

Ron/Pa. · « **Reply #23 on:** November 26, 2010, 12:20:53 PM »

I`ve heard nothing but good on using the RN bullets. All said accuracy was good and a definite Deer stopper.....

cwlongshot · « **Reply #24 on:** November 26, 2010, 12:45:40 PM »

Fancy this..

just yesterday I learned the buck my buddie shoot last Saturday wasn't shot with my Hornady RN hand load. (Usually always shoots one of my loads.) It was shot with a factory 100Gr Rem Core Lokt. Guess what.. It didn't exit and there was little to none for a blood trail. BUT the buck traveled about 25 yards and never left his site after the shot. Bullet went thru the shoulder blade, entered the lungs and broke the off side leg bone and stopped in two pieces just under the hide on the off side. Range, about 60 yards, almost perfect broad side. the deer was a pretty good one one for us, 178lbs dressed.

CW

Dave in WV · « **Reply #25 on:** November 26, 2010, 04:13:36 PM »

I've never recovered a 100 Corelokt. My son has recovered two and they were a perfect mushroom shape. The deer never went far enough for the need of a blood trail. My son's second deer was a 4 pt. shot at about 50 yards and it left a blood trail in the 20' half circle it ran.

saddlebum · « **Reply #26 on:** November 27, 2010, 12:30:26 AM »

It was a long time ago so it's hard to say for sure about the distance, but I accidentally shot two antelope with one 100gr Nosler Solid Base bullet at no more than 75yds. Goat #1 took it in the heart and went straight down. Goat #2 got her spine cut in two at the shoulder leaving a chunk about the size of my fist missing from her back. They were standing about 10 or 15ft apart.
I have never not had an exit wound in a Mule Deer or Antelope using a .243 with the Solid Base or Sierra 100gr Game Kings. The .243 is all I have used for those two critters for the last 20yrs or so. I quit using the SB bullet because of too much blood shot mess on the exit side. And they quit making them.

As I mentioned in a post the other day, the last muley I shot with the Nosler bullet I hit high in the lungs. It was the only one I have ever had run after the shot. It ran hard for maybe 75 or 100yds and piled up. It had a large exit hole and was shooting blood out of it about 10 or 15ft onto the snow just before it fell dead. As I said the other day, usually they just hop around a little before they drop. Or they just drop.

Possibly the velocity at 60 or 70yds was too much for the Core-Lokts. Especially if you hit a rib or something.

Snowshoe · « **Reply #27 on:** November 27, 2010, 06:31:16 AM »

I know a family that has 3 BLR .243, and they shoot whitetails with them evry year. They hand load Sierra 100 BTSP's to about 2750 fps, and have no problem at all killing deer. I have hunted with them many times, and had no problem finding blood trails in the snow. If you want a blood trail a blind man can fallow, use a .45-70 and a 405g flat nose bullet, it makes them leak big time.

nomosendero · « **Reply #28 on:** November 27, 2010, 06:37:22 AM »

CW, I like that rack, good mass & character.

SwampYankee · « **Reply #29 on:** December 07, 2010, 01:59:09 PM »

I bought a 6mm rem years ago for my children to use. My neighbor had a Rem model 660 that was death on deer and even two cow moose YIKES. I being a nervous fellow loaded up a load with the 100 gr Nosler Partition and watched two of my boys easily slay every deer that got within 300 yards. They only stopped one bullet from a quartering away shoot. Blood trails were ok but not really needed.
Well last year I was reading all the raving on the 85 gr Barnes TSX and loaded some up with Reloader 19 and they shot very fine. But no chance to use them. This year I took it one afternoon and shot a 3 point at 110-120 yards high in the lungs no spine touched. He reared up and fell on his back DRT! He had a .24 entry and 1/2 exit but, there was blood 5-6 feet up in a tree behind him. One deer is hardly a test but I am willing to do more testing.
I have shot a few deer and remember some off hand 1 with a 180gr 308 win through the heart and two shot with a 30-06 165 gr hit through the lungs, and several 50cal round ball that left no blood trail.
The day I shot the deer with the 308 there was snow and no blood, the deer had no heart left, my Dad said no pump no blood!