Author Topic: neodymium, ever heard of it.  (Read 700 times)

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Offline S.S.

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neodymium, ever heard of it.
« on: November 24, 2010, 09:07:16 AM »
It is a rare earth metal used in the production of powerful magnets.
it is critical in the production of small electronic devices.
Cell phones, computer hard drives etc. Seems it comes from China..
and they may be about to stop exporting it. Think about the impact of this
to the modern mobile society America has become. Seems those little
fellows have us by the stones at every turn. >:(
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
"A wise man does not pee against the wind".

Offline lakota

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Re: neodymium, ever heard of it.
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2010, 09:11:28 AM »
I survived without phones and pagers for the first 28 years of my life. If I hadnt got married to a woman who loves electronics and insisted I carry a cell phone I expect I would still be " cell phoneless" Its only been 11 years I expect I could go back to the pre cell phone days. Let them keep their rare dirt.
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Offline Conan The Librarian

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Re: neodymium, ever heard of it.
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2010, 09:14:26 AM »
Don't blame the Chinese. They're the ones competing successfully and we're the ones that are becoming less competitive. I admire the Chinese because they have direct clear policies that help their nation. Can't say that about us lately.

Offline Conan The Librarian

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Re: neodymium, ever heard of it.
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2010, 09:30:46 AM »
By the way, we can live without neodynimium because the we have other alternatives for magnet making. The minerals like lithium that are used for high tech batteries are more of a worry. The US can never catch up in battery technology. Everybody else on earth has beaten us to it, especially the Chinese.

Offline MGMorden

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Re: neodymium, ever heard of it.
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2010, 09:44:09 AM »
The US has rare-earth mineral mines that we closed down long ago due to it being cheaper at the time to just buy stuff from China instead of mine it ourselves.  If need be, we could reopen those mines.  This would only be a bump in the road - possibly a good one.  It may well bring jobs (both mining and manufacturing) back into the country instead of China. 

Offline Pat/Rick

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Re: neodymium, ever heard of it.
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2010, 11:27:30 AM »
Plenty of lithium in Bolivia. They just need somebody to come in to develop the facilities to extract it. Unlike the claim that there is lithium in Afghanistan that needs developed from phase one to extract, we wouldn't be battling 13th century fundamentalist to get it. China has contracts with a few nations in east africa for mining. With all of the natural resources they are stockpiling, and the output of three gorges dam, their production capabilities should be unmatched in a few years. Chinas playing chess, others are playing checkers. Didn't Japan do the same thing in the twenties and thirties??

Offline S.S.

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Re: neodymium, ever heard of it.
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2010, 02:01:21 PM »
At the moment, there is no viable substitute for this metal.
Lithium is for Batteries, not magnets. Ferrite magnets will not
Suffice for computer hard drive use, they are not powerful enough.
This would have ripple effects through everything from cell phones to
Electronics that guide our military weapon systems.
At least there are some substitutes for the making of batteries.
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
"A wise man does not pee against the wind".

Offline MGMorden

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Re: neodymium, ever heard of it.
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2010, 03:11:56 PM »
Suffice for computer hard drive use, they are not powerful enough.

Bright side to that point: solid state drives which use a non-magnetic medium are becoming cheaper and hence more popular.  They're typically lower in capacity and more expensive than magnetic hard disks, but they are much faster and use less power.  Over time the technology has been improving to the point where some laptops are available with it.  The original Macbook Air for example had it as an option, and the new version of the Macbook Air is solid-state only.  Also, pretty much ALL of the storage used on cell phones and digital cameras is solid-state.

It's still not quite to parity - a 1500 GB magnetic drive can be had for $60-70 whilst a 64 GB solid state will run you $100 (and bigger sizes go up in price fast), but it's to the level where it's usable and at usable prices.  Most basic users that I'm aware of don't use more than 30-40 GB anyways.  On the other hand a few heavy users can use up thousands of GB (I'm at around 8000-9000 used myself on my system), and magnetic is still the only option there.  I'm sure solid state will continue to improve though.

Either way though: as I said - the US had mines for this type of material at one time that we closed b/c it was cheaper to just buy the mats of the Chinese.  If they won't sell it, then we can start mining it ourselves again.

Offline subdjoe

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Re: neodymium, ever heard of it.
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2010, 05:05:02 PM »
The Mountain Pass Mine should be reopened next year, I think.  That is, if the Greens don't keep it shut down.  But, it is a rare earths mine in CA. 
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Offline torpedoman

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Re: neodymium, ever heard of it.
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2010, 05:06:45 PM »
Rare earth minerals are not rare, they are everywhere, called rare earth because they don't come in veins or seams but are scattered about and much earth must be moved and refined to gather them up.
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Offline JustaShooter

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Re: neodymium, ever heard of it.
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2010, 03:59:54 AM »
Rare earth minerals are not rare, they are everywhere, called rare earth because they don't come in veins or seams but are scattered about and much earth must be moved and refined to gather them up.

Exactly right.  There are a number of places in the US, Europe, Australia and other places that could each produce 20% or more of the world's needs for rare earths.  In fact, a lot of waste from other mining operations are lanthanides (chemist's term for rare earths) - remember that toxic red sludge that burst out of the holding tank in Hungary a few weeks back?  Full of lanthanides among other things. The problem is really the extraction and separation of the lanthanides once you've mined them.  Because of their chemical similarity there is no easy way to do this.  It is a horribly labor intensive, dangerous and polluting process right now - exactly the sort of thing the Chinese are willing to do, and reasonably good at.

Fortunately, since China showed their hand and got people thinking, there are now a bunch of smart people looking for better ways to handle the extraction and separation of the lanthanides.  So, even if China does hold out on the rest of the world, the rest of the world can take up the slack.  Sure, there will be a few bumps for the first few years but ultimately the end results might actually be a good thing.

Just a Shooter (who paid attention in Chemistry class)
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Offline magooch

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Re: neodymium, ever heard of it.
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2010, 06:14:47 AM »
Why would the Chinese cut us off of rare dirt; they're certainly willing to sell everything else?
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Offline JustaShooter

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Re: neodymium, ever heard of it.
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2010, 01:53:11 PM »
Why would the Chinese cut us off of rare dirt; they're certainly willing to sell everything else?

They want to hold on to the raw material and only sell the finished product - lots more money in that, it keeps all of the manufacturing, distribution, etc. in their country.

Just a Shooter
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Offline S.S.

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Re: neodymium, ever heard of it.
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2010, 04:18:24 PM »
Future Leverage
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
"A wise man does not pee against the wind".

Offline williamlayton

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Re: neodymium, ever heard of it.
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2010, 12:40:20 AM »
Appears to be good business. U.S. should do some of this.
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Offline JustaShooter

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Re: neodymium, ever heard of it.
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2010, 03:50:42 PM »
Appears to be good business. U.S. should do some of this.
Blessings

+1 Bill.

Exporting finished goods is always better from an economic standpoint than exporting raw materials.

Just a Shooter
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Anything I post in these forums is my personal opinion formed by my own interpretation of the topic.
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