Author Topic: aetheist billboard.  (Read 5078 times)

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Offline Buckhammer74

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Re: aetheist billboard.
« Reply #90 on: December 03, 2010, 01:59:37 AM »
Once again William,

I ask you, what is the truth?  What is fact?

Offline ironglow

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Re: aetheist billboard.
« Reply #91 on: December 03, 2010, 02:07:06 AM »
  Matt said;
  Ever stop to think that there are people out there who do not need or want what religions offer? Are they not allowed to form a community or network amongst themselves? Also it is a myth, it can not be proven and did not even become a holiday until the mid to late 1800's.

 Matt;
  I fully realize there are folks who do not want what Christianity has to offer, and it is their exercize of "free will" which allows them to either accept or reject...just as it is within our free will to accept or reject what atheism purports to offer (as evidenced by the billboard in question). As far as I know, nobody is refused the right to network amongst themselves, save for the possible exception of Christians who have traditionally "networked" at football games, graduations and other special events but are suddenly being attacked for doing so. ;) :D
   Your 'myth and holiday' statement I do not understand, since I haven't mentioned anything about holidays in this thread. As far as the Christmas holiday, most studious Christians do not view 12/25 as Christ's birthday. We would be more likely to opt for a late October date. The tinfoil and trinkets are more for the kids..
 
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline ironglow

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Re: aetheist billboard.
« Reply #92 on: December 03, 2010, 02:18:16 AM »
The irony here is that the atheist billboard specifically targeted the Christian faith, .....
Nope, it targeted atheists who didn't know there was an atheist.org web site.  It probably succeded beyond their wildest dreams due to POed Christians who posted it all over the Internet.

    JUNIOR, JUNIOR, JUNIOR;

  Succeeded ?   I could tell you about a fellow I heard of who succeeded way beyond what he expected. He was a farmer and he even had to build new barns to house his abundant grain harvest. He gathered it all in to himself... "get all you can, can all you get..then sit on the lid"  :D ;D.   The very next day he physically died. Would you wonder why he acted as he did, and how he did after physical death ?   
     Coinsider this:  If you are correct and we both died tomorrow morning...I guess we would both simply would cease to exist...but just suppose for a moment, if Christians are right... ;)
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Tommyt

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Re: aetheist billboard.
« Reply #93 on: December 03, 2010, 03:14:41 AM »


It is a Holiday that has been Part of our American Heritage from about 1492...



Careful... Do a little research before you start fabricating dates
Quote
http://www.shalomjerusalem.com/heritage/heritage2.html
Wednesday, Dec. 12th... A large cross was set up at the entrance of the harbour, upon a beautiful spot upon the western side, "as an indication" in the words of the Admiral, "that your Highnesses possess the country, and principally for a token of Jesus Christ our Lord, and the honour of Christianity."

Columbus often gives thanks to God for good weather and providentially arranging the voyage and watching over him

I copied a Piece of the First article I found when I put His name in
I also will leave this thread, not for the above,but I feel its going way South
Its the Season ,I like Peace ;)
Y'all have Fun with it.

Tommyt

Offline MGMorden

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Re: aetheist billboard.
« Reply #94 on: December 03, 2010, 03:22:18 AM »
     Coinsider this:  If you are correct and we both died tomorrow morning...I guess we would both simply would cease to exist...but just suppose for a moment, if Christians are right... ;)

Or suppose that the Bhuddists are right.  Then I guess we're BOTH going to Bhudda-hell ;).  It's not a matter of either-or.  The choices aren't atheism or Christianity.  It's one set of superstitious beliefs or another. Or none. 

As to it "offering" all the hope and caring and yadda-yadda (come to think of it, I think "yada yada" is from Hebrew . . .): that is of far less importance to many people than the truth.

Consider a child's belief in Santa Claus.  To the child who believes, the world is full of magic.  A very nice old man in a red suit watches you all year to make sure you're being good.  For the good boys and girls, his personal elven toy-makers diligently work countless hours all year hand-crafting the perfect toys for you.  Then at the end of the year on a magical night the jolly old man visits each and every one of these good children, eats their milk and cookies, and leaves them their treasures.

It's a wonderful story full of hope and magic.  It's also a lie.  As cool as it might be if it WERE true, there is no little man in a red suit coming down your chimney.  What it is though is a good way to make the children behave throughout the year, just as in simpler times various religions were a good way to keep people from killing or stealing from each other.  You tell them they're going to hell if they do it and by Jove, they'll behave.  It was, is, and will always be about control. 

Fortunately for children, when they get old enough to realize how little sense the story makes, they can wait up and prove that it was indeed their mom who put the presents under the tree.  The original knowledge of most religions being false (and everyone agrees that most of them are false - even the religious only believe in one and think it's all the others that are just made up non-sense . . .) just happened to be lost throughout the ages.

Heck much as I can't stand Scientology, you have to admire L Ron Hubbard to some degree.  He was a science fiction author who truly understood how religions work.  He basically made a bet with another author that he could write a "bible" and start a religion within his lifetime.  Thus, the book Dianetics was born, and along with it the religion Scientology.  The book is a work of fiction written WITHIN THE LAST CENTURY, and yet they're still managing to convince people that it's true and to join their religion.  From the outside looking in you can see how foolish they are.  The trick is to truly be looking from the outside, and not just peering into one padded cell from another.

Offline powderman

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Re: aetheist billboard.
« Reply #95 on: December 03, 2010, 04:11:51 AM »
MATT. I'm tickled to death that you have allowed this discussion, all starting from an aetheist billboard. Thanks to the aetheists a lot of views and information has been exchanged and hopefully reach someone reading here and maybe not even posting.
Dec 25 is the day Christians have set aside to honor the birth of Jesus Christ, none of us know the exact date or time but the important thing is that we make the ONE day a year to celebrate and honor his birth.
The proof  you and others seek cannot be shown on paper, is not visible to the naked eye, and theres no link as some  always demand. It is accepting Jesus as Lord and Saviour. Then and only then can anybody feel Jesus in their heart. It's a feeling that only comes to Christians after accepting him and repenting of our sins. Then and only then can people truly know what we feel, and why we want to pass that joy on to others, and feel badly for those going the wrong way.
I haven't seen my neices since late Sept at the reunion. We had a great time and we did discuss their cult. One has since decided that she does not like islam and asked for christian prayer, the other is weak minded and easily influenced, which is the type of people muslims prey on.
There have been some excellent posts here by Christians who are much better at words than I, and I applaud them. I hope you allow this discussion to continue. Charlie.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: aetheist billboard.
« Reply #96 on: December 03, 2010, 04:41:04 AM »
Matt
You present a great contridiction in your thoughts.
Who gave you the right to choose.
Why are you as adamant that there is no proof and in the same voice try and convince that there is no truth.
Truth is. It exhist. It is a fact- Truth is, even by Athesitic standards exhist.
To know the truth is what it is all about.
God is not a reasonable God---If you attempt to reason God you put Him in your own falliable box.
Truth does not exhist in a box.
God is beyond reasaonable/resonability.
Atheism is denial based on inability to reason. And, you are correct--it is a reasoned faith without basis for reasoning.
Reasoning must need to be based on truth.
Blessing.

William,
As Matt stated, there is no proof either way. Please explain your thoughts on what is true and how it is fact.

The short ansewer is its based on FAITH ! either you have it or you don't . You can touch it no more than you can touch the love in your heart but you know it exist .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline powderman

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Re: aetheist billboard.
« Reply #97 on: December 03, 2010, 05:08:48 AM »
A former Pastor said he used to work with a few aetheists and they ragged him pretty hard. They would ask, what if when you die you find there is no Heaven or hell??? He'd smile and say, then I have lost nothing, IF, on the other hand you die and find out I am right, you will have lost it all. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: aetheist billboard.
« Reply #98 on: December 03, 2010, 05:13:38 AM »
"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" 

Offline MGMorden

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Re: aetheist billboard.
« Reply #99 on: December 03, 2010, 05:29:16 AM »
A former Pastor said he used to work with a few aetheists and they ragged him pretty hard. They would ask, what if when you die you find there is no Heaven or hell??? He'd smile and say, then I have lost nothing, IF, on the other hand you die and find out I am right, you will have lost it all. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

To which I reiterate my reply above in a simpler fashion. This situation isn't boolean.  It's not like taking out an insurance policy, where you're either covered or you're not.  There are numerous competing religions.  Almost all of them, in some fashion or another, proclaim that you're going to hell (or will be punished in some way) if you believe any of the other ones (or don't believe at all). 

Once you've made-up your mind that you want to believe, it's not like you're "covered" - you THEN have to make sure your religion is the "right" one (and with countless religions around the world, you're certainly not playing a table with good odds), otherwise you're going to be punished anyways.

Or lets say that there's two dozen religions in the world (there are FAR more than that, but lets just use that).  From a non-biased perspective, any of them are just as likely to be right as the other, so lets assume equal chances.

A Christian has an 92% chance of being punished for eternity (afterall, all but 2 of those options say they're going to be punished - only the scenarios of no-deity existing afterall and Christianity being true are going to end up with you coming out ok).
A Athiest's odds inch up to 96%. 

Not that big of a difference, particularly when in the eyes of the later all the others make about as much sense as keeping a keen eye out at night JUST IN CASE THE BOOGEYMAN REALLY DOES EXIST ;).


Offline Buckhammer74

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Re: aetheist billboard.
« Reply #100 on: December 03, 2010, 05:55:51 AM »
If I have faith that Bigfoot exists, does that make his exsistance truth and fact?

Offline Cabin4

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Re: aetheist billboard.
« Reply #101 on: December 03, 2010, 06:38:06 AM »
If I have faith that Bigfoot exists, does that make his exsistance truth and fact?

They don't call it "faith" for nothing......there is a "leap of faith" in all religions and there is a "leap of faith" for those who have no religion. That is a fact that cannot be disputed.
Avery Hayden Wallace
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Offline powderman

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Re: aetheist billboard.
« Reply #102 on: December 03, 2010, 07:19:03 AM »
Quote
Or lets say that there's two dozen religions in the world (there are FAR more than that, but lets just use that).  From a non-biased perspective, any of them are just as likely to be right as the other, so lets assume equal chances.




MGM. The difference is that Christians have Jesus Christ, none of the others do. What Christians have is a very much alive, risen Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ in Heaven. What muslims have is a false dead prophet in hell. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline briarpatch

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Re: aetheist billboard.
« Reply #103 on: December 03, 2010, 07:20:50 AM »
 MGMORDEN QUOTE

What it is though is a good way to make the children behave throughout the year, just as in simpler times various religions were a good way to keep people from killing or stealing from each other.  You tell them they're going to hell if they do it and by Jove, they'll behave.  It was, is, and will always be about control.  

May I ask? what did you mean by the statement? as in simpler times     Did man think different, have different ideas, desires, needs, wants, than man does now?
Also are you suggesting that if the world had all been atheist, as in simpler times, they would have destroyed each other because they had no desire to do good or right. No direction so to speak?  
I think me and you will agree it is a good thing someone saw what was happening and throwed the God thing out there. You know, took control.
Do you think it might be a good idea to keep telling others there is a God to keep men from killing each other? It may not happen in  this day and age, if we all become atheist. But, Just in case?
Men without their God, can do some bad things.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: aetheist billboard.
« Reply #104 on: December 03, 2010, 07:24:07 AM »
If I have faith that Bigfoot exists, does that make his exsistance truth and fact?
Bad question really because not having faith dosen't mean he dosen't exist. Now if you said you talked to some who saw one or you yourself saw evidence of what may be one and gained your faith from that it would make it true and fact to you would it not ? Much like some praying and seeing it ansewered .
I live in Va. and over 30 years ago saw a moutian lion . It was fact to me and those with me but the state and most folks maintained they were not here . Since I have seen at least 2 more and so have many others and the state admits there are some . To have faith in God you must have faith in yourself.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline gypsyman

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Re: aetheist billboard.
« Reply #105 on: December 03, 2010, 07:52:25 AM »
Well, my opinion, for what it's worth, let them spend the money. Keep the billboard company and employees working. For what it's worth, as I spend alot of time on the road, billboards are a waste of time and money along expressway's/turnpikes, and freeway's. At 60-70mph, how many people actually read them. Only if it's a half naked woman does anybody look.
The only time I actually pay attention is when I might be at a stop sign or stop light, to busy keeping my eye's on the road.
The reporter stated it was along 495 and Kennedy Blvd., sounds like a busy freeway. I'll bet 90% or better of the drivers take a quick look and think it's for a church. In the mean time, I'll keep believing and praying. gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline MGMorden

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Re: aetheist billboard.
« Reply #106 on: December 03, 2010, 07:55:56 AM »
MGM. The difference is that Christians have Jesus Christ, none of the others do. What Christians have is a very much alive, risen Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ in Heaven. What muslims have is a false dead prophet in hell. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D

Circular logic there.  You're using aspects of your own religion to claim it's superiority or correctness.

It'd like asking a group of anti-gunners why they believe guns are evil, and they then provide you with a quote from Dianne Feinstein that says "Guns are evil." and them shouting "See, I told you so!".  A hypothesis cannot be proven by assuming that part of it is already correct (ie, circular logic). 

Every one of the others is claiming that THEY have some mystical figure that everyone else lacks.  Pointing to their own religious texts as proof does nothing.

Quote from: briarpatch
May I ask? what did you mean by the statement? as in simpler times     Did man think different, have different ideas, desires, needs, wants, than man does now?
Also are you suggesting that if the world had all been atheist, as in simpler times, they would have destroyed each other because they had no desire to do good or right. No direction so to speak?

Man most certainly did think different, and have different ideas back then.  In earlier times the populace at large was much MUCH less educated than it is today.  Look at literacy rates of the time for example.  With knowledge comes civility.  Look at crime rates today for example.  Crime level is much higher in less educated and poorer areas.  There were also far less sophisticated methods of law enforcement back then.  Today the the real prospect of prison has taken the place of the imaginary hell.

Essentially, much earlier in our history man was much less civilized.  In a way, our species has grown up, much as a child grows up.  We no longer need scary bedtime stories in order to behave, and in many ways until we accept that those stories were just that - stories - our development will be stunted in the long term.  The tales had their purpose for a time.  We no longer need them though.

Offline Junior1942

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Re: aetheist billboard.
« Reply #107 on: December 03, 2010, 08:13:26 AM »
The irony here is that the atheist billboard specifically targeted the Christian faith, .....
Nope, it targeted atheists who didn't know there was an atheist.org web site.  It probably succeded beyond their wildest dreams due to POed Christians who posted it all over the Internet.

    JUNIOR, JUNIOR, JUNIOR;

  Succeeded ?   I could tell you about a fellow I heard of who succeeded way beyond what he expected. He was a farmer and he even had to build new barns to house his abundant grain harvest. He gathered it all in to himself... "get all you can, can all you get..then sit on the lid"  :D ;D.   The very next day he physically died. Would you wonder why he acted as he did, and how he did after physical death ?   
     Coinsider this:  If you are correct and we both died tomorrow morning...I guess we would both simply would cease to exist...but just suppose for a moment, if Christians are right... ;)
My religious beliefs had zilch to do with my post.  I simply pointed out the fact that POed Christians aided the atheist cause, and, therefore, aided the devil.  Multiplied millions more people saw the billboard on the Internet vs the people who saw the billboard alongside the highway.

Offline Matt

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Re: aetheist billboard.
« Reply #108 on: December 03, 2010, 09:28:41 AM »
If I have faith that Bigfoot exists, does that make his exsistance truth and fact?

They don't call it "faith" for nothing......there is a "leap of faith" in all religions and there is a "leap of faith" for those who have no religion. That is a fact that cannot be disputed.

Thank You.... This is my whole point... it is EACH PERSONS own faith and I feel that each person should be able to come to their own conclusions about God.

I have now been told that I am intolerant of others because I do not want people using bible quotes to prove themselves right. I feel that bible verses prove nothing but others feel differently so fine quote all the scripture you want from your religion what ever it may be. All will be allowed in this discussion so I don't come off as intolerant but understand that means ALL RELIGIOUS BOOKS ARE ALLOWED to include but not limited to: The Analects, Bhagavad Gita, Five Classics, Koran, New Testament, Old Testament, Talmud, Tao-te-ching, Upanishads and the Veda. Any scripture from these books will be allowed in this thread to prevent anyone from saying that they are being censored.

Let me try to explain why I did not want scripture quoted. I feel that because religion is a matter of faith the scripture from each of them is only relevant to those who follow it. I fully understand that many of the religions rely on scripture to win new converts or bring people to or back to their side. But also feel that when it is used to tell another that if they do not believe that they are going to go to hell or what ever it is for that religion then at that point the scripture becomes almost terroristic. Let me explain, by telling someone that if they do not follow a certain belief they will be cursed in the afterlife you are using fear to your advantage and in fact terror. Now on someone who does not care if they "Die and go to hell" this tactic does not work nor will it work on someone passionate about their own faith. Now the flip side of that would be to talk about what you gain by following a given religion such as eternal life, 72 virgins or what ever the case is. Now rather than feeding on fear you feed on desire be it greed or simply a desire to better ones self. No matter what it is it's still a desire to have what you don't already (I do have a small issue with some methods used in this but that is for a later discussion). So in the simplest form using scripture the way 99% of the people do you are either terrorizing people to follow or you are bribing them to follow but in both cases the person is not allowed to find their own way to what they know as the truth. I understand that it is part of many religions to convert and some even add a convert or die ultimatum and though I don't agree with it I understand it.

Seeking the truth: This is what each of us who believe in a God or Gods are doing and I think that it is the only time you can have a situation where totally opposite or opposing beliefs can be the "Truth". Now before anyone gets bent out of shape let me explain, for powderman Christianity is the truth, but for say an Imam Islam is the truth and for a Rabbi Judaism is the truth and so on. When it comes to religion the fact is that you can have multiple and opposing truths as in the end it is a matter of faith and what is true for you may not be true for the next person.

I encourage everyone to find their own truth what ever it may be but the line is drawn when you attack others for not sharing your truth.

I do not think that I have attacked anyone and though I have been hard on pman a little but I always am, and I think if you ask him he will also tell you that I have been equally nice and have helped him.

If I offended anyone by asking that we let others make up their own mind as to what the truth is, then I apologize as that was not my intentions as I simply wish people could respect others beliefs when it comes to religion. I know that sounds hypocritical but it is not as I am not trying to push any belief or non-belief on anyone... I am simply saying it is not my place to judge what other believe nor am I responsible for them in the afterlife so it matters not to me how they believe.

If I offended anyone by telling you I wanted you to refrain from using scripture then I apologize as I understand now that by doing so I am taking away your ability to debate the subject and this is unfair to you.

Matt

Any fool can know. The point is to understand.”
― Albert Einstein

Offline Matt

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Re: aetheist billboard.
« Reply #109 on: December 03, 2010, 09:43:53 AM »
Quote
Matt
You present a great contridiction in your thoughts.
Who gave you the right to choose.
My Creator.

Quote
Why are you as adamant that there is no proof and in the same voice try and convince that there is no truth.
Because there is no proof one way or the other and I have said that there are multiple truths.


Quote
Truth is. It exhist. It is a fact- Truth is, even by Athesitic standards exhist.
To know the truth is what it is all about.
Now who is playing decider of what is truth?

Quote
God is not a reasonable God---If you attempt to reason God you put Him in your own falliable box.
And for you this is truth, but not for me and many others.

Quote
Truth does not exhist in a box.
Your right it exists in each persons heart/soul or what ever you wish to call it.
 
God is beyond reasaonable/resonability.
?

Quote
Atheism is denial based on inability to reason. And, you are correct--it is a reasoned faith without basis for reasoning.
Who was it that decided it it your place to judge?

Quote
Reasoning must need to be based on truth.
I disagree in this case, the reasoning is based on the truth in a persons faith in what they feel is the truth.

Matt
Any fool can know. The point is to understand.”
― Albert Einstein

Offline Matt

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Re: aetheist billboard.
« Reply #110 on: December 03, 2010, 10:15:35 AM »
Matt, not following how you could continue to foster and grow a discussion on religious tolerance/intolerance and set the rules as no scripture. For those that are religious, scripture is the basis of belief - whatever scripture they use. So essentially you're saying that we can only have the conversation from the atheist perspective (i.e. no scripture). That's not a discussion at all, merely a re-framing of the argument to conform to your own particular view.
So noted and restrictions removed

I find no truth in bashing a faith or lack of faith on the basis of the actions of its followers. In rhetoric/logic/philosophy that's called an ad hominim, or attack on the person. I may have bounced a check once or twice in my life, but the rules of math are still valid, and I'm not disqualified from teaching them to my children. Truth is truth, regardless of whose grubby paws are holding it, so rather than debating the intolerance of the practitioners of a faith, how about we discuss the intolerance of the faith itself as revealed by its foundational writings? Oh wait, that's off limits. Seriously, what do you hope to accomplish here besides silencing opposition?

My intentions were never to silence anyone as I stated in a previous reply and yes lets talk religions not people, but wait... is it not the people of the religion who are doing the acts in the name of the religion as guided by the religion?

The irony here is that the atheist billboard specifically targeted the Christian faith, YES IT DID

as if the atheist position has no message other than an anti-message. I am not one so I cant say but I would think it is the same truth to them as any other religions truth would be to its practitioners.

And their justification for doing so is on the basis of historical human suffering in the name of a faith? Again I do not know why they did it but can you argue that there has not been "historical human suffering in the name of a faith".


As if no atheist in the history of mankind has ever done anything wrong? who said this or was it implied... if so its wrong as every group has its good/bad people in it.


Really, practitioners of atheism hold a perfect ethical high ground? again who said this?


That'd be a ludicrous claim, Yes it would

and I wouldn't think any would have the audacity to say as much. some do from all religions / non-religions


It appears the atheist cosmology is simply that anyone who thinks there is a God is unreasonable, Ok, does that hurt you in some way?

or more accurately irrational, and prone to violence. ok and lets look at the violence
 in the world that stems from religion... all of them...


At its essence, atheism cannot exist without theists to oppose ... lexically 'a'-'theism' = against a belief in God. ok again why do I care if people do not believe in God... its their prerogative. 


Not a belief in something else, just an opposition to an idea. I disagree to a point but ok

So I am supposed to believe that a world view founded on the principle of opposition is logically and ethically superior to a world view that is founded on the principle of the existence of God? 6 of one half a dozen of another I do not see any of them as being "superior"


Your worldview couldn't exist without mine, Really? my opinion that it is each persons right to come to God in their own manner can not exist without your
belief in God.  hows that?



so merely on the basis of an a priori principle, the atheist is left only to attempt to disprove the causal argument with no actual statement of their own.
ok

In the free marketplace of ideas, truth will out, so billboards don't worry me at all, and atheists in general represent no threat to my security. Of course, you can't have a free marketplace of ideas if one idea is not allowed to be expressed, so if the atheist agenda is to silence theists, then a line has been crossed.

I agree and thus the reason for removing the restriction as I said before.

Matt
Any fool can know. The point is to understand.”
― Albert Einstein

Offline williamlayton

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Re: aetheist billboard.
« Reply #111 on: December 03, 2010, 10:54:27 AM »
Faith in Christ is not a reasoned faith--learned/earned/determined.
It is a knowing--apart from yourownself determination---a revealing of the truth which cannot be denied--impossible to deny.
You/we/me are not involved--it is a gift.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Mohawk

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Re: aetheist billboard.
« Reply #112 on: December 03, 2010, 11:23:27 AM »
First Amendment yes. Let them post what they want. Patriots fought to establish a freedom of believing what they want to believe. Not a sub-christian nation. Jesus says do not judge lest they be judged, correct? Is not a muslim ad condemnation judging? We, as Christians, are supposed to spread the word not enforce compliance. I too have worked a Jewish event in the US where the Israel flag wad hoisted, no American flag. Yes I was taken back but understood that was their right. They were Jewish Americans excercising their rights.   My thing is don't be Godly if you are not. If you are a patriot at least read the Constitution you are defending. You are not defending the Southern Baptist Convention but a nation that you are a citizen of. You serve ALL of it not part of it.

Offline Buckhammer74

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Re: aetheist billboard.
« Reply #113 on: December 03, 2010, 12:59:42 PM »
Faith in Christ is not a reasoned faith--learned/earned/determined.
It is a knowing--apart from yourownself determination---a revealing of the truth which cannot be denied--impossible to deny.
You/we/me are not involved--it is a gift.
Blessings

What do you mean by faith in Christ? I definately believe that he once walked this earth. There is way too much documentation to believe otherwise. I am not saying he turned water into wine and all that nonsense, but I definately believe he was a flesh and blood human being.

I disagree that faith in Christ is not learned.
If you are raised in a family that attends church and follows Christian ways are you not learning to be a christian yourself?

Likewise if you are raised in a home where Islam is  followed, are you not learning to become a Muslim?

Offline powderman

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Re: aetheist billboard.
« Reply #114 on: December 03, 2010, 03:31:28 PM »
Quote
I do not think that I have attacked anyone and though I have been hard on pman a little but I always am, and I think if you ask him he will also tell you that I have been equally nice and have helped him.




MATT. Nobody has to ask, I'll tell them, you HAVE been a big help to me in several different ways, and I'm truly grateful. Charlie.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline teamnelson

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Re: aetheist billboard.
« Reply #115 on: December 03, 2010, 04:06:31 PM »
Jesus says do not judge lest they be judged, correct?

Actually, Jesus said, "Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you."
Scratching deeper, you'll find in the koine greek the first sentence includes the idea of "manner of judgment." Not just the fact of judgment. Which is why the second sentence elaborates the point ... the simple act of judgment (determining right from wrong, good from bad, discernment, etc.) is not off limits to Christians. The warning here is not exercise judgment towards others unless you yourself are willing to be subject to the same manner or measure of judgment. This is a very important distinction, and one very often misquoted and misapplied.

The Christian is called to be a judge of themselves first, and of fellow Christians in the body of Christ specifically with an eye to restore that one. Also to be a judge of society with an eye to influence their community towards that which is right and godly. That modern usage has added condemnation to the word judgment is a sad statement; will the Judges on the panel for the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals be casting condemnation in their decision on Prop 8, or merely determining truth? We're all hoping that they JUDGE appropriately, and determine truth. We're a sad civilization that we've become so thin skinned we can't handle someone looking at our actions or speech to determine truth without getting our feelings hurt. So for the Christian, the call is to determine truth, and to submit themselves to the same level of judgment they apply to others. If they're not willing to do that, then don't do it.

This is specifically why I expect that the same rules a non-Christian would see enforced on Christians, they would also apply to themselves, and vice versa. Again, free marketplace of ideas - all ideas are spoken, best ideas win. And we can all JUDGE those ideas on their own merits.

held fast

Offline goofyoldfart

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Re: aetheist billboard.
« Reply #116 on: December 03, 2010, 08:11:57 PM »
Ok, here we go again. first---I want to say to Matt, thank you for changing your ruling on Scripture-- you are perfectly correct in stating that if one, then all. thank you. I need opinions to come to conviction in defining direction.

to TeamNelson: thank you for quoting the judgment quote in full w/ clarification. appreciate that.

to all the rest: been one heck of a lulu of opinion sharing, hasn't it??  :o ::) :D ;D :-\

thrown out for interest?: according to several scientist's, astrologers and Biblical scholars, whom I can no longer remember where or when I read it, they think that Christ was born around (what would  be in our calendar) 9 / 11 of that year. Christmas was picked by the church to incorporate the "pagans" belief of the rebirth of the earth due to winter rejuvenating to spring......or something along those lines. you know, in order to keep things neat, orderly and in total control. plus that it gave another celebration to keep the masses happy without POing the Pagans. Nice orderly control  ;D  Further thought-----if this were to be true, then was it a coincidence that the WTC was hit on 9/11???  Satan's sense of humor???
Who Knows---Only the Shadow Knows. 

Offline williamlayton

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Re: aetheist billboard.
« Reply #117 on: December 04, 2010, 03:12:27 AM »
Buckhammer
Follow me in this discussion.
Salvation is by faith not works.
Any, ANY works that are required for a faith based knowledge are an earned learning,
If it is by free will--is it not reasoning and you are a participant with God in your salvation.
As long as we are on the subject---is participation not a work---and with this participation are we not able to deny what God has revealed.
I think the scriptures are very clear on this matter--one cannot deny what a gift that is given reveals--it is not a reasoned faith--God is above our reasoning and reasoning God always puts Him in a box.
God is above and far beyound any box that we create.
Trusting in God does not take work, is not learned, it is what it is and wheather or not we try and determine God we are are only showing our inabilities and our shortcomings.
I reasoned God and became so confused that my repenter broke and I was left with only trust in what I know is true---Christ Jesus is who he says He is--purely God, eternal, no creation, was and is at the same monent--and in the end the same--in the same instance.
Now reason that.
If you know, you know and it is undeniable.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline ironglow

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Re: aetheist billboard.
« Reply #118 on: December 04, 2010, 04:23:23 AM »
 Matt;
  Thank you for rescinding the ban. Yes, I am sure there were times when seemingly endless repetition of Scriptures may have tried your patience and we should help by not dragging on endlessly if we can avoid it. ..But thanks, all the same..

   William;
      That is about as good a statement describing faith as one will find. In our finite intellect, we are indeed puny in the sight of almighty God.
  He did give us his "word" however, so we can puzzle it out, but we should keep in mind his infinite intelligence and wisdom.. From Isaiah 55;

      8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
   neither are your ways my ways,”
            declares the LORD.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
   so are my ways higher than your ways
   and my thoughts than your thoughts.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline powderman

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Re: aetheist billboard.
« Reply #119 on: December 05, 2010, 07:12:56 AM »
Seems like the older I get the more my church means to me. I find myself looking through the obits in every paper, wondering what kind of folks these were, wondering if they were Christian or not, wondering if they were saved. We all will come to realize our own mortality one day and each have to deal with it. This thread has shown me that there are indeed Christians and non Christians on this board. The non Christians have not been moved, so be it, your choice. My biggest hope and prayer is that there are some fence sitters out there who may have learned something from all these posts and decided to accept Jesus Christ as lord and Saviour. I judge no man, God will do that, but the non believers will not be able to say, nobody told me. I'm thankful for this board and being allowed to express my opinions, as well as those on both sides of this issue. I know I come on kinda strong at times but thats just me. I only know straight talk, no beating around the bush. I reckon I'll never be accused of being PC. Charlie.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm