Author Topic: 45 ACP/Bullseye, it there anything better? (Read 956 times)

ButlerFord45 · « **on:** December 11, 2003, 03:16:56 PM »

New to reloading the 45 acp, and everything I've found indicates that Bullseye seems to be the best powder going, with 231 being a close second. Does anyone have something better? Used for target, practice, IDPA and around the farm carry. Will be using 230 grain fmj and cast. Has anyone hade any experience with the Lupa powder, Vita something? It's my understanding that this is supposed to be some pretty good stuff as well.
I'm a newby at reloading this cartridge, any and all experiences appreciated

Mikey · « **Reply #1 on:** December 12, 2003, 04:41:16 AM »

ButlerFord45: I prefer WW231 powder. It is a bit slower buring than the Bullseye but in my perspective provides a higher density and fills the case better so that I know I'm not overcharging when I look at my cases before seating the bullets. I've used 231 with fmjs, cast and hps and it works just as well with all. I also find it to be as accurate as Bullseye and when I shot competition with my Gold Cup, my 231 loads would perform just as well as those with Bullseye, and it wasn't as smoky, either.

I like the Vihta-Vhouri-Oy powders a bunch. I forget which ones I use in the 45 acp but what I like about them is that using fmjs, the lighest charge with some of the VV powders brings you right to original milspec velocities (875'/sec) or better. Those powders burn in the Unique through Blue Dot range, and are consistently burning and fairly clean powders. It is some pretty good stuff.

Also, from my old Lyman Manual, a charge of 5.5 gns of Unique is listed as an accuracy load with the fmj and gets you into the 750-770'/sec range. 6.5 grains of the same powder is supposed to get you milspec velocity from a Gov't length bbl. HTH. Mikey.

Graycg · « **Reply #2 on:** December 12, 2003, 05:41:41 AM »

ww231 or hp38, both same thing, great in 45 auto.

Dave in WV · « **Reply #3 on:** December 12, 2003, 05:53:53 AM »

I like Universal Clays. It's much like Unique but cleaner burning. I like having a powder for more than one cartridge. I use this powder in .38,.357, and .44 mag loads as well as .45acp.

grizz · « **Reply #4 on:** December 12, 2003, 12:08:19 PM »

I will give a :agree: for the universal clays..

grizz

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 13, 2003, 01:44:58 AM »

Thank Ya'll!
It looks like this is going to be a three powder endevor. My very first loading attempt was with Unique, and while it did what it said it would do, I felt that is was an awfully dirty burning powder and haven't used it since. If Universal Clays is a "Clean Unique" I'll probably give it a try too. If I discover anything really facinating, I'll let you know.

jamie · « **Reply #6 on:** December 13, 2003, 06:50:09 AM »

If I reccall coorectly the best loads for accuracy were plain ole Clays, not Universal, but regular ole Clays and 180 grn rnfp bullet. Believe it was 4.0 grns of powder but not sure on that double check.

Savage · « **Reply #7 on:** December 13, 2003, 04:20:55 PM »

Been using Bullseye a lot of years for target loads in 9mm, 38spl, 44spl/mag, 45acp, and 45 colt. No problems. I have considered giving Clays a try someday. Not sure why, I'm satisified with the performance of Bullseye.
Savage

Questor · « **Reply #8 on:** December 17, 2003, 03:50:15 AM »

I've come full circle on it. I've tried Clays and 231 and I just went back to Bullseye. Somebody gave me a good load for a particular gun and I wanted try it. The first time I tried it I used CCI 300 primers and got a dirty load. Now I'm using Winchester primers (which are hotter) and it's a lot cleaner burning.

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 17, 2003, 12:31:32 PM »

Questor, thanks for the tip on the primers. Would you care to share the load information?

Flint · « **Reply #10 on:** December 17, 2003, 02:46:47 PM »

I used 231 for 30 years, it always worked for me. Today, the cleaner equivalent to Bullseye besides Clays would be Hogdon's Titegroup. 231 is as mentioned a bit slower, and so would AA #5, which is excellent for 9mm and 40 S&W.

Questor · « **Reply #11 on:** December 17, 2003, 03:37:12 PM »

Butlerford:

I shoot target loads in bullseye guns (which are built with lighter recoil springs than typical 1911s). The load I'm using in one particular gun is 3.6 grains of bullseye with winchester WLP primers and 185 grain cast bullets. This will probably be too light to cycle most 1911s. 3.9 grains probably will cycle the action of most 1911s and will give a velocity of about 800fps. Taper crimp is to .469". Load also works with 200 grain lead SWCs. 3.9 grains of bullseye is the standard for bullseye competition shooters. 3.6 grains is considered a mild load for indoor shooting.

It doesn't have to be a three powder affair. I see no difference in accuracy between 231, Clays, and Bullseye (and I'm hooked on precision shooting.) 231 meters the best, but charge weight is significantly greater so you get fewer rounds per pound of powder.

I do recommend the winchester primers, though. They really make a difference for clean burning. They tend to be cheaper too.

Very interesting to note is that when I first started loading 45ACP I used my RCBS powder measure to meter Bullseye powder. This drove me crazy because the powder seemed to be magnetically attracted to the measure and I could not get consistent charge weight. That's why I switched to 231. With the Dillon press, Bullseye meters very uniformly.

Clays does seem to be cleaner burning than Bullseye. Bullseye burns sootier.

What will I use in the future? Probably Clays. It seems to have the best combination of light charge weight, clean burning, and accuracy.

I don't have my charges for 231 and Clays handy, so I can't tell you now what they are.

Some other 45ACP loading tips:
1) Do not use Amerc brass. Trust me.
2) S&B brass often has tight primer pockets, so I don't value it highly
3) Ed Masaki, the famous 1911 gunsmith, did accuracy tests that prove mixed brass to yield loads just as accurate as single-manufacturer/single-lot brass.
4) Getting the taper crimp right is critical to getting good functioning.
5) The 45ACP is very forgiving to load.
6) Case capacity is such that you need to be careful not to do double charges.
7) Most competition shooters who shoot for accuracy use Bullseye or the fast Vihta Vuori powder (310 or 320, I can't remember which.)

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #12 on:** December 17, 2003, 11:49:27 PM »

Questor, if I had asked the question properly, you just gave me your opinion of everything I wanted to know. Thank you very much.
Being one that likes to tinker, if I could just find 4 oz. bottles of 231, clays and bullseye I'd be in hog heaven. I already have some Titegroup on the shelf (Thanks Flint)
I think that the Vihta-Vhouri powder is out of the running due to cost and nonavailability locally, and since I'm not a serious competition shooter, I'll use the price difference to go to another match.
I've still got a couple of weeks till my decision has to be made, so I'll powder ponder just a little while longer. Who knows my ultimate choice may already be made for me, my local Breakfast/Pawn/Gun store may only have one!

Questor · « **Reply #13 on:** December 18, 2003, 02:41:24 AM »

Butlerford45:

If you like to tinker, order a copy of Loadbooks 45 load book. It's under $10 and you'll get the big picture in a hurry. It won't have the latest or most exotic powders, but it's very worthwhile.

I've been using .469" on the taper crimp because it works best in the gun I started loading with. Others like .471", and I think most prefer right around .470".

If you do use WLP primers and prepare light loads, don't switch to another kind of primer without testing the new load. It may not cycle the action.

Graybeard · « **Reply #14 on:** December 18, 2003, 04:07:04 AM »

Bullseye was the first handgun powder I ever loaded. I've never been without it since. Until I discovered W296 Bullseye and H2400 were the only handgun powders I used. And ya know even today you could do a lot worse than to use only those two.

GB

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #15 on:** December 18, 2003, 06:01:06 AM »

GB, I have on the shelf as we speak, 296, 2400 and tightgroup. I guess great minds think alike. Maybe that's why I spend so much time here!!???
Questor, I've heard several mention the Loadbook's, enough so that my curosity has been piqued, I'll probably pick one up in the near future. Thanks some more.

Mikey · « **Reply #16 on:** December 18, 2003, 08:37:17 AM »

ButlerFord - I bought one of the first Loadmaps or whatever they are, for the 45 acp, when they first came out and find that I don't use it much. I don't really tinker with 45 acp loads - I will either shoot a 230 gn ball or a good cast 230 gn wide flatnose, such as the bullet for the 45 Schofield. I try to stay in the mil-spec range of 875-880'/sec and some of the data in the 45 acp loadmap was not all that interesting. What I do find interesting is the data for the Vhita-Vhoury-Oy powders, some of which start with a bottom line load that is the equivalent of the mil-spec level I want. Also, I find that the older Lyman manuals give some dang good data, and I have been using that for a long time. A good standby is 6.5 of Unique ifin ya'll jes wanna plink, but if you are looking for serious accuracy and serious carry, there are other powders that will suffice. WW231 is a good one but doesn't get you to mil-spec; slightly slower powders also give you better burning consistency and often, better accuracy. Good luck on ya. Mikey.

Graybeard · « **Reply #17 on:** December 19, 2003, 05:25:17 AM »

Loadmap and Load Books are not the same I don't think. The former is a product of MidwayUSA I think. The other is a separate outfit which takes data from all available manuals for a single round and puts it it a single book.

GB

Tom W. · « **Reply #18 on:** December 20, 2003, 08:03:41 PM »

5.1 grains of Greendot works well with a 230 gr. cast bullet.

Savage · « **Reply #19 on:** December 21, 2003, 04:32:36 AM »

All of the aforementioned powders work well in 45. The 45ACP performs well with any number of pistol and shotgun powders. I continue to use Bullseye because of the economy of the low charge weights required in this round. 4.2grs with a 230gr cast, WWLP primer, makes IDPA power factor in my Kimber Custom Target and my Glock 21.
Savage