Well business back to the old ways.

[SwampThing762]

The only way to eliminate the deficit is to reduce spending and cut away the excess fat from the government body.  It is reported by several news outlets that fed employees make more than double their private sector counterparts.   I think we should eliminate the Depts of Education, Energy and Labor.  I also think the FCC should be disbanded as well.  of the remaining federal government employees, a pay cut of 15% and then freeze for 5 years.

Also, do away with the Earned Income Credit and Alternative Minimum Tax (too convoluted).  Also, make welfare benefits taxable at standard income tax rates, if not eliminating welfare altogether.

My 2 cents.

ST762

[Cabin4]

Stop feeding and growing the beast. The beast needs tax dollars to grow. You feed it and it will grow and eventually eat you.

[Conan The Librarian]

Newt Gingrich has a good idea about unemployment benefits: For the first three weeks you get assistance. After that, you work three days a week on civic projects like park maintenance to get the assistance. This gives plenty of time to search for a job, and gives an incentive to get off assistance. I thought it was a really good idea that I wouldn't mind living with if I were out of work.

I have two friends who were fired. Neither were in any rush to find a job because they knew they had plenty of time. One went back to school and got a culinary arts degree, the other made a couple of music CDs. All paid for by you and me.

[ironglow]

Let us not stop there.  Let's make your vote count by your income.  Let's say the person that makes million a year his vote counts twice.   Seems to what many are talking here.  If you do not understand that as income rises so does the benefit from government services you just do not get it.

Do a little reading about the American Revolution and Sam Adams and you will understand where I come from.  He was at the forefront of the independence movement to cut out the kings taxes but it was mainly because if HIS assets he was defending.  I am glad for the revolution and may Americans died but he not only did well he made a ton of money.  He should pay more because many paid everything.  Kinda sounds like Iraq does it not?

  Wareagle;
  I am not on your case, but some things must be clarified. You seem to be saying that our founding fathers were revolutionaries only because they were only interested in protecting their fortunes protecting their fortunes. Nothing could be further from the truth ! On the contrary, they were risking "their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor".
  The man you cited, Sam, Adams , was probably one of the least wealthy of the group. When they signed the Declaration of independence, there was automatically a price on their heads and their property was up for confiscation...  Read this ..if you dare;
   http://www.usff.com/usff/sacredhonor.html     The facts involved have been investigated and verified by those both for and against America..and the facts stand.
   They were dealing with a parasite ..that parasite was the aristocracy and certain "nobility" who did not a stitch of work, but lived off those who did.
  Today in America we have  our own 21st century parasites .
   Who are those parasites ? they are the career politicians, the political hacks who do the "party" dirty work, such as "community organizers". They are those who have for generations refused to do a bit of work, but instead, live off those who do work. Then there are those of academia who, while they slurp at the American tax trough...go on spilling their Marxist bilge into impressionable young minds which still lack discernment.
  Our founding fathers grew tired of "being used" in many ways and we of the 21st century America tired of the same things.

   Now, you may have read a "history book' about the founding fathers, but I have a suspicion that it must have been a "revisionist history" book..

[45-70.gov]

It seems the republicans are back to the old game.  All those guys care about getting tax cuts for the top 3 percent.  That is why I walked away from this party because I am not that top 3 percent.  Seems like nothing is going to pass as far a tax cuts unless the big dogs get it first.  

you rob from the richest 3%  to feed the poor

YOUR STILL A THIEF THAT HAS NO MORALS

plain and simple

you want to eat  at someone elses table...not lick crumps off the floor

BUILD YOU OWN TABLE
then that will be your  call

QUOTE
 GOP loves people like you.  Go ahead a eat the crubs that fall from the table.  No me, I want to sit at the table, thank you.

And another thing...
When the second richest man in America says that the GOP is wrong and the top 3 percent should pay more you need to listen.
------------------------------
the 2nd riches man.....has his  eye  on the rich folks  money!!!!
he deosn't care about the peons of the world .... they are  just pawns to him

[wareagleguy]

Iron,
Don't read more into it than it is.  I am simply saying that Mr. Adams did make a little money for the protection this country provided him.  I am not saying that is wrong because WE ALL GET THE PROTECTION!!!  I am saying that that protection is not divided equal to everyone and that is one of the main reasons why some should pay more taxes. 

As far as moving off shore to hide taxes.  This is a new thing because the laws have been passed to allow this to happen.  I was called free trade and it was a total rape of the American working class.  Until things get bad (which I believe has started) the common man is not going to change.

45-70,
Where did you hear me say anything about rob the rich, BS?  Careful, I take note at being called a thief.  I am talking about government services here.  You know, like military and roads but I still do not understand why people want the middle class to carry all burden for the government?  And from forums like this where I think is made mostly from the middle class that is the way you want it.

I will say it again when the second richest man in this country tells you that he and others like him should pay more you should listen.  I will tell you this, if you replace him as the second richest man I will listen because I KNOW he knows more than anyone posting here.  Including me.

[billy_56081]

Now to you folks that want corporations taxed. Who gives the corporations the money to pay thier taxes? I'll give you a hint, just in case you are a little slow, you the customer does! So you are asking for higher prices on your goods you buy. Pretty simple.

[45-70.gov]

Now to you folks that want corporations taxed. Who gives the corporations the money to pay thier taxes? I'll give you a hint, just in case you are a little slow, you the customer does! So you are asking for higher prices on your goods you buy. Pretty simple.

your pretty smart
now  explain to  me this robin hood mentality...and  rich  envy

not  only are rich  ask to pay MORE  but i higher percentage too
THAT  IS STEALING....AND  DISCRIMINATION

[billy_56081]

Now to you folks that want corporations taxed. Who gives the corporations the money to pay thier taxes? I'll give you a hint, just in case you are a little slow, you the customer does! So you are asking for higher prices on your goods you buy. Pretty simple.

your pretty smart
now  explain to  me this robin hood mentality...and  rich  envy

not  only are rich  ask to pay MORE  but i higher percentage too
THAT  IS STEALING....AND  DISCRIMINATION

I'm thinking it is jealousy and envy, combined with a lack of intelligence and  just plain old ignorance. Why do they call it common sence when it is so uncommon.

[wareagleguy]

Now that we are talking about corporate tax (and I started this thread) let me throw you a curve.  I don't think we should have a corporate tax.  Didn't see that coming did you?  However, corporations should pay according to out of country investors and out of country business.  Come in and you are clear but go out and you will pay.  You can only play here if you build and invest here.  If you want to make your goods in China, fine, but there will be a tax added.

45-70,
you talk like a top 3%.

[Cabin4]

Now that we are talking about corporate tax (and I started this thread) let me throw you a curve.  I don't think we should have a corporate tax.  Didn't see that coming did you?  However, corporations should pay according to out of country investors and out of country business.  Come in and you are clear but go out and you will pay.  You can only play here if you build and invest here.  If you want to make your goods in China, fine, but there will be a tax added.

45-70,
you talk like a top 3%.

The problem with that is other countries won't apply the same concept. So if a USA company has to pay a tax because you produce products in China for sale outside the USA, you just made the USA company uncompetitive with say its German competitor. So the USA company won't be able to compete and they will loose business. The only thing that can possibally work is to apply an import tax for goods shipped into the USA. This tax then applies to all imports. So even if the product is produced in China by a German company, the import tax applies. Applying a tax to goods produced and sold outside the USA is wrong and it can only kill US companies.

[wareagleguy]

You got that backwards.  The tax applies to ONLY imports.

[billy_56081]

You got that backwards.  The tax applies to ONLY imports.

A tariff, I can agree with that on goods and materials which can be produced here in our country. Now I would not agree with a tariff on essential materials that cannot be produced here.

[SwampThing762]

Reduce taxes and govt spending is true path to economic recovery.  Govt does not stop recessions.

ST762

[Pat/Rick]

Taxes are only for the operation of minimal government, and the military to ensure our security. Everything else is theft.
Conan Librarian, I think people working on public projects is a great idea.
Cabin4 yessir I believe it is time to reinstitute trade taxes and tarriffs.

Products shipped to the PRC are usually reverse engineered and built in their factories lowballing the American business's, we saw that with electronics from Japan in the 60's. tax 'em

ST762 yes sir. Will our gov't ever stop spending though?  Limiting spending to the GDP would be a good place to return to. I must admit that I do not remember the desired equation.

All I know is I've always worked hard(until recently) and always felt robbed at payday. Money going to pay for Constitutionally illegal branches of gov't workers.

[45-70.gov]

45-70,
you talk like a top 3%.

i  wish  i was....but  sure  i am  in the top  half
and as  long as we can  hope to be supper rich
AND  NOT BECOME  A TARGET  OF  ENVY

i will continue to expand my business
if  i fail.....i won't ask the government to rob  those that succeded  on  my behalf
i  am not an economist...but  i know right from wrong

[Dixie Dude]

Again, that is why we need a flat tax or no income tax at all.  Use a VAT tax and/or import-export tax.  People could then choose what they want to spend their money on.  On another note.  I really can't understand the poor.  Two people working making minimum wage or slightly above, can make a decent living.  Poor yes, but they can make it.  Once young people work after they get out of high school or even drop out, and stay with the job, they usually get raises and can make a living.  I've seen it done in the past with my family.  With a good work ethic they can work their way up from minimum wage.  I have contractors, who install gas pipelines.  One has a worker who can't read.  He started with him several years ago.  He now makes $10-12 an hour with my contractor.  Another one started at the bottom and has learned how to operate a backhoe.  So he gets paid more now.  If you don't have an education, you can work hard, prove yourself, and work your way up to better pay.  No real reason for so much welfare and food stamps.  Able bodied people can work and make a living.  Sure, they can't have a 2,000 sq. ft. house and 60" plasma TV's, but can have a decent if small place to stay and a small TV.  They may also have to drive a used car all their lives, but they can make it without government assistance.  We have created a perputal state of poverty with the government programs that never end.  Young today are so impatient and don't want to put forth the effort to better themselves.  They want it now, not work for it.  Like Clint Eastwood said on Grand Torino when the kid asked him how he got so many tools.  He told him one tool at a time over 30 years adds up.       

[nomosendero]

Again, that is why we need a flat tax or no income tax at all.  Use a VAT tax and/or import-export tax.  People could then choose what they want to spend their money on.  On another note.  I really can't understand the poor.  Two people working making minimum wage or slightly above, can make a decent living.  Poor yes, but they can make it.  Once young people work after they get out of high school or even drop out, and stay with the job, they usually get raises and can make a living.  I've seen it done in the past with my family.  With a good work ethic they can work their way up from minimum wage.  I have contractors, who install gas pipelines.  One has a worker who can't read.  He started with him several years ago.  He now makes $10-12 an hour with my contractor.  Another one started at the bottom and has learned how to operate a backhoe.  So he gets paid more now.  If you don't have an education, you can work hard, prove yourself, and work your way up to better pay.  No real reason for so much welfare and food stamps.  Able bodied people can work and make a living.  Sure, they can't have a 2,000 sq. ft. house and 60" plasma TV's, but can have a decent if small place to stay and a small TV.  They may also have to drive a used car all their lives, but they can make it without government assistance.  We have created a perputal state of poverty with the government programs that never end.  Young today are so impatient and don't want to put forth the effort to better themselves.  They want it now, not work for it.  Like Clint Eastwood said on Grand Torino when the kid asked him how he got so many tools.  He told him one tool at a time over 30 years adds up.       

Yes indeed!!  Too many young people want to start off in the big office with the windows even though they have not yet earned it.

[45-70.gov]

illegal  alliens break  into this country
they dont' speak the language

YET
they make enough money to sent to the relatives back home
they    ''steal''  american jobs......or do americans just hire the best worker [no tax burden for illegals]

so with  the language  and cultural barriers  they thrive  and also care for those left at  home
even  more attempt to break into this country every day
while the rich  look for a place to  hide their  wealth  and  the middle class  WHINES

IF YOU ARE  POOR  IN AMERICA.....IT  IS A CHOICE  YOU  MADE

ITS REALLY  THAT PLAIN AND SIMPLE

[Cabin4]

illegal  alliens break  into this country
they dont' speak the language

YET
they make enough money to sent to the relatives back home
they    ''steal''  american jobs......or do americans just hire the best worker [no tax burden for illegals]

so with  the language  and cultural barriers  they thrive  and also care for those left at  home
even  more attempt to break into this country every day
while the rich  look for a place to  hide their  wealth  and  the middle class  WHINES

IF YOU ARE  POOR  IN AMERICA.....IT  IS A CHOICE  YOU  MADE

ITS REALLY  THAT PLAIN AND SIMPLE

10-4 on that. Class warfare as means to develop tax and fiscal policy is stupid. Illegals are an issue that directly impact our economy and jobs. Those that support a lack of enforcement in this area are enemies of this countries principals.

[Cabin4]

Saying class warfare of one kind or another doesn't or shouldn't exist doesn't mean that history is all wrong.  Class warfare exist...now on the propaganda continum...always has and always will. In fact, some might argue that the entire of history of man can be explained by one class vs another class. I believe our founding  fathers and their charters recognized this fact and strived to prevent extreme agrandizement of wealth, influence, power, spiritual rivalry, etc...to perserve the nation and keep men free. Quite an experiment.


..TM7

Of course there will always be class warfare for the politicians and for those we want to develop legalized means of stealing things from others. Class warfare has always been the tool of choice for the socialist, communists and Marxists. It can be effective in achieving a milestone but history proves how it fails in the end.

[Sourdough]

Billy:  Name me an essential material that can not be produced here in the US of A.  We are loaded with essential materials but the EPA won't let us take it out of the ground.  Therefore tax the heck out of those materials so the people will tell the EPA to back off.

[Cabin4]

Of course there will always be class warfare for the politicians and for those we want to develop legalized means of stealing things from others. Class warfare has always been the tool of choice for the socialist, communists and Marxists. It can be effective in achieving a milestone but history proves how it fails in the end.

C4....Nah! Not that categorized or easily tabled.....Class warfare was what happened during our Revolution or in any war for that matter...the founders  reminded us that we may need to do it again from time to time. Class warfare existed long before Marx pointed out the difference in monetarism of socialism vs the monetarism of capitalism...thus setting up the dialectic for the kind of class struggle you spoke of. Class warfare has existed where and whenever the burden of lies, poverty, theft, and power dominate people who wish to be free.....(this btw is the basis of some of our GWOT rhetoric); and doesn't matter what economic system is operative..whether a dictatorship of the proletariat or the dictatorship of the elite and influencial. People eventually start to figure out who the owners of the system are and all their ruses and propaganda...simply by looking around them...hunger and poverty are just catalyst of this process.  Then out come the barricades, torches and pitchforks when grievances are not adequately adressed....eg. like this tax shift boondoggle. The owners will ALWAYS manufacture a ruse...a foreign enemy, attacks, some collapse, perhaps an epidemic, religious warping, and so on...whatever it takes to hold power and get more. They do not go quietly in the night...its all or nothing and too much to lose...that's why when all is crumbling and failing around them, and game over, they will bring down the whole system before running for their pitful lives and to set up shop elsewhere...true psychopathic/narcistic behavior. People are figuring this crap out....


.TM7

Your right TM7. I forgot to add Liberal Democrats to the list. Thanks for pointing that out.

[Dixie Dude]

In 1960 the only things we imported were coffee, tea, bananas, cocoa, and titanium.  All other minerals and all other food were produced here.  We exported cars, tools, TV's, clothing, shoes, lumber, etc.  The two major mistakes the US has made and hasn't corrected are the Federal Reserve system and getting away from the gold standard. 

[Cabin4]

Major Culprits in off-shoring jobs that this country has and can be addressed from a policy standpoint:

Corp tax structure at both the federal and state level.
Unrealistic Union demands.
Federal & Sate level Environmental regulation.
Poor federal import/export Trade Policy that provide incentive to produce goods off-shore
And now the Obama health care legislation

All further drive employers to off shore jobs to lower cost labor markets and or tax havens in order to stay competitive and survive.

Some look at the issue and simply blame it on "greedy corporations". That is the short sited view and it ignores the real root cause issues. Corporations must stay competitive on a global scale. Any business is driven to be competitive to survive and grow. We all benefit in the end. But thanks to short term political gains and attractive "class warfare" tactics by the politicians to secure the next election, we have all these hindrances to long term stability.

[Cabin4]

Major Culprits in off-shoring jobs that this country has and can be addressed from a policy standpoint:

Corp tax structure at both the federal and state level.
Unrealistic Union demands.
Federal & Sate level Environmental regulation.
Poor federal import/export Trade Policy that provide incentive to produce goods off-shore
And now the Obama health care legislation

All further drive employers to off shore jobs to lower cost labor markets and or tax havens in order to stay competitive and survive.

Some look at the issue and simply blame it on "greedy corporations". That is the short sited view and it ignores the real root cause issues. Corporations must stay competitive on a global scale. Any business is driven to be competitive to survive and grow. We all benefit in the end. But thanks to short term political gains and attractive "class warfare" tactics by the politicians to secure the next election, we have all these hindrances to long term stability.

[Cabin4]

Major Culprits in off-shoring jobs that this country has and can be addressed from a policy standpoint:

Corp tax structure at both the federal and state level.
Unrealistic Union demands.
Federal & Sate level Environmental regulation.
Poor federal import/export Trade Policy that provide incentive to produce goods off-shore
And now the Obama health care legislation

All further drive employers to off shore jobs to lower cost labor markets and or tax havens in order to stay competitive and survive.

Some look at the issue and simply blame it on "greedy corporations". That is the short sited view and it ignores the real root cause issues. Corporations must stay competitive on a global scale. Any business is driven to be competitive to survive and grow. We all benefit in the end. But thanks to short term political gains and attractive "class warfare" tactics by the politicians and special interests to secure the next election, we have all these hindrances to long term stability.