Author Topic: My 270 is crap, 5 pulls on the trigger and no deer (Read 3620 times)

gjdykeman · « **on:** December 04, 2010, 12:37:57 PM »

14 degrees, out at 0 dark thirty. Sitting there hating life. Holly crap here comes two deer trotting through the woods. 75+ yards. Laid on one, a little thick, waited, disappeared. Oh well. Holy crap here comes another, big one. Laid on it got a clear shot, click, FTF. @#$%. Pulled back, click, @#$%. Through that one over my shoulder, popped in another, slammed it shut, deer still there. Squeezed, bang, no flop

It wobbled a little then trotted out of site. Stupid. Sat back down, reloaded, snapped it shut hard. Smoking, eating a bar, ready to go home. Holy crap here comes two more. Laid on the biggest one, waited for a clear shot, squeezed, bang, no flop

Mad. stood up walked up were I could see better, nothing. Looking around and holy crap, there is a deer looking at me from around that tree, 40y. Laid on it, neck shot, click, FTF, @#$%. Whoosh, all gone. Went home. out 0700, left 0830. One Fri and Sat left. The boy's Winchester 94 is coming out of the locker.

Goatwhiskers · « **Reply #1 on:** December 04, 2010, 12:48:30 PM »

Point #1, FTF should have been dealt with before going to the woods, still it's not that hard to trace the prob down and fix it. Point #2, you fired, deer wobbled then moved off. You had a hit, why the heck didn't you trail it? Deer don't always fall down DRT. Hate to see game go to waste. Goatwhiskers the Elder

trotterlg · « **Reply #2 on:** December 04, 2010, 12:51:20 PM »

Make a Grape Stake out of it and move on. Larry

Slowhanddd · « **Reply #3 on:** December 04, 2010, 12:52:41 PM »

Got to agree.If you saw it wobble,it was hit.I've hunted 40+ years and can count the bang flops on one hand.Should've trailed it!Enough preaching.How many times have you shot this gun?Trigger pull means a lot in these with the transfer bar safety.

gjdykeman · « **Reply #4 on:** December 04, 2010, 12:58:29 PM »

Sorry, I lied. After a while I went and looked. Blood. I tracked that deer for two hours, then went home. Rifle slinged, no ammo in chamber. No confidence. No more blood after about 100y. Then I went home. Gave up hunting at 0830.

gjdykeman · « **Reply #5 on:** December 04, 2010, 01:15:11 PM »

I had this issue at the range. The hammer was hitting the scope. Bobbed the hammer and fired 80 rounds. Never a misfire again. 2" group at 100y. 10m after I was home had the files and Dremmel out. Cold?, brand new receiver? No time. W94 30-30 proven and sighted. Need meat. Twigs, sticks, who knows. Next year. 45LC carbine would also have done the job, choices. Its the hunt.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #6 on:** December 04, 2010, 02:10:17 PM »

The 14º temp probably a lot to do with the FTFs, the Handi firing system isn't the most efficient, combined with the weak factory hammer spring, transfer bar and possibly not pulling the trigger all the way to the rear, cold temps and any oil in the works slows everything and you end up a FTF. $:-\$

Tim

digs68 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 04, 2010, 09:44:51 PM »

Either that, or you could go for the free trans bar upgrade. Call one of the H&R approved repair shops. Works great.
Did you trail the others that you fired at?
Better luck next time!

STUMPJMPR · « **Reply #8 on:** December 05, 2010, 02:49:09 AM »

You should have not shot at anymore deer after hitting the first one. Almost every deer I have shot with the .270 ran. I have found everyone of them. There are probably 3 deer laying dead somewhere right now. The last deer I killed with a .243 bucked and ran. I found no blood. I knew he was hit. I had confidence in my gun. That morning I shot a 3 shot group around 1". I searched the thicket for a 1/2 hr before I got lucky and stumbled upon him. Double lung shot. His insides were a wreck, but he still ran. If the gun has proven to shoot a group off the bench 9 times out of 10 it is not the guns fault.

Bigeasy · « **Reply #9 on:** December 05, 2010, 03:13:45 AM »

guns-o-fun · « **Reply #10 on:** December 05, 2010, 04:50:13 AM »

75 yards? Not far for a 270. What weight bullet? You have to watch some of the 130 grainers at closer ranges. They can actually explode on impact at the higher 270 velocities - makes nothing more than a very nasty surface wound and a suffering deer that dies eventually of infection. You might want to do all of the above, and at shorter ranges like this, use a 150 grain bullet.

mauser98us · « **Reply #11 on:** December 05, 2010, 04:56:37 AM »

I have killed a few at 75 yards or less with the 270. They have always taken more than one shot no matters where the first went. Even a text book shot. Face it the 270 really isn't effiecent at that range.A nice slow round nosed slug would be better.

c1skout · « **Reply #12 on:** December 05, 2010, 10:16:03 AM »

I've got 5 deer with my 270 and 130gn core-loks. 1 was a bang-flop at 120yds, 1 was running at 15yds and hit the ground and slid nose first into a brush pile. 1 other took a step or 2 and fell. the other ones I had to track.

petemi · « **Reply #13 on:** December 05, 2010, 11:20:38 AM »

Sorry, but I gotta believe it's the man behind the rifle....not the rifle. Patty can kill anything she can see with hers. My neighbor dropped a 6X6 elk in its tracks with his at 300.

Quote from: mauser98us on December 05, 2010, 04:56:37 AM

A nice slow round nosed slug would be better.

That's what I like. .45-70, .445, .38.55, .357 Max.

Pete

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #14 on:** December 05, 2010, 12:35:18 PM »

"A slow, round nosed slug." Dang, I think my wife has called me that.

DP

Dorado · « **Reply #15 on:** December 05, 2010, 02:47:40 PM »

How much time have you put in at the range with the .270, what kinda bullets weight ect?, sorry but if you put a .270 round though the lungs of a whitetail they die.

sert01 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 05, 2010, 06:27:38 PM »

So. You never said if you followed up on the second deer you shot at. Did you make any attempt at all to follow up and check for a hit.Really hate to think about two suffering deer running around out there. If not to yourself, you at least owe it to the deer to make any and every effort to recover anything that you've shot. If you've shot any amount of game at all, you just can't "assume" that you missed just because they didn't just fall over dead at the sound of the shot.

thejanitor · « **Reply #17 on:** December 05, 2010, 07:04:52 PM »

Quote from: STUMPJMPR on December 05, 2010, 02:49:09 AM

Almost every deer I have shot with the .270 ran. I have found everyone of them.

+1 ................ We have 3 .270 (bolts) in our house, and of probably 20 deer I have shot or watched my kids shoot maybe 5 were DRT. A heart shot is good for 100 yds of trailing if they are running and a lung shot for 65+yds. I have had deer just flop over but I can't tell you a reason from one shot to the next.
Good luck w the 30-30. Hope you have backstraps before long.
Oh- I am not going to rag about the trailing part, maybe you just left some out of your story. But I look for blood and hair every time I shoot at game.
thejanitor

trotterlg · « **Reply #18 on:** December 05, 2010, 07:45:28 PM »

I think what everyone is missing is the amount of FTF's and what that does to the hunters thoughts about what the gun he is using is doing. Pull the trigger and.................Nothing, do it again.................Nothing, then Bang! Deer just runs off. This gives no body a good thought of a hit on anything. This type of performance is far too common with the H&R's. I am thinking there is a very basic design flaw in the system that H&R uses for the whole fireing mechinisim on these things. The transfer bar safety system is clearly flawed when compared to a conventional rifle, requrieing special trigger techniques etc. I have had some discussions with other members on this subject. If H&R is now offering an upgrade to the transfer bar system, it would seem that they agree that there is a problem. I am not that close to the problem, I shoot them very little, but I bet there are a lot of people who know a lot more about this than I do. Kind of like the person who told me that it is like the King who had no clothes on, no one would say anyting about it, but every one could see it. Larry

moorepower · « **Reply #19 on:** December 05, 2010, 08:58:39 PM »

I would agree with you there Larry, it is just not natural to try to make a trigger have over travel. It IS extra motion that every other make tries to eliminate, as it hurts the accuracy, and if you shoot more than one brand it is easy to not "follow through".I hope the new design bar fixes it, but I am ordering topper hammers to replace all mine.

LONGTOM · « **Reply #20 on:** December 06, 2010, 02:41:23 AM »

Have hunted with 270s for more than 40 years and have had only 1 FTF from any of them.
This is with a total of 6 different rifles, from model 70 Winchesters to a 1885 custom HighWall and a Handi rifle.
Have killed to date 129 deer and hundreds of groundhogs and many foxes.
99% were killed with 130gr bullets at ranges from 10yds to over 500yds.
Many deer were bang flops.
Some were short tracks and a few were long, not many.
Hit ranged from heart/lung shots to head shots to shoulder/neck shots.
The 270 always did its job.
Total lost in my life were 4 deer from all guns ever used.
Two from the 270s, one was my fault, bad pulled shot, deer found three days later by me, wasted meat and the other was never found!
One was from a 35 Whelen Handi, again, my fault, pulled shot, deer was killed a day or two latter by my neighbor's son,
and the last was from a MZ that got over on another neighbor that wouldn't give me permission to go get it. A real gun/hunter hater!
So much for my hunting experences with the 270s and my deer hunting in general.

Now as to the problems that gjdykeman had I will say the following:

1 - he never said if this was with factory ammo or reloads
2 - the cold may have been the reason for the FTFs, especially if they were reloads, possible wrong powder, temperature sensitive
3 - out a total of an hour and a half, shot at two deer with one most likely hit and three FTFs, I have spent more time than that just looking for signs of a possible hit!
4 - should have saved that round he threw away to check for a light hammer strike or other problem
5 - as stated before, how much range time with this gun
6 - won't go into the skill/experence/ethics of the hunter

By all means, use the 94 if it has proven to be a good gun and you have experence with it.
After season work with the 270 to try and figure out what caused the FTFs.
By the words used and the way your post reads ie: "Sitting there hating life - Holy crap here comes another, big one - Stupid - Smoking, eating a bar, ready to go home. Holy crap here comes two more" I would say maybe a little excited and a lot of frustration.
Neither of these make a good hunter!

Not trying to be judgemental.
If I have come off that way I apologize .

LONGTOM

sert01 · « **Reply #21 on:** December 06, 2010, 03:17:29 AM »

Mr. gjdykeman, my apologies if I came across a little harsh. Surely wasn't meant to be. In 40 years of deer hunting ,using 8+ different calibers and three different muzzleloaders, (flintlock, inline, and percussion) and two different handguns, I've been very fortunate and only had one deer (out of over 50+, whitetails, muledeer, and antelope) that I couldn't find. I hit a nice buck through the chest with a 45/70 300gr. factory load. Tracked it to the edge of the Clarion River in western Pa. and the trail ended there. Blood all over the place. It had fallen down several times. I think it tried to swim the river and got swept down stream in the high water. I even drove 15 miles to get to the other side , hiked a mile through the woods until I was directly across from where I lost the trail on the other bank and tried to make sure that it hadn't made it across. That was about 15 years ago and it still bothers me. Perhaps I'm a bit frustrated as my health conditions have kept me from going hunting this year! And I have never hated life if I was able to get out in the woods hunting. That is my form of "therapy"!! As they say, "my worst day in the woods is still a hellava lot better than my best day at work". Sert01

mannyrock · « **Reply #22 on:** December 06, 2010, 04:25:16 AM »

Man,

I am really sorry to say this, but you don't need to turn in your rifle. You need to turn in your hunting license. I have never read of such irresponsible hunting conduct on this forum. I agree with the other poster, that there are probably 3 dead deer laying in the woods right now. Clearly, you haven't developed the fundamental skills you need in order to hunt, i.e,. placing your shot, recognizing when an animal has been hit, keeping a cool head, and tracking a wounded deer. You say that you tracked it a whole 75 yards? That's only about as far as I can hit a baseball. Blood trail played out? Did you get down on your hands and knees with a flashlight and crawl forward, marking any blood spot with a swatch of tissue paper? Did you rest up a while, and then come back the next morning and re-track it in broad daylight? If not, then you really shouldn't be doing any more hunting.

Mannyrock

mannyrock · « **Reply #23 on:** December 06, 2010, 04:34:23 AM »

Sorry, but I've got to say just one more thing to the poster here. Who in the world told you that when you shoot a deer with a hunting rifle, even a really good shot, that it simply "flops" down dead? Ninety five percent of them don't! They either "hop" or "shudder", and then run away really fast, with a "whoosh" as you described. Then they run between 50 and 150 yards, and lie down and die. I am absolutely stunned that you don't know this. I have been hunting deer for 45 years and know what I am talking about.

You became so flustered and angry at a minor mechanical failure of your rifle, that you turned your day into a shooting fest, with disasterous results for the animals. No experienced hunter would do this.

Manny

Winter Hawk · « **Reply #24 on:** December 06, 2010, 05:03:10 AM »

Manny,

Did you see his further post that he lied? He actually spent two hours looking for it, then quit hunting and went home? Maybe I missed something else there? I agree that if he has three deer lying around which have been hit but not killed he needs to get out of the woods, but that is not what I got out of his second post.

-WH-

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #25 on:** December 06, 2010, 05:07:55 AM »

Quote from: Bigeasy on December 05, 2010, 03:13:45 AM

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #26 on:** December 06, 2010, 05:08:39 AM »

Some things are best kept to ones self !

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #27 on:** December 06, 2010, 05:10:50 AM »

From the # of deer that I have found dead in the woods late in the winter it is very evident that there are many guys out there that shoot at deer that never get out of thier stand and even look and see if they hit it.Almost as if they don't see a back flip they assume they missed and thats sad. But true . That's all I am going to say sad but true. Kurt

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #28 on:** December 06, 2010, 05:18:55 AM »

That's true and the cold will slow or stop the blood flow out of the wound. Box store hunters , go to the box store , buy hunting stuff , find a place to hunt and have at it. Never pratice and have no confidence in their shooting . Most shooters question everything but their shooting as they have praticed until its part of them.

Spanky · « **Reply #29 on:** December 06, 2010, 05:23:01 AM »

I've only had a few of them fall where they stood. Most of them have had to be tracked a short distance. Some have had to be tracked a longer distance. I shot a large doe about 10 years ago and pulled the shot, the bullet went through the gut and out one of her hind quarters. I tracked her (sometimes on my hands and knees) for about half a mile before I could see her and make a finishing shot. I guess I could have said "screw it" after 100 yds. or so but that ain't me. If I even think I hit one I look and look and look some more until I'm ABSOLUTELY sure that I missed or I find the deer.

Like some of the others have said... there are probably 2 or 3 deer laying dead somewhere that nobody bothered to recover. $:-\$
Just my 2 cents on the matter.

Spanky