My 270 is crap, 5 pulls on the trigger and no deer

[SHOOTALL]

I will be honest most of the deer I have shot went a very short distance 25 yards or less. Some dropped where they stood. I remember several that made it to the next stand and another hunter finished the deed. One went several hundred yards the last 50 out in a swamp/lake where I had to get a boat to get it. Several ended up in creeks , the list goes on. I admit to not finding two that may have been shot by the club on the next clubs land . Then there are a few that could not be found at time of shot. One was found the next year. And a couple that were never found.
 As hard as some have trouble believing there are places in the South that don't see deer as noble creatures . They see them as crop destorying vermin. Some are shot and dragged off in the woods to rot. I have heard that in some places they are shot in the stomach and let run off to die. So when talking about looking for shot deer in some places its a waste of time to some. Not what hunters want to hear or do but it exist . Its why many states have laws saying you must atempt to recover shot game. A good law !

[LONGTOM]

Misunderstanding in what I read.
He quit hunting at 8:30 and then looked for 2 hours after that, if I read it right the third time.

It also appears that he shot at only 2 deer, the rest were FTFs.
1st shot-FTF
2nd shot-FTF
3rd shot-bang no flop-deer wobbled
4th shot-bang no flop-went to look
5th shot-FTF

Now we have it clear.



LONGTOM

[moorepower]

A. After reading about all the deer hunts on various sites, I thought all were bang flop!
B. I have had only two bang flop's and they were spine shots.
C. Three out of five FTF would not make me confident in my gun.
D. I have always heard a "thwap" when a bullet has hit a deer.

[Swampman]

Have you considered the Stevens 200?

[sert01]

Have you considered a belt-fed machine gun??

[LONGTOM]

A. After reading about all the deer hunts on various sites, I thought all were bang flop!

Head and Neck shots with my 270 wsm or my Handi in 45/70 are!!!  


D. I have always heard a "thwap" when a bullet has hit a deer.

With my hearing, I don't always hear the "thwap" anymore.




LONGTOM

[SHOOTALL]

a thwap is good a whoop is a gut shot critter . 

[Jimbo47]

I shot a spike this morning with my 20 gauge Tracker ll using a 1 oz. Remington Buckhammer slug at 96 paces and hit the spike behind the shoulder and the buck still went about 30 yards with an almost 1" hole through and through.

It's hard to get a deer to bang flop unless you hit the spine or break both shoulders, as it just rarely happens.

[Swampman]

I gave up on heart lung shots.  They are for bowhunters.

[gjdykeman]

Lots of Humpfs about this story. I have been hunting deer for over 40 years. There was a bit of sarcasm intended. I am old and a disabled veteran and none of my buddies believe in the hunt. When I said hating life, it was a joke. 14 degrees is no picnic, but I was out there at 0 dark thirty, by myself. I spent all summer working on this gun. Handloads, factory, 4 different bullet weights, and 3 different powders. Turns out it's cheaper to buy factory ammo at 13.99 a box and easier. The FTF was the story. I shot 3 deer the last two previous years. 1 Muzzleloader, spent  1 hour, with my son, showing him how to spot the trail. Circles. One little spot of blood. Bigger circles, another spot. Line up and trail. There it is 75y from where I fired at it. He was getting mad at me for wasting his time. Freezer. The same year I shot a field dressed 170lb doe in the mountains at 225+ yards. Bang Flop, I saw it's hoofs strait up in the air wiggling. Last year, last Sat Last two hours, -12 in the morning, 24" of snow. 70y. Bang, flop, flipped over twice. Nice two year old doe. Forrest county, Pa. You guys can track all you want but when you have to crawl on your hands and knees up the side of the mountains around here by yourself, good luck. Right I only fired at two deer and I have permits for three. And the second bang, them two does stood there waggen there tails and walked off behind that pile of brush. Nuff said. I was using 130g Core-loks, factory. I am not sure that deer I thought I hit wasn't already shot. Back tracked the trail and found hair and a ball of fat , no blood. I think I may have shot it's titties off. Maybe. Plus there was guys every ware, and recently some one purchased most of the land and fields, posted and an electric fence. I don't trespass. I also will not drag a deer two miles through the brush and mountains with no help. I will be coyote food. When I quit tracking, I was two miles from my car and moving away. When I fired I was less then 1/2 mile from my car and on a road. I have a box of 150g core-loks left. I also re-ground the hammer spur and adjusted the hammer strike, cleaned the action and sprayed with light graphite. I will be taking the 270 to Forrest county the Fri morning and Sat. Some range work in the afternoon then 0 dark thirty on Sat. 24" of snow and 15 degrees predicted. That 30-30 is staying in the locker. If the 270 is a no go then 45LC carbine. Handy all the way.

[Graybeard]

I've not read the replies to this one and am not gonna. As much as I hate to put down a fellow hunter you need to go to school on deer hunting.

Just cuz ya go bang don't mean the deer is gonna flop down dead on the spot. In fact that's rare unless the central nervous system is hit. Most likely both deer died and you were just too lazy to go look for the blood trail and follow them up.

[Shu]

I am not going to adress hunting or the ethics of hunting. I think the OP has been caned a plenty.

What I will address is the failure to fire. Primers and powders under go alot of temperature tests. I mean alot. There is a standard for the temperatures for them to operate and operate safely. The temps are about -40 degrees farenheit to 160 farenheit. Yes everyone knows higher outside temperature makes higher internal pressure when the cartridge goes off. The chemistry of primers and powders is very controlled due to large military contracts etc. Failure to fire most but not all of the time are mechanical in nature. Meaning light firing pin strikes. Yes sometimes the primer and powder manufactures screw up, it happens. Out of how many millions of each fail? Most of the time we can take primers and powder out of the equation.

[Landric]

From the # of deer that I have found dead in the woods late in the winter it is very evident that there are many guys out there that shoot at deer that never get out of thier stand and even look and see if they hit it.Almost as if they don't see a back flip they assume they missed and thats sad. But true . That's all I am going to say sad but true. Kurt

I'm a new hunter, this is my second year hunting (I finally decided to take it up when my wife had twins last year), but I have a great mentor.  They were born just before the start of hunting season last year, so I didn't make it out but two days, and I didn't see anything.  I got my first shot at a deer Thursday of last week.  I was out in the woods with two rifles, one scoped Handi in .444 Marlin, and the other an iron sighted .30-06 Garand, mostly because those are the rifles I have and I can't afford any others at the moment.  Both of them are quite capable, but it would really make more sense to have a scoped .30-06 and an iron sighted .444.

Anyway, after several outings of not seeing anything this year I had two deer wonder up to my spot.  I waited until I had a clear shot.  It was just before dark, and I was actually holding the Garand because I was going to unload it and get up to go in.  There wasn't enough light for me to get a good sight picture and place it well on the deer, so I picked up the .444 Handi.  I took careful aim, pulled the trigger, and the deer literally did a back flip and fell down.

I've been a cop for fifteen years.  I've shot many injured deer during that time, not to mention seen quite a few people shot.  I had just enough time to think "that thing is down for the count" before it popped up and ran away.  My hunting mentor and I look for blood, hair, etc. in the last little bit of light and with a flashlight without any luck.  It got very dark, so we decided to wait until first light and keep looking (no danger of the meat going bad in the cold).  We never found any blood, hair, or other sign I hit the deer.  Looking back, I jerked the trigger and either missed so closely it scared the deer nearly to death, or a grazed it and caused no serious injury.  My point: I'm a much better shot than that, but I still missed, and even a back flip doesn't always mean a good, killing shot.

As a side note, I had the .444 barrel mounted on my .45-70 Handi frame, because no matter how I pull the trigger the frame that came with the .444 barrel light strikes at least 50% of the time.  The .45-70 frame has never had a light strike with any of my three Handi barrels (.444, .45-70, and .357 Max).

[Swampman]

If I was hunting in weather that cold I'd make sure there was no lube of any kind around that firing pin.

[Spanky]

Landric,

Deer don't do backflips from bullets missing them or grazing them. The deer you shot is dead somewhere and you didn't recover it.
I've shot quite a few deer and not had any blood trail. You still have tracks to follow and a general direction where the deer went. Most of the time the deer is dead not far from where it was hit. Tracking ain't always easy but it's necessary.



Spanky

[Landric]

Landric,

Deer don't do backflips from bullets missing them or grazing them. The deer you shot is dead somewhere and you didn't recover it.
I've shot quite a few deer and not had any blood trail. You still have tracks to follow and a general direction where the deer went. Most of the time the deer is dead not far from where it was hit. Tracking ain't always easy but it's necessary.



Spanky

That is what I would think too, and I suppose we could have missed it somewhere, but we spent several hours the next morning trying to locate it, and never had any success.  I watched the direction it ran, we followed that direction first, then branched out.  We covered a lot of ground.  No joy.  It wasn't in particularly thick woods either.  I feel like if it was there, we would have found it, but stranger things have happened.

[nebrguy]

A.  You are reading a tale from a self admitted liar. Once lied to, people lose their credibility with me pretty fast.  The story has changed several times.  It's anyone's guess what facts  really went on that morning, or if any of what he says is true or even did. I think his agenda here was a little attention, and he got it. Happily, I believe most of us here come to share factual events with our fellow shooters & hunters.

B.  He claims to have had ignition issues, but also admits doing home gunsmithing prior. A few here want to trash the factory firing mechanism, but no one points out it could be a bad Bubba job ?  I find that a little odd.

I've used my Handi 45-70 to harvest 8 deer, some taken on some pretty cold Nebraska mornings. It's never seen a factory round, only my handloads.  It's also seen a fair amount of range time.  Warm or cold, the dent in the  primers have always had the look of a solid whack.

[Sourdough]

First of all before taking a gun, especially a handi, out into below freezing temps you need to disassemble it and get all the oil and grease off all the parts.  Then use a synthetic lubricant that wil not be affected by freezing temps.  Prevents those Failure To Fires.  

Bet if you had a tracking dog and it's legal in your state like it is in mine, the dog could find those deer.  My Beagle has found lots of lost animals.  Just take him to the spot, show him the blood and let him smell it.  He will hit the end of his leash and drag you to the animal.  Never never let him off his leash, you won't be able to keep up.  Several states allow the use of dogs on a leash to locate wounded animals.

[thejanitor]

Of all our handis we have / had only once have I had FTF and it was on my very first Topper 30-30, It was one trip to the range and it was due to my own fault, when priming the cases I used my press and every primer was dished in from pressing too hard with the ram. I switched to the LEE auto prime and have not had one FTF in six years and 6 more handis. Maybe it is the way I always have pulled the trigger? I have never had super light triggers and have never done a trigger job so am used to a little harder pull. So when I see all the FTF threads I always feel very lucky.
thejanitor

[SHOOTALL]

First of all before taking a gun, especially a handi, out into below freezing temps you need to disassemble it and get all the oil and grease off all the parts.  Then use a synthetic lubricant that wil not be affected by freezing temps.  Prevents those Failure To Fires.  

Bet if you had a tracking dog and it's legal in your state like it is in mine, the dog could find those deer.  My Beagle has found lots of lost animals.  Just take him to the spot, show him the blood and let him smell it.  He will hit the end of his leash and drag you to the animal.  Never never let him off his leash, you won't be able to keep up.  Several states allow the use of dogs on a leash to locate wounded animals.

My old lab took finding them personal. He was good at jumpimg them also . Here it is legal and fun. Funny thing was when he found one he growled and bit its neck and I don't think he cared if it was dead or not. Jake did reach 100 lbs in his prime . He hunted goose, duck, dove and quail also but I got the impression he liked deer best .

[trotterlg]

What is missed is the state of mind that a malfunctioning gun puts one into.  It makes a person think that there are other problems that probably don't exist, but at the time, they seem to all be plausible.  Here on the H&R board it seems a very large amount of time and effort is dedicated to solving very fundamental problems, while on most other brands of gun boards the time and effort is spent fine tuning them, the basic function of most others appear to be fundamentally sound.  There should not be nearly the amount of different solutions to a FTF or the inability to hit a pie plate a 50 yards as there are here.  These types of discussions are nearly non existent on the Savage board or the Remington board for example.  These little rifles can function well, however it seems that a lot of stars have to align before there is a truly excellent and reliable one.  Larry

[nebrguy]

Larry, I can't speak for all Handi's, but I have a gut feeling that if internals weren't tinkered with & altered  by those that have no business tinkering, that the % of stars that have to be aligned for Handi's to work would drop and drop dramatically. Mine has never been messed with, kept clean, lightly oiled, and knock on wood, has been reliable to date for the 15 years or so I have owned it. I'm betting that the vast majority of others in the exact condition mine has been treated to work as mine does. Again, the OP, which has changed stories on us more than once, has claimed problems and we are to believe him or automatically fault the factory mechanism  ?

You bring up the Remington board and suggest that that brand has no issues ?   On every board I visit, the Rem. 700 safety situation is a pretty hot debate as of late, and has been for years.

[trotterlg]

Every maker has issues with some rifles.  Just seems to me that the H&R board spends a lot of time just figureing out how to just make them go bang.  I would not argue that a Safety should work, but in most cases the Remingtons will shoot when you pull the trigger and will hit a paper plate at 100 yards.  Larry

[LONGTOM]

Out of all the Handis I have, which is quit a few, none of them won't hit that paper plate at 100 and the only one that has really had any FTFs was my 35 Whelen and I still say it is mostly a problem with the ammo/primer.



LONGTOM

[thejanitor]

  These little rifles can function well, however it seems that a lot of stars have to align before there is a truly excellent and reliable one.  Larry

 Perspective seems to be the difference in ones stars. I guess I can thank my "lucky stars" we have several reliable Handis.    thejanitor

[trotterlg]

The factory knows they have a FTF problem with these rifles.  They will replace the transfer bar system with a new one.  Goes for any rifle, so it must be a common known problem I would say.  Good luck with yours, many people find theirs loose in the action while they are in a tree stand.  Larry

[quickdtoo]

Good luck with yours, many people find theirs loose in the action while they are in a tree stand.  Larry

SOME people have had problems with transfer bars, to say a person is lucky to not have a problem is ludicrous (which mean ridiculously absurd for anyone that doesn't know!!) I've only had one fail out of all my H&Rs, MOST people will never have one fail! 

Tim

[trotterlg]

It is probably fairly uncommon, but common enough for the factory to offer a fix for it.  I can say for sure that no one in the free world has ever had a transfer bar fail on a Savage.    Larry

[Shu]

I have read this thing alot. What I decided was the original poster isn't sure what he did. he did say he found blood but the trail ran out. Then he said he's a disabled vet and ain't going to track a deer into the woods. If he is a vet , Thank you for your service. If he is disabled hunt a little closer to the road or find some new buddies to hunt with. To many inconsistancies and excuses for me.

If you ain't gonna do the right thing don't go into the field.

[Sourdough]

I have five of these little guns.  Except for the .35 Whelen, the other four have never had a fail to fire.  My 30-06 has had several hundred rounds shot through it and it has never failed to fire.  Often it is the only rifle I have with me when I go out into the bush.  It is the only thing keeping me from becoming part of the food chain.  I depend on it completely, and it has never failed me.  I would not hesitate to shoot anything I want out to 500 yards.