at what distance do you sight your rifle in..

[wareagleguy]

After reading all this all I can say is if you have not already shot at the distance it is all a guess!!  Either practice the distance you will ever shoot or pass on the shot!  IS THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND! 

[Range Rider]

Sorry Greybeard, with all your years of shooting you don't know that a bullet does not rise after leaving the bore.  The bullet regardless of caliber or speed cannot over come gravity.  The bullet begins its decent after leaving the bore of the rifle.  With  the rifle sights the bullet will cross the line of sight 2 times depending on the setting.  The pull of gravity is constant and unrelenting.  A bullet traveling at 2,000 feet per second will fall more over a one hundred yard flight than a bullet traveling at 4,000 feet per second.  The pull of gravity is the same on each bullet, however the bullet moving at 4,000 FPS spends less time in the grasp of gravity than does the 2,000 FPS bullet. 

Early shooters new they had to lift the bore of their rifles to hit distant targets.  Hence "Kentucky" windage.   The confusion comes about when shooters do not understand basic terms of marksmanship.  You must know the difference between line of bore and line of sight. The line of bore is a straight thru the bore to infinity.  The line of sight is from your eye to the target.  It's impossible [Against the law of Gravity] for the bullet to rise above the line of the bore. However as stated the bullet does pass through the line of sight twice.  Once at a few yards in front at a few yards fromt he muzzle and again at the point the rifle is zeroed.  The bullet then travels above the line of sight , but not above the line of bore.

The bullet does not travel in any kind of perfect arc.  The arc of bullet travel is an elongated arc.  For example, if your rifle is sighted at 300 yards  the bullet  will be at the highest point of arch at 180 yrads. From that point on the bullet is taveling on a downward course. This high point  or odinate of the arc is where the bullet seems to be falling faster as it moves to the zero point. As stated the pull fo gravity is constant.  The pull is the same at 50 yds as it is at 200 yards.from your muzzle. The reason the bullet is falling faster is because it is losing velocity more rapidly and is in the grasp of gravity longer. For precise long range shooting a marksman must understand the flight of the bullet he is firing.  This is long range firing first week 101 and then it gets real.http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/leadertimes/sports/s_194135.html

RR

[Dixie Dude]

Best to look at the ballistics charts in the Shooters Bible or look it up on a reloaders program on the internet.  I have seen the ballistics charts and sometimes if you zero a say .30-60 at 25 yards it is zeroed at 100 yards.  However if you zero at 200 yards it may be zeroed at 50 yards also, but it may be 2" high at 100 yards and 4" low at 300 yards.  Depends on a lot of factors, bullet weight, speed, diameter.  Check the ballistics charts.  I can keep my 30-06 at 2" high at 100 yards for more range, yet my 45-70 3" high at 100 yards so it will be 3" low at 200 yards. 

[Graybeard]

Clearly you do not understand that the sighting in process with a scope causes the bullet path to rise due to the fact that when you sight in a scope you cause a tilt upward by a tiny bit of the barrel. Yes when a rifle is properly sighted in the bullet is indeed rising from the moment it leaves the barrel until it reaches the apex of it's trajectory somewhere way down range then it begins to drop.

Yes if but ONLY IF the barrel were parallel to the ground then the bullet will begin falling and continue to do so. If that were the case then no one would ever kill anything past a couple hundred yards as that's as far as the bullet would go from most field positions.

Go back to Ballistics 101 and this time pay attention in class.

Sorry Greybeard, with all your years of shooting you don't know that a bullet does not rise after leaving the bore.  The bullet regardless of caliber or speed cannot over come gravity.  The bullet begins its decent after leaving the bore of the rifle.  With  the rifle sights the bullet will cross the line of sight 2 times depending on the setting.  The pull of gravity is constant and unrelenting.  A bullet traveling at 2,000 feet per second will fall more over a one hundred yard flight than a bullet traveling at 4,000 feet per second.  The pull of gravity is the same on each bullet, however the bullet moving at 4,000 FPS spends less time in the grasp of gravity than does the 2,000 FPS bullet. 

Early shooters new they had to lift the bore of their rifles to hit distant targets.  Hence "Kentucky" windage.   The confusion comes about when shooters do not understand basic terms of marksmanship.  You must know the difference between line of bore and line of sight. The line of bore is a straight thru the bore to infinity.  The line of sight is from your eye to the target.  It's impossible [Against the law of Gravity] for the bullet to rise above the line of the bore. However as stated the bullet does pass through the line of sight twice.  Once at a few yards in front at a few yards fromt he muzzle and again at the point the rifle is zeroed.  The bullet then travels above the line of sight , but not above the line of bore.

The bullet does not travel in any kind of perfect arc.  The arc of bullet travel is an elongated arc.  For example, if your rifle is sighted at 300 yards  the bullet  will be at the highest point of arch at 180 yrads. From that point on the bullet is taveling on a downward course. This high point  or odinate of the arc is where the bullet seems to be falling faster as it moves to the zero point. As stated the pull fo gravity is constant.  The pull is the same at 50 yds as it is at 200 yards.from your muzzle. The reason the bullet is falling faster is because it is losing velocity more rapidly and is in the grasp of gravity longer. For precise long range shooting a marksman must understand the flight of the bullet he is firing.  This is long range firing first week 101 and then it gets real.http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/leadertimes/sports/s_194135.html

RR

[tangob5]

I have my hunting rifles sighted in at 200 yards.  I then verify where the POI is at 50, 100, 150, 250 and 300 yards and have those numbers pasted in my flip up scope covers.  Anything beyond 300 yards usually gets a walk unless I can close the distance. 

Regarding the rise and fall of a bullet in flight (quoted from a source):
 
"The "line of aim" is a line straight from the shooter's eye, through the sighting device, to the target. The bullet starts off below the LOA by the distance between the center of the sighting device and the center of the bore. This is called the "sight over bore" distance. The axis of the bore is not parallel to the LOA-- the bore is angled slightly upwards. This causes the bullet to start off with some "upward" velocity. As it flies down-range, it rises to meet the point of aim (POA) which is where the LOA intersects with the target."

[mechanic]

Perzackly. He knows it he just likes to argue and I'm tiring of it.

I've missed two deer with a rifle I used for the first time this year.  Having sighted in at 100, a little high, I really had not shot the gun at further distances.  What I found is that at 200 I was almost 8" high.  I sighted in dead on at 200 and backed up to 100.  I am about 2" low....at 50 I am just a mite low.  Not at all what I expected.  Now I have to go to my nieces house to set up in the pasture and try at longer distances, even though it is unlikely I will shoot much beyond 200 yds.  The trajectory on this 280 with this load is unlike anything I've ever owned....but I like it.

Ben

[bilmac]

Mechanics experience brings up something I often wonder about. What if he has the rifle sighted to cross the line of sight the FIRST time  not at 25 Y but maybe clear out at say 150. Wouldn't that pretty well explain the numbers he is getting except the 2" low at 100, but maybe he had a little mirage or something with that group. That group defies almost any explanation.

I worry about this idea more with 22 rimfires. If I zero at 50 how do I know if the bullet is crossing the line of sight the first time or the second time? I know, shoot shoot shoot

[PowPow]

...If I zero at 50 how do I know if the bullet is crossing the line of sight the first time or the second time?...

use an external ballistic calculator: here's one:
http://www.biggameinfo.com/BalCalc.aspx
Use .125 for a ballistic coefficent for off-the-shelf 22 ammo.
Use the velocity listed on the box.

Should find that a 22 LR rises thru LOS at about 17-25 yards and then drops thru LOS at 50 yards.
Where it rises and drops is dependent in several things, but one variable that seems to have the greatest effect is muzzle velocity.
The calc on a 40 vmax for my 22-250, sighted at 100, shows that it never crosses, just comes up tangent at 100, then falls.

[Coyote Hunter]

... If I zero at 50 how do I know if the bullet is crossing the line of sight the first time or the second time? I know, shoot shoot shoot

Go to www.huntingnut.com and download their free ballistic calculator "Point Blank".  I've used quite a few over the yeqrs and this is the one I use daily.

[AtlLaw]

Go to www.huntingnut.com and download their free ballistic calculator "Point Blank".

+1

[thejeeper]

Greybeard and Range, you are BOTH right. Shooting a scoped/sighted rifle, the TRAJECTORY has an arc. Conversely, if the barrel is level to the horizon, the bullet begins dropping the milli-second it leaves the muzzle. Many guys have a belief that the bullet rises after it leaves the muzzle. They are not taking into consideration that the barrel is not held level when shooting.

OK, ANYWAY~  I used to shoot competitively and knowing YOUR rifle is the best way to begin your scope to target alignment. FWIW, without causing any further arguments (as this original post was supposed to be for opinions and experiences), I begin my centerfire rifle shooting at +/- 20 yards. I learned this trick from a retired gunsmith. In MY EXPERIENCE, it is absolutely accurate - depending on your caliber and load. I zero at 20 yards and I am zeroed again at 250 yards. Depending on caliber and load, bullet weight, etc..this is what works very well for ME. If I have time to hit the range, I just set up at 150 and pop a few rounds. I know I can easily shoot out to 300 yards with no hold over for my hunting set up. (.270/130gr.). This is all on a perfect 65 degree day with no wind, of course!!    The point of impact at 150 yards is 3" high and the point of impact at 300 yards is 3" low. Us men all know that 3" isn't very much.....(!) Put the reticle on the center of the chest behind the shoulder and squeeze. Instant venison.

Again, depending on your caliber and load, this is really accurate. I found that the .223 Rem, .270, 7mm Mag and .300 WM are nearly identical in trajectory out to 300 yards. The exception is the .300wm hits about an inch higher at 300 yards.  Go ahead, try it out!!  You will be surprised.