Springfield 1903, A3, Mark I Sporter problems

[Rusty Bore]

Due to a recent theft, I'm having to build a new hunting rifle, the Springfield Armory made some wonderful military rifles to work with. The stolen rifles were 1903A3's, the new one I'm building is a new old stock Mark I rifle that I purchased through the NRA some 50 or so years ago. The problem isn't with the rifle, it's with the fact that it flattens the soft points of the ammunition.

My original two rifles had what was called "Point Protectors" that were made of a light spring steel that kept the loaded shells from moving foreword into the front of the magazine. I know some of you old timers know about these as they were popular in the 50's when so many of these rifles were being sporterized after WW-II. I have talked with some of the major parts suppliers and they can't seem to help me in finding one or they have never heard of them.

How about it, anyone know what I'm talking about and know where I can purchase one?

Thanks,
Rusty Bore

[Frank46]

Try googling "dayton traister". Think they still make the tru-feed gizmo you spoke about. Question, The 03 was designed around spitzer point bullets. Where in the loading process (loading ammo from mag to chamber using the bolt are your bullets getting flattened?. Check to make sure that the mag/trigger guard is properly inletted. I has a similar problem as the corners of the 03 floorplate were catching on the stock and preventing it from being where it is supposed to be. Removed some wood and feeds fine. hope this helps. Frank

[Brithunter]

Try googling "dayton traister". Think they still make the tru-feed gizmo you spoke about. Question, The 03 was designed around spitzer point bullets. Where in the loading process (loading ammo from mag to chamber using the bolt are your bullets getting flattened?. Check to make sure that the mag/trigger guard is properly inletted. I has a similar problem as the corners of the 03 floorplate were catching on the stock and preventing it from being where it is supposed to be. Removed some wood and feeds fine. hope this helps. Frank

Ahhh pardon me but the 03 Springfield was designed around the 30-03 cartridge which used a 220 grain RN bullet surely. It was not until the Germans adopted the "Spitzer" bullet in 1905 than the US re-devloped the 30-03 into the 30-06 using a 150 grain Spitzer type bullet.

Another fix would be to solder tapered steel strips inside the magazine at the shoulder slope to retain the cartridges to the rear under recoil.

[Rusty Bore]

Well now lets see if I can explain some of this problem.

The 1903 cloaded cartridge was designed with a full metal jacketed bullet with 167.5 grains, this bullet didn't care that the recoil caused it to slam into the front of the magazine on recoil (it doesn't have or didn't need a shoulder stop to prevent this. I have owned a number of these rifles and they all tread a soft pointed bullet the same. I fired my current project a number of times in it's original military stock and issued condition and the results were the same. This is a common problem with these rifles and that is why someone made what was called a "Point Saver". The devise that I'm speaking of worked very well, was simple and was removable for easy cleaning.

Thanks for the information about Dayton Traister, I will contact them as soon as I get off this site to see what they may have.

Thank you all for your support,

Rusty Bore

[Frank46]

Brithunter, hey how's your swede mauser doing?. And yes it was origionally 30-03 then as you said changed to the spitzer bullet. Frank

[Brithunter]

Frank,

       It's sitting in the cabinet and only had some range time. Not been tot eh range for a couple of months now due to lack of time and poor weather then there is the .280 Ackley Improved project. I fired the first round to check the chambering this morning out back  I did the chambering yesterday I'll have to size that case and pop in a bullet to check the feeding then pull the barrel and give the chamber a polish as I didn't do that as I wanted to see how it looked before doing so. This is my first chambering job  . Using a Lupe I can see some tiny radial lines on the 40 degree shoulder so a bit of polishing may make it look more profesional. The formed case measures 0.469" at the pressure ring, 0.454" at the new shoulder and the neck measures 0.315" which means that the Remington factory round I fired had expanded the neck 0.004" and that's not bad at all having only 0.002" clearence a side hopefully will bode well for case life and accuracy. The case shortened to 2.516" in length.

I followed Ackleys method of chambering 0.004" short so that the factory ammunition is a slight crush fit in the chamber.

[Frank46]

Have heard that the folks in Great Britan had some pretty lousy weather. Glad to hear your 280 AI job turned out ok. Keep us posted. Frank

[gunnut69]

Of course the simplest fix would be a switch to a polymer tipped bullet such as the AccuBond...Or even the Reminton Bronze point.

[Brithunter]

Have heard that the folks in Great Britan had some pretty lousy weather. Glad to hear your 280 AI job turned out ok. Keep us posted. Frank

Ok I chambered the barrel using a Forster Go Guage on Tuesday and fired one round on Wednesday after collecting the ammunition from the shop then Weds afternoon took the barrel off and polished the chamber with some metal polish and a picece of very fine emery cloth. More of a burnishing op really as extraction was very easy and smooth then Weds evening fired the other five rounds for the cases I need so have fired a total of 6 rounds through it now. Three of the cases will become dummies to test feeding from the magazine. Three are wanted by the proof house to use to make up proofing rounds. Here is the first one fired before the chamber was polished:-





Alongside the factory Remington 156 Grain bullet. The expansion rings measures 0.468", the shoulder 0.454" dia. The shoulder is 2.090" from the head of the cartridge and the fired neck mesurement is 0.315" which is nice as the unfired factory ammunition measures 0.311" so it gives 0.002" per side clearance so should a different make of cases vary slightly in thickness at the neck it should cause a problem yet it's tight enough hopefully to help with precision. Rolling the cases across a flat surface shows no noticable neck run out but I'll need to check with a Vee block and DTI to see how good it actually is.

Considering I have to cut a few corners in the chambering set up and could not do it the best possible way I am pleased with the result .

The bullet in the dummy was Remington 175 Gr Semi Spitzer. It's since been changed for a 139 Grn BTSP Hornady as I did not get the sizing set turned down enough and the Remington bullet was just a trifle lose. A slight adjustment to the die cured that little issue . Right now the barrel is soaking with Forest Foaming bore cleaner to remove any copper left behind by my fire forming shots. I scrubbed the bore first with P-H 009 then patched it out but I want it almost spotless to go to proof. Hopefully it will only be a week before it's returned. I could make an appointment and take it myself but they charge double for that and it will take most of the day as they would have to load the proof ammunition whilst I waited and adding the traveling time to Birmingham and back. Although I would like to go and see the place right now I cannot spare the time.

Of course next thing is to get some powder and check load data for the Ackley Improved. Ackley suggests 63.0 Gr of IMR 4350 behind the 140 grain bullet for a claimed 3320 fps. I'll check more sources for data and borrow the clubs chronograph to see what this 23" barrel gives velocity wise. Hmm Just did a search and found some interesting data. The Nosler site was very useful and it seems that IMR 4350 is a very good powder. H 4831SC gets a lot of mention but IMR 4831 shades it for velocity in their listings so we shall see what I can get locally. OH the Vhit N160 and N165 also seem contenders. The load in Axkleys book is a bit on the hot side it seems as Nosler list 58.0 Gr as the max load with a 140 grain bullet.

Oh gunnut, . not every oen lieks Hollow points and that's really what the ballistic tips and bronze points are.

[gunnut69]

Well I suppose I should have added a bit more information. There are several bullet types designed to limit damage of the point by recoil while the round is in the magazine Noslers Protected point bullets come to mind. Of course if one hust has to use a bullet prone to point damage then a fix is in order. The normal one would be a thin strip soldered, welded, pr rivetted to the inside of the magazine box at a point where the shoulder of a round is located. It is also possible to cerase the magazine box at this point to form a retaining ridge on the inside. It just seemed to me that sometimes simple is best.. I wonder at this also as though I'm not a great afficiendo of the 1903 I've dealt with several and have not had this problem rear it's ugly head. Perhaps a magazine spring is a bit light? In any case good luck.

[Rusty Bore]

 ::)Good Saturday morning

The issue isn't changing bullets to ease the problem. I am an avid shooter, reloader and most of all hunter. I have a number of weapons in my arsonel that don't have a problem shooting any bullets I wish to load.

Many of you will not agree with what I'm about to say so let me just say that I won't offer or exspect any gripping about this. My first trip north to the moose and bear contry was with my father in 1946 after he returned from WWII, we did a moose hunt using Springfield 03A3's and came home with two moose and one grizzly, I have returned to hunt moose 35 times sence then and have used a Springfield 1903A3 loaded with Nozler Partician bullet on every hunt sence 1955. I have been successful every hunt using this combination of firearm and ammunition. It's not what you use but how you use it. I love my Springfields.

Most of you would probably never use this combination because there are faster, heavier, larger calibures available today that may well work just as good, I just don't happen to believe they are necessary if you know how to place your shots.

I really do know how to fix this rifle so it doesn't flatten the points, my original question was. Does anyone know if the "Point Savor" that was originally manufactured to prevent this was still available and where might I purchase one. My theory is, Why make something that is already produced and works? I don't believe in re-inventing the wheel unless there is a better way.

Thanks to all of you that responded to my request, it's nice to know that nice people will help when they can.

Rusty Bore

[Brithunter]

Rusty I can understand how you feel and wish you luck. perhaps if you find one then please post a photo of it as I had never heard of thsi before reading this thread and would like to see what it is. As for the Springfield I nearly had a custom rifle built on one by Bremmer Arms before they dod a boo boo and folder up quickly taking Parker-Hale with them. It was to have been a .257 Roberts AI....................... oh well.