I got to build one of these.

[Lee1966]

I have got to build one of thies Cannons. I have a trailer that would be able to hull this beast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KoA0UyEk1U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH2Arwt2R7E&feature=related

[Double D]

Yeah, but you would not be able to talk about here, because it isn't a pre 1899 replica...you would have to talk about over on exotic weapons board.

[Cat Whisperer]

Agreed - cool vid. cool cannon, but just outside the perspective of this forum.
 

[Lee1966]

Oh ok sorry guys though because it is Black powder and a cannon it could be posted here.
I emailed the guy for prints or detail photos of this cannon.

[Double D]

Kerry,

Also ask the guy if he will send you a copy of his build letter from ATF.  If  he doesn't have a letter and he sends you plans, send  a copy of the plans and a letter to ATF and ask for permission to build.  If you get permission to build post a copy of the letter and we will allow you to post  about your gun here.  We have had a couple of folks who have done this and have got approval letter from ATF.  You have nothing to loose, everything to gain.

[GGaskill]

Looks kind of like an M1897 75mm French gun on steroids.

[Ex 49'er]

Looks like that thing would weigh a ton. Definitely too heavy for 1 person to move.

[dominick]

The loading tool is interesting.

[Double D]

Looks kind of like an M1897 75mm French gun on steroids.

Not even close...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_de_75_mod%C3%A8le_1897

[Cat Whisperer]

Looks kind of like an M1897 75mm French gun on steroids.

Not even close...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_de_75_mod%C3%A8le_1897

Some elements of the 1917 155mm

[dominick]

It does look a good bit like the ww2 version of the French 75.  Here a link to a picture of one.

http://www.timemoneyandblood.com/HTML/museums/CampRoberts/CR_artillery.html

[Lee1966]

I have to agree with you guys this thing looks like a pig. If and when I get prints and a BATF letter I will let you know. Have to ask why would you need a letter from BATF? I had a O-1 FFL for 12 years and ANY Black powder fired weapon dose not have to file BATF form. There is no self contained cartrige loaded as like in a 105mm or German 88. I know above a 50BMG like 20mm there is a form to fill out and a $200.00 tax stamp like a class 3 or 4 weapon like a live AK-47 or M-16.

I would rather build a mortar like the FL one but with a mod on the powder chamber. Some of Doug's idea and some of mine, but based on the buld idea Doug did on his GB mortar. Lip the chamber in and weld it on the outside.

For now I way to many irons in the fire.

Kerry

[Cat Whisperer]

You know then how picky batf can be.
There are several sections of the law you need to become very familiar with - one part mentions pre-1898 cannons/designs or REPLICAs are OK.  Another part defines a 'firearm' for which the preceding is an exception.  AND then the killer - destructive devices (greater than .50 cal etc. etc.).

Having the letter of approval is your insurance that they think your project fits in somewhere other than Class III.

[Lee1966]

You know then how picky batf can be.
There are several sections of the law you need to become very familiar with - one part mentions pre-1898 cannons/designs or REPLICAs are OK.  Another part defines a 'firearm' for which the preceding is an exception.  AND then the killer - destructive devices (greater than .50 cal etc. etc.).

Having the letter of approval is your insurance that they think your project fits in somewhere other than Class III.

I am fully aware of class 3 weapons as a FFL dealer in the past. I was part in a project were 20mm cases were necked down to .500". Like a 22-250 on steriods big time. Our reciever need no BATF letter. Was based on a Remington 700 but as a single shot. But see that is a self contained cartrige though, not black powder. Personaly I feel BATF sticks there nose in were it is not needed. Guse if a letter is need one might want to get one. But you know they at any time can VOID out a letter and base it on any one part of a build I have seen this first hand. Go into building AR 15's FN FALS and see were ATF gets anel, better yet Build a Letter cleared 1919A1 belt gun to fire simiauto. Letter for right side plate, letter for tigger letter for WELDED up reciever ECT. Remember thies people like to write the rules to were it fits what they want when they want. PLease do not take my post in the wrong way.

[Double D]

I have to agree with you guys this thing looks like a pig. If and when I get prints and a BATF letter I will let you know. Have to ask why would you need a letter from BATF? I had a O-1 FFL for 12 years and ANY Black powder fired weapon dose not have to file BATF form. There is no self contained cartrige loaded as like in a 105mm or German 88. I know above a 50BMG like 20mm there is a form to fill out and a $200.00 tax stamp like a class 3 or 4 weapon like a live AK-47 or M-16.

I would rather build a mortar like the FL one but with a mod on the powder chamber. Some of Doug's idea and some of mine, but based on the buld idea Doug did on his GB mortar. Lip the chamber in and weld it on the outside.

For now I way to many irons in the fire.

Kerry

 
Since we aren't lawyers, and since there is so much bad information on the internet about this subject, for specific definitions of this law we refer everyone to ATF for interpretation of their laws.  

Because we needed something to define what this board is about when we started it we establish this criteria for this forum.

Read and Heed! Board Rules
 

1.  Any firearm not designed or redesigned for using rim fire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition

and

2. Manufactured in or before 1898...or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1898

or

3. Any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.  

If you wish to provide us with a letter from ATF defining whatever other device you wish to discuss as an antique we will allow the discussion. Provide the letter first.  

We also are not going to have a debate over what the GCA  and NFA says or doesn't say.  There is already to much misinformation on the internet and we are not going to add to it.  Tim and I are not Lawyers and not qualified to give legal advice on the GCA or NFA. Please see your nearest U.S. Attorney for legal advice on the GCA or NFA.

If you click on the link you will see an expanded explanation of the purpose of the rule.  But Mainly we don't want some  Rookie  ATF Agent using our board as a hit board...Rookie being a synonym for Gallus gallus domesticus feces.

But the letter is required our for posting on our board.

[Lee1966]

Still have not herd from this person as to his build. Also posted the question on his video "Did you get a letter from BATF on your build? I would like to build one.".

Will see if I here from this person. As soon as I have something from this person that is worth posting I will let you all know.

I still like the FL BB mortar build and is more real for me to do.

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php?topic=28013.0

[Double D]

Kerry,

Do let us know if there is a letter, it is an interesting build....

[MR.GADGET]

What I see is that its a BP cannon.

The problem comes when you add a spring recoil system as they have.
If I remember that part is what they have the problem with. You can not use spring loaded devices or a hydro system.

That sends it into a DD zone.

For the most part it is the same as a lot of cannons and mortars, BP, Ball , and FP to kick it off.
It just is lots bigger and looks funny.

Like I said the recoil system is what changes things.

[GGaskill]

Like I said the recoil system is what changes things.

Except a hydraulic recoil system was a major part of the French 75mm gun of 1897.

[Double D]

Mr. Gadget,

You won't find  anything like that describe in the  GCA or the  NFA,  but it is irrelevant, as this gun  with out a letter from  ATF doesn't meet the criteria for this board.

[Victor3]

I am fully aware of class 3 weapons as a FFL dealer in the past. I was part in a project were 20mm cases were necked down to .500". Like a 22-250 on steriods big time. Our reciever need no BATF letter.

 Necked down to .500", it wouldn't be considered a DD. 50 cal bore (for a 'modern' rifle) is the cutoff diameter.

[Victor3]

The problem comes when you add a spring recoil system as they have.
If I remember that part is what they have the problem with. You can not use spring loaded devices or a hydro system.

That sends it into a DD zone.

Like I said the recoil system is what changes things.

 Then I must be in big trouble (no, not really)...



 On various occasions I've been told that Federal law says...

1. Any rifled BP cannon is a DD

2. Any Breech-loading BP cannon is DD

3. Using smokeless in a BP cannon makes it a DD

4. Any BP cannon using 209 primers is a DD

5. Any BP cannon over 2" bore is a DD

6. Any BP cannon that can shoot over one mile is a DD

7. Any BP cannon with a scope attached is a DD

8. Shooting anything other than a round ball in a BP cannon makes it a DD

 Never found an individual who could quote chapter & verse in the law that prohibits any of the above though...

[Cat Whisperer]

Good rumors!

One needs to do two things: 

a) read the law yourself (we have a link to it in the stickies).

b) get the letter from batf because they have a lot of policies that affect you as well.

[Double D]

Victor,

You list is exactly why we don't have discussions about what is  lawful under  GCA  and NFA, to much unsubstantiated information.  We only say what is lawful for this board.