Another "picking a Handi Rifle" post

[NorSask]

I am new to firearms and hunting, and have decided that I'm going to get a Handi rifle. I like the simplicity and the price, and have had a very hard time finding any bad reviews online. I don't know much about the performance characteristics of different cartridges, so I'm not sure what gun to get.

What I'm looking for is something which is 'flat shooting', basically at around 100 yards the bullet will hit where you point, so a new hunter doesn't have to calculate how much a shot will drift, rise or fall. I'm looking for something that has a fairly light recoil, from plinking with the .22 I can tell I'm not a very good shot and a heavy recoil seems like it would make it harder to aim and harder to practice for extended periods. My target game would likely be whitetail and mule deer. I've also been invited by my cousin's husband to hunt "pigs" with him, I don't know if these are feral pigs or boar. I'm guessing 25-40 lbs? Cost is also a consideration, I checked at the Canadian Tire and a box of the same brand cartridges (Winchester Super X) can run anywhere from $16.99 to $38. I plan on practicing a fair bit, and don't want to get into loading my own at this time, so I'd like something that's reasonably priced- about a buck a shot.

The reading I've done online has sort of led me to the 30-30 Winchester, the .243 Winchester, or the 25-06 Remington. All are described as flat shooting, light recoil cartridges for deer-sized game. 30-30s are a few bucks cheaper than the other two, but all three are within my price range. Which of these three would you all recommend, and is there another cartridge possibility I've overlooked? I have not decided yet if I will hunt with a scope or open sights, I was planning on deciding after spending some time at the range.

I also had another question about rimmed cartridges- the only negative comment I've encountered about Handi Rifles is that the spent shell ejector isn't very good. Would I be better off with a rimmed cartridge, like the 30-30?

Thanks in advance!

[mcwoodduck]

As far as a standard Deer and Pig cartridge.
WOW what an open ended question.
Personally.
If you are looking at Open sights  30-30
If you are looking to get a scope 308 or 30-06.
All three are standard calibers available im almost every store that sells ammo.
There are pleanty of loading for all three that would be inexpensive and work well.
You do not need premium bullets for deer or pigs.
I like heavier bullets.
In my 30-30 I like the 170 grain Soft points  I think I found a deal on the Remington soft points for my single shot Pistol.
In the 308 i like the 180 grain Round nose from remington.  The knock deer and pigs down.
I have a 30-06 but do not usually hunt with it, bought is as a loaner gun for friends and customers.
Scopeing options for me would be either of the following weaver scopes.
I like the weaver scopes I have quite a few of them on different rifles and have a few Leupolds as well.  i can not tell the difference between the Weaver V9, V7, or 4X and the Leupold Var X II scopes I have.  i think they are all the quality at 75 to 80% the price.
2.5-7X32 (V7) Low power good for in the woods but the 7X will let you look across a field to make a good hit if needed
3-9X38 (V9) good over all Scope
4X38 (forget the model #) Good fixed power more than enough for 100 yards or more with a good field of vision for in the woods No dialing no muss no fuss just aim and shoot.
All three scopes are usually under $200.

[APEX PREDATOR]

I agree mcwoodduck, but i have a 243 and it has killed 10 deer. I shot my first buck a big 8 pointer at 75 yards and it fell like a bag off rocks. My dad has shot deer 150 yards and it was lights out. Well i hope you find the right cartridge.
Apex

[spikehorn]

Go with the 30-30. It's more than enough for the hunting you plan on doing. Handi's seem to like rimmed cartridges. Mine also seems to like the 170 grainers. I have a Nikon pro staff 2X7X32 on mine and they can be had for around $130 US.

[APEX PREDATOR]

I feal stupid because of how much i know about guns and anything about them. What is a rimmed cartridge?

[mechanic]

A rimmed cartridge is just that, the head of the cartridge has a rim that it stops against when chambered, and this is the "headspace" limit for that cartridge.  Other types headspace off the shoulder at the front of the cartridge.  If you are not reloading, neither is a major factor, other than I agree that Handi's seem overall to do better with a rimmed cartridge.

Given your selection, I would go with the 30-30.

Ben

[quickdtoo]

I also had another question about rimmed cartridges- the only negative comment I've encountered about Handi Rifles is that the spent shell ejector isn't very good. Would I be better off with a rimmed cartridge, like the 30-30?

Thanks in advance!

Welcome! If you buy any H&R centerfire rifle made in the last three years, it will have an extractor, they only use ejectors on rimfires and shotguns starting in ~2007. Rimmed or rimless is of no consequence, the only reason rimmed chamberings are favored is because they're all low pressure in comparison to most H&R rimless chamberings, with ejectors the high pressure chamberings had a habit of failing to eject, but with extractors it's a non-issue.

If you're hunting areas that you expect to see game much past 200-250yds, the 25-06 would be a much better choice than the 30-30, under 200yds, it would be an excellent choice.  Since you're in Canada, I'd expect those deer are going to be much bigger than our deer down here also, so the 243 may not be the best choice either, just depends on what kind a range you expect to be shooting.  

Tim

[mcwoodduck]

I feal stupid because of how much i know about guns and anything about them. What is a rimmed cartridge?

There are five types of cases. (eight if you count case less That uses a combustible case, Trounds that were triangle shaped, and the Gyro Jet- Rocket, that the case was the bullet.)
Rimed - Has a rim larger than the case wall.  Like a 38 Special has a rim  -Head spaces on the rim- traditionally they are revolver and lever action calibers.
Rimless -Rim is the same size as the base of the case - 30-06 - Head Spaces on the shoulder
Semi Rimless - Rim is slightly larger than the case base.  like 32 ACP.
Rebated - Rim is smaller in diameter than the base of the case - 284 Winchester that is a blown out 308 case. Head spaces on the shoulder
Belted-  the case has a belt that is larger than the case base and the rim is the same size as the belt.- 375 H&H is the parent case to most of these- Head spaces on the belt.
30-30 is a rimed case.
308- 30-06 are rimless but work well in the Handi rifle. The rimless cases were disgned by Mauser for the bolt action they stack better on each other.

[trotterlg]

There are a few things to consider about picking a Handi over another rifle especially if you are in Canada.  I love to tinker with these guns, and they are lots of fun, but if this is going to be your only gun I would consider something else.  In gereral, a bolt action will be more accurate with a greater chance of getting an accurate reliable rifle right out of the box.  Factory service will not exist for you in Canada, if you have a problem it will have to go to a representative of H&R in Canada, you will not be able to send it back to the factory for any reason.  I do not know if H&R will sell barrels to you, I don't see how they could, they have to have the receiver to fit the barrel and you cannot ship that.  Someone like Savage or Remington will probably have better service up there.  It is also nice to have a repeat shot avaliable to you while hunting, not really necessary, but nice.  Talk to a few others about your choice, there are Bolt guns that cost less than the Handi's do.  Larry

[APEX PREDATOR]

ok well thanks for telling me what rimmed is. I looked at a 243 and 30-30 cartridge and couldnt see any difference?

[Spanky]

I would get a Marlin 30-30 and put a decent scope on it. You will have plenty of punch with the 30-30 and 5 shots to get the job done.
If you are only interested in a Handi Rifle I would go with a 30-30 or 45-70. If you shoot the 405 gr. Remington ammo in the 45-70 is has light recoil and will kill anything.



Spanky

[quickdtoo]

ok well thanks for telling me what rimmed is. I looked at a 243 and 30-30 cartridge and couldnt see any difference?

The 30-30 rim is much bigger in diameter than the case head, the 243 is almost identical at less than .003" difference. The 30-30 rim is .506" compared to the case head at .4195".

Tim

http://ammoguide.com/cgi-bin/aicompare.cgi?sn=LgnpRQbHjB&loadset=35&xxglbl=1

[mcwoodduck]

There are a few things to consider about picking a Handi over another rifle especially if you are in Canada.  I love to tinker with these guns, and they are lots of fun, but if this is going to be your only gun I would consider something else.  In gereral, a bolt action will be more accurate with a greater chance of getting an accurate reliable rifle right out of the box.  Factory service will not exist for you in Canada, if you have a problem it will have to go to a representative of H&R in Canada, you will not be able to send it back to the factory for any reason.  I do not know if H&R will sell barrels to you, I don't see how they could, they have to have the receiver to fit the barrel and you cannot ship that.  Someone like Savage or Remington will probably have better service up there.  It is also nice to have a repeat shot avaliable to you while hunting, not really necessary, but nice.  Talk to a few others about your choice, there are Bolt guns that cost less than the Handi's do.  Larry

H&R is now part of Remington.
So the service arguemnt really does not exist,
Shooting at 100 yards or less at a deer or Pig with a 8 to 10 inch vital hit zone even having a 3" MOA rifle shooting a pattern more than a group (not saying the Handi is one.) you will be able to knock down deer and pigs 100 yards or under if you do your part.  the bolt action rifles are more money and few come with iron sights and for a first ig game rifle I think iron sights are a must.
First of all it cuts down on your initail out lay of money.  If the rifle is $300 out the door and you have $400 saved up you have $100 for ammo and a case.
If you buy a $400 rifle with your $400 you saved you don't have ammo.  I have a buddy that does this all the time.  Spends so much on the rifle and scope he can not afford to feed the rifle and get good with it.

[APEX PREDATOR]

Ok tim i understand now, i really didnt understand to know.

[45-70.gov]

30-30...all the power you need

357/38 special....lots of cheap practice sinc you don't shoot to well...little short on power

nikon prostaff.....the best scope for the money

open  sights  is  like shooting  a bow
a handi-cap....just for the chalenge

stick  with a scope

[Hit or Miss]

Don't be afraid to look into a .308.  I personally think it is a great all around caliber.  I use mine from coyotes to deer and wouldn't be afraid to tackle elk or moose with it.

[whiteoper]

Depending on which store you are buying from here in Canada check to see if the rifle is an ejector or extractor as I have seen many new old stock rifles in shops here in Alberta and when ordering from back east.

[gcrank1]

I think I would look at the .308 too if not having open sights (and having to buy a scope) is OK by you. If/when you ever do reload you can make it shoot everything from 32-20 and 30-30 equiv. loads on up to full loads, light to heavy bullets. Like Tim says, get it in extractor, in a Handi Rifle, then shoot it at different ranges as much as possible to learn it.

[NorSask]

Thanks very much guys, lots of useful information here. I was leaning towards the 30-30, and as I suspected, it seems it would be a good choice. I'll also keep the 30-06 and .308 in mind.

I wanted to address larry's post in particular:

There are a few things to consider about picking a Handi over another rifle especially if you are in Canada.  I love to tinker with these guns, and they are lots of fun, but if this is going to be your only gun I would consider something else.  In gereral, a bolt action will be more accurate with a greater chance of getting an accurate reliable rifle right out of the box.  Factory service will not exist for you in Canada, if you have a problem it will have to go to a representative of H&R in Canada, you will not be able to send it back to the factory for any reason.  I do not know if H&R will sell barrels to you, I don't see how they could, they have to have the receiver to fit the barrel and you cannot ship that.  Someone like Savage or Remington will probably have better service up there.  It is also nice to have a repeat shot avaliable to you while hunting, not really necessary, but nice.  Talk to a few others about your choice, there are Bolt guns that cost less than the Handi's do.  Larry

This was something that I was a bit concerned about, so I'll just ask outright- do people love the Handi Rifle because it's a good gun, or because it's a great platform for modifications?

I'm new to firearms, but I've been a guitar player for 20 years. A few years ago, one of the big guitar companies came out with a no-frills model they were selling for $150. Every review was 5/5 stars, and these guitars quickly developed a cult following. However, many of the people who were praising these guitars were guys who had a couple good guitars, and were buying these cheap instruments to hot-rod them. Great reviews were based on the fact that it was so cheap and so easy to modify, customize, hot rod etc. If someone were buying it just to have it as their one and only, they would have been disappointed because, well, it was pretty much a cheap crappy guitar

I'm a little worried that the Handi Rifles are the same, that those who love them are guys who are into tinkering with guns, swapping out parts, etc. I basically want something I can shoot, clean, and put in the closet. I don't know where this new hobby will take me, but right now, I'm not interested in getting into tinkering; I like the idea of hunting more than the idea of working on guns.

So, honestly, is the Handi Rifle a project gun?

My dad has offered to give me a dusty old Enfield .303 Brit, I may just register it, clean it up and use it until I know for sure what I want...

Thanks for all the feedback

[trotterlg]

You will get different answers depending on which board you ask this question.  They are great rifles to play with, nothig is better in my opinion.  Rossi's are near identical, but do not have the following or the parts avaliable for them, (however the price is far lower).  For trying out a wildcat or tinkering they cannot be beat.  Every serious hunting gun I have is something else.  Just depends on what you want and the level of performance you demand from it.  If you ask this question on the Savage board or the Remington board you will get some different opinions.  This is the H&R board, so people here like H&R's, it is just that simple.  Larry

[briannmilewis]

If you shoot the 405 gr. Remington ammo in the 45-70 is has light recoil and will kill anything.
Spanky

                                Wt    Recoil
.45-70 (405 FP)           7.5   18.7

.30-30 Win. (170 FP)   7.5   11

Spanky, I am not a seasoned rifleman, but the 45-70 405gr don't appear to be "light" recoil. Now I have heard it said many times the 405s push you more than hammer you as the recoil numbers would suggest. According to Chuck Hawks, more than 15ft/lb recoil is not conducive to long range sessions if you want to practice a lot rather than just sight in a few times per year. He is a beginner and does not want to reload...Handi or Marlin 30-30, or 357Mag H or 44Mag H (H is the Marlin new hardwood stocks that drop the 357 and 44 down to about $400 from $500+)...357 being the cheapest to feed at current prices.

For what it is worth.

[dougw47]

I have an H&R .223/5.56 HB that I shoot hogs with and a H&R 410/45 Colt that I carry in the truck.  The .45 Colt will take deer and hogs at any reasonable range and I am looking for a .30 cal bbl for the .223.

I have other rifles, but am really interested in picking up a few more Handi's, they are accurate enough for me and a lot of fun to shoot. If I can get a .30-30 win bbl, I would be really happy for a while.

Good luck on finding your "Handi!"  I trust and believe you will really like it, be it .30-30, .308 or .30-06.

[gcrank1]

GET that Enfield, and if your dad isnt a shooter and really 'knows' the rifle, spend a few bucks at a qualified gunsmith to check it over and make sure it is sound! Then get some ammo and go play. The .303 will have the power and recoil of at least a top load 30-30 and be heading toward the .308. Downside is the military sights, but you WILL learn on the cheap. BTW, the 'best' all round trainer is a decent .22LR, lots of cheap practice to learn the fundumentals. Kinda like learning the C and G cords.

[snapcrackpop]

I'd consider a Savage Edge in .243  You should be able to find it on sale for around $250 US.
Most guns will require some "tinkering" to get the best grouping, but Handis might be a little more so.

HOWEVER if you do get a Handirifle you might have a new hobby...shooting is fun!!!
I love my boy's .357 and here the .357 has a big following.

[pmeisel]

NorSask, I have 3 handis (444 Marlin, 12 ga, .410)... it is an excellent use it and put it away gun.  I haven't done anything to mine but clean them.

That said, I think you would appreciate your dad's .303.... it's a good cartridge for what you want to do. And over time it will develop sentimental value.

[Ron 1]

My dad has offered to give me a dusty old Enfield .303 Brit, I may just register it, clean it up and use it until I know for sure what I want..
get the 303 have it checked out and while you are there look at the .22 rimfires
that way you can shoot and practice all you want for cheep fun
pennys on the doller    a box of  20   303 ?? $20-$25   or  a box of 22s  ?? $5 for the good ones  and as cheep as $2-$3 for a box of 50 but that would be two guns but only one bought and one borrowed from dear ol dad
     rw