Asking a favor from the Atheists

[scotsman]

I agree with earlier posts that ethics is for the most part learned behavior. Since christianity is so deeply ingrained in our culture and thinking it is difficult to imagine ethics without religion. Or more specificly outside the christian faith. Yet are not good ethical people found in other parts of the world with other beliefs? Further yet think of all the dead religions of the past, surely there were ethical followers of Zoraster,Odin, and Athena. One could  also easily think of examples of very unethical behavior among these or any other faith. So by logic it seems that ethics really has little to do with religion. Most people are ethical when you consider the context of their customs and culture. I think I might best be described as an agnostic deist, I am certainly not capable of knowing that God exists,neither do I know that God doesn't exist. Surely the Supreme Being of the universe could have little interest or involvement in the daily lives of people if he does exist. So how do I explain my ethics and behavior? Learning,observing what is acceptable, making mistakes, what I was taught as a child,and participating in society. At its basest level that's what ethics are,behaviors necessary to participate in society.

[williamlayton]

Ethics and culture----hummmm!
Let me interject an example from Christian culture that has always made an impression on me.
In America, at one time, it was perfectly correct for a lady to wear make-up and jewelry--but not to drink---In the same Christian atmosphere in Germany, it was forbidden to wear make-up and jewelry----Beer was good.
Muslim law is a contradiction within its own bindings.
Most of ethics was developed as self-defense---do unto others.
In a world devoid of ethics is anarchy----and we have seen this in cultures historically and most recent. Stalins purges comes to mind.
Man is capable of all things un-ethical---we seem to invent them to suit our needs---ponzi schemes.
This has nothing to do with believeing or not believeing in God---David, of scripture, is an example.
To me believeing has nothing to do with logic/studies/contemplation/metaphysics/reason----but it is/has to do with/is important with not believeing/too the non-believer.
If there is a God---and I believe so---He is above this level of reasoning and just is---otherwise we are god.
Not believeing is logical on/in the human experience/box---but a god is not logical.
Blessings
  

[Victor3]

A few years ago after my mother was disabled enough that she had not been able to attend this church for awhile she ask me to take her. We went the following Sunday. My mother has been a member of this church for decades and when we went back not ONE person greeted her.
GuzziJohn

 A while back I heard a pastor on the radio talking about something similar. His question was...

 "Why is it that the Army of the Lord appears to be the only one that regularly abandons its wounded?"

 It's easy to understand why many people see no difference between the religious & irreligious.

 I have a Sister who's an atheist. If I have a problem, she'll offer to do anything she can to help. She's done so on occasion, even when it's been inconvenient for her. She does similar for friends and even for people she doesn't know all that well.

 Her attitude is simple. "If I'm available to help, why wouldn't I?"

 I believe it comes from our Mom, an (agnostic) OBGYN nurse for 40 years. Even today at 83, Mom would pull her eyeballs out and hand them to us if we needed them.

[slim rem 7]

 im pretty much in agreement with greybeard..i almost became at least agnostic once when after a two year study,i realized i didn t believe in the foundation of the religion i was a part of..
 then ,i remembered an series of happenings that happened when i was about 10 yrs old..
 i was kinda dense at that age, but after the third incident within a month i knew there had to be a higher power
that had something for me to do..as time went by,, i gained a testimony of the savior. i do know God, was,is ,an always will be in charge..
 13 grandchildren later an closer to the end of this life ,i can reflect on many little miracles that have happened in my life...the only thing i fear now is a slow painful death..but if that should be the case,it will be for me to learn
from the experience..he has his purpose in everything..

[bubba]

ok let me try this.  I am not a religious person.  I personally believe that organized religion is a crutch for the weak who can not face reality and need a reason to justify bad or good, and a money scam, so I do not participate.  I live my life the way I see fit.  I do not have to believe in a supreme being to do what is right and wrong. I used to attend church regularly.  I found it very hypocritical for a person to stand in front of me and tell me how I should live my life, when they are not living the same life.  Anyway my sanctuary is nature. I spend my reflection time there alone. A sunrise or sunset in the woods, resets me to where I should be.  I do not need a building or other people to tell me how I am doing.  I have been screwed over by more "religious people"  than others.  I also have a hard time with religon, since there are so many religions that believe one God. They profess there branch of the same religion is the only one.  How does one really know that?  Ok I am getting off topic, so I will end this.  I was raised in a home where there was not religion, even though my grandparents were very religious and my grandfather help to build the methodist church in my town. I was taught right and wrong and ethics from my parents.  I have taught my daughters the same way.  They are 19 and 21.  They do not smoke, drink or any of that stuff. One is finishing a bachelors degree in music and english education and the other is finishing her third semester in nursing.  Both are still virgins and want to be.  I guess you can instill beliefs, whch are societal and not religious. I feel if I live my life without screwing any one over and asking the person I have had a problem with for forgiveness, and get it, when I die, I will die in peace, which is " heaven."  If I die tormented, without finishing my business I need with people, then I will be in "hell".  So, I make it a point if I have a problem with someone I try to resolve it as soon as possible.  I dont need a person to sprinkle water on me and ask a supreme being to forgive me when I have not asked the person I wronged.  I guess that is about it. 

[Conan The Librarian]

Bubba summed up the way my atheist friends regard life. Any of them could have written what Bubba wrote, almost verbatim. I too see red flags of warning when somebody wears their religion on their sleeve.

I too have been screwed over more by religious people than by all others combined. It is to the point where I will not do business with anyone where there is even a whiff religion in the air with potential business partners.

Another atheist view is that the hereafter is purely an invention of man, and that the life we have is the only one we will ever have. I happen to believe that too, but I acknowledge that many gain comfort from a hard existence by the hope of a hereafter.

The most inflamatory thing that I have said and generally avoid saying because it upsets people is that religion is an expensive hobby.

[blind ear]

When I die there won't be a hell or heaven, I just will no longer be. It's not the thought of dieing, it's the thought of being dead. eddiegjr

[bubba]

maybe being agnostic or athiest is a religion of its own.  I have a good friend who is a minister.  we talk religious points a lot. I usually point out the hypocricy.  One of my examples has been as we all know ministers are called in to do a a funeral service for a person not from their church like say me.  I always ask him how he can stand in front of the family and say this man is with god in heaven, if by his own teachingsand beliefs, has not done what he needed to.  I tell him what better chance to preach. Point to the guest of honor and say this man is in hell.  Unless you want to join him, repent now.  He tells me that is not what the people are there to hear.  It just reinforces my ideas about organized religion.  He tells me he will say the same thing at my funeral. I told him I am being cremated with no calling hours and my ashes spread in the woods by a chosen couple friends.  After there will be a bob-be-cue(my name is Bob)  where friends and family can come have a beer and talk about how I effected their lives either negative or positive.  Just my way I guess.

[notnowjohn]

TeamNelson, Ethics and morality come up more often in the atheist community than anywhere else I frequent. Given the responses to my earlier sincere posts on this forum, I will not share my personal principles or ethics here. However these links might help your "students".


http://www.3quarksdaily.com/3quarksdaily/2010/12/the-great-debate-panel-can-scientists-determine-what-is-in-fact-right-and-wrong.html

http://skepticwiki.org/index.php/%22Atheism_Provides_No_Basis_for_Ethics%22

http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/schnall10/schnall10_index.html

imho
Best Books:
The Demon-Haunted World by Carl Sagan
The End of Faith by Sam Harris

Best Podcasts:
The Skeptics Guide to the Universe
The Atheist Experience
For Good Reason
Skepticality

A peace be upon the Earth and goodwill to all Humankind.
Please understand my reticence, perhaps the organ grinder be asleep and the monkey has escaped.
DA

[blind ear]

If you have ethics and you are accountable to yourself you don't want to have to keep asking yourself for forgiveness, you don't commit the wrong acts because you don't wish to judge yourself in need of repentance and forgiveness, a bad feeling. You siimpley don't do the act because of the personal moral consequences you will suffer. You act as a spiritual adult. ear

[slim rem 7]

 christ had a good bit to say about the ultra religious ,who put on a show of reverence an such ,mostly in public.. these were the pharisees of his time on earth.. he had nothing but disdain for them..they do it in public for image sake..in other words they desired approval an praise from man..that was the situation in his day..no doubt it still exist..
 this christen ,just tries to be an example to those i come in contact with..thats mostly just trying to be a plus in the lives of those i meet..if i feel my testimony might help a person ,i tellum about christ an his gift to us all..
but it can t be forced on anyone..if its not taken as i intended it ..still lovem .
 but i hope im strong enough through his grace to never deny the redeemer..