Author Topic: Child dies after parents refuse to seek medical help.  (Read 2038 times)

0 Members and 9 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Buckhammer74

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 170
  • Gender: Male
Re: Child dies after parents refuse to seek medical help.
« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2010, 12:19:43 PM »
Proove it PM.

What would you be saying if they were Muslim?

Offline williamlayton

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15415
Re: Child dies after parents refuse to seek medical help.
« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2010, 12:25:16 PM »
BH
That is a pointless arguement---they are not Muslim.
Is the law of Grace and Mercy extended to unbelievers? Christ Jesus says no.
Does that make God unmerciful?
No! It makes Him God.
We force mercy upon God that He did not/does not offer.
How do you know what God has in plan for this particular episode.
God allowed David to Kill his lovers husband---and turned it to good for God's purpose.
God uses the mighty---puts them in place---for His purpose.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Buckhammer74

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 170
  • Gender: Male
Re: Child dies after parents refuse to seek medical help.
« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2010, 12:33:46 PM »
William,

This may be a pointless arguement to you, but there is a dead child because of the faith of an innocent childs parents in your "god".

Offline Buckhammer74

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 170
  • Gender: Male
Re: Child dies after parents refuse to seek medical help.
« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2010, 12:38:41 PM »
By the way "god" does not allow anything. These parents are responsible for their childs death and need to be held accountable.

Offline williamlayton

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15415
Re: Child dies after parents refuse to seek medical help.
« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2010, 01:23:31 PM »
Buckhammer
There are countless thousands of children who die each day in this world---and God see's it all.
Why do you think this is?
Yes--they should have availed the child medical care. Are they guilty of even manslaughter for letting this happen---Again---I am willing to let God be God and lay this matter at His feet---I am in no position to know God's will in this matter.
Did they follow their conscience ? I assume that they did and the boy died.
Will God say that man can make the choice of punishment and I will abide by it?
Man---in this instance, can only seek revenge.
Is it revenge that God wants? Imano, but I do know that man doesn't either. Will anything bring this child back?
Am I a proponent of abolishing the death penalty? No!
I have very mixed feelings and I do not like to act on feelings---they betray me to often.
In this case I need to know and I don't.
I understand the feelings mustered here---I don't trust these feelings in this instance.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline williamlayton

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15415
Re: Child dies after parents refuse to seek medical help.
« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2010, 01:27:07 PM »
Let us look at this different.
Do you think the parents cared/wanted their child to die?
Seems like they wanted him healed.
Some would say that going for alternative medicine/care/treatment is the right of a parent for their Child.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Buckhammer74

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 170
  • Gender: Male
Re: Child dies after parents refuse to seek medical help.
« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2010, 01:32:49 PM »
William,

Stop putting "God" into this. That is the reason the child is dead.


Offline David D.

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 680
  • Gender: Male
Re: Child dies after parents refuse to seek medical help.
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2010, 03:16:56 PM »
William,

Stop putting "God" into this. That is the reason the child is dead.



God is in everything weather you believe it or not! He is your God also even if you don't except it. God gives us the choice!
Dave D.

Offline powderman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32823
  • Gender: Male
Re: Child dies after parents refuse to seek medical help.
« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2010, 03:45:00 PM »
DAVID D. True. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline williamlayton

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15415
Re: Child dies after parents refuse to seek medical help.
« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2010, 06:11:23 PM »
BH
God is also the reason the child was created.
What I read some of you to be saying is that there is a need to kill this man for following his faith.
This is a far cry from a deliberate act of murder.
Did God know what was to occur? I think yes.
How will God judge-------IMANO, without a clue,--Grace is amazing though.
I know this from personal testimony.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline scootrd

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2745
Re: Child dies after parents refuse to seek medical help.
« Reply #40 on: December 11, 2010, 07:28:55 PM »
The article is dated 2009

"if your old flathead doesn't leak you are out of oil"
"I have strong feelings about gun control. If there is a gun around I want to be controlling it." - Clint Eastwood
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjaman Franklin
"It's better to be hated for who you are , then loved for who your not." - Van Zant

Offline williamlayton

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15415
Re: Child dies after parents refuse to seek medical help.
« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2010, 10:14:46 PM »
10/8/09. ??
It is still revelant.
And, a good discussion.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Buckhammer74

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 170
  • Gender: Male
Re: Child dies after parents refuse to seek medical help.
« Reply #42 on: December 11, 2010, 11:24:23 PM »
What is completely relevent to this discussion and what you and Powderman have failed to answer

WHAT IF THE FAMILY WAS MUSLIM?

Please stop dancing around the question with your god/ scripture/bible talk and just answer it.


Bottom line is that boy deserved to live. He was deprived of his life by nut case parents, who in the very least should be put away for manslaughter. Besides, if these parents get off with nothing, you open the flood gates for all kinds of insane excuses for more heinus crimes. Like this monster down the road from me who kidnapped and most likely murdered his 3 boys, then "tried" to hanghimself and say he was nuts. Hes probably going for an insanity plea. He could just say god made him do it and in your eyes it would be up to god alone to judge him?

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Child dies after parents refuse to seek medical help.
« Reply #43 on: December 11, 2010, 11:42:29 PM »
An extreme case of how the church controls people some even to the point of sacrificing their children.  Sounds pagan to me.

"And I heard another voice from heaven saying, 'Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities'" (Revelation 18:4,5).
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline digs68

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 107
Re: Child dies after parents refuse to seek medical help.
« Reply #44 on: December 11, 2010, 11:46:24 PM »
My Dad was the most religious and faithful person I've ever personally known. He became this way after having open heart surgery in his early 40's. He died on the table briefly. In that moment, he had an afterlife experience. He came to a very large wood door. It was beautiful, but it was closed. At that very moment when he looked up and saw it was closed, he knew it was not his time and was revived by the doctors.
He spent the rest of his life trying to live up to the second chance God gave him. He taught catechumens (sp?), confirmation classes, marriage classes through the church, etc.
All of this time he was often in the care of doctors. He had other heart procedures, a pacemaker, prostrate and other surgeries.
He died in September in his sleep. He was 77 years old. He taught his religion classes like normal that night, then went into the church to pray. The priest met him coming out (as he told my Mom later.) and asked if everything was alright. He said my Dad often went to the church to pray when he was troubled. My Dad just told him he had some things to set straight. The next day he was dead. I believe he knew.
A week or so later, I had a dream. My Dad came to me where I lay in my bed. He looked younger-my age (early 40's). I was surprised to see him. He leaned down and talked very softly into my ear. I couldn't discern anything he said, but at that moment, I felt total peace wash over me like I've never felt before. He leaned down, kissed me on the cheek, then was gone.
I believe he came to visit me that night & it wasn't just a dream. I also believe he earned his place with God. As my brother said, "The door was open this time.".
The bottom line of all of this is that my Dad realized that doctors and medicine were part of God's plan. Their knowledge and skills granted to them by God kept him alive for nearly twice as long as he would have been without them.
He would not have been able to fulfill the things he did without their (and God's) help and healing.
The couple were wrong not to let doctors treat their child. I do not believe they should be punished. Their suffering the loss of a child is punishment enough.
For those of you who do not believe, that is your right. As for me, there is no doubt He is real.

Offline digs68

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 107
Re: Child dies after parents refuse to seek medical help.
« Reply #45 on: December 11, 2010, 11:56:14 PM »
As for the "Muslim" question, it is irrelevant. I'm not sure why you keep asking it. Muslims believe what they believe. God will judge them the same as he would anyone else, and none of us can say what that judgement would be.
Your question is meant to bait. To see if any of us are two faced or hypocritical. I suppose everyone is a little.
You want us to say, "Well, that's different!" "Since they're Muslim, then they are crazy!"
I'm not so sure they weren't crazy in the first place, no matter their religious preference.
So your answer is it doesn't make a difference.

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Child dies after parents refuse to seek medical help.
« Reply #46 on: December 11, 2010, 11:58:19 PM »
A final comment before this thread gets locked.  We cannot earn our place with God.  That isn't Biblical.  It's a gift and no payment is required.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline digs68

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 107
Re: Child dies after parents refuse to seek medical help.
« Reply #47 on: December 12, 2010, 12:10:05 AM »
Maybe not, but you sure can earn your place the other direction.
you totally missed the whole point of my post. Totally.
My point is that his eyes were opened, and he dedicated his life to teaching others God's word. "Earned" is just a figure of speech.

Offline williamlayton

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15415
Re: Child dies after parents refuse to seek medical help.
« Reply #48 on: December 12, 2010, 01:18:39 AM »
I am certain that his faith saved him and that he will be given crowns for his works.

BH
Since you don't believe in God, why do you keep giving Him place.
God is soverign over everything He created and all will acknowledge this one day.
Christ Jesus is purely this one God.
We all make mistakes--sin---and it is the payment Christ made at the Cross which allows us to have fellowship with Him.
That is the reason the Muslim question is not relevant.
They will deny Him.
These folks, the parents, are surely misled. They have made a terrible mistake in our eyes--on this I agree with you. Then again, I DO NOT KNOW the mind of God on this.
I do believe that the child is with God.
I will ask a theological question that does beg an answer.
You said he deserved to live. What thinking do you base that on?
I hope you do not take this as a bait---I would really like to know your mind on this matter.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Buckhammer74

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 170
  • Gender: Male
Re: Child dies after parents refuse to seek medical help.
« Reply #49 on: December 12, 2010, 02:02:39 AM »
Nevermind my question. It is clear that you are so blinded by your faith that you do not see reality. You make excuses for these people and feel sorry for them. I see them as lunatics. It does not matter if they dance around a fire beating drums, or go to church every sunday.

William,

Im not getting into the "How can you be the judge of man, you are not god" crap.

The boy was two years old and had his life taken from him. Whether it was intentional or not, the parents are liable in my eyes.

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Child dies after parents refuse to seek medical help.
« Reply #50 on: December 12, 2010, 02:38:27 AM »
I agree, religion is religion.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline williamlayton

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15415
Re: Child dies after parents refuse to seek medical help.
« Reply #51 on: December 12, 2010, 03:05:09 AM »
Reality of the world REQUIRES reasoning, I agree.
God is beyond reason and is not obedient to worldly reasoning.
My point/question is how you come to the conclusion that this boy deserves.
Looking at myownself, I come to the conclusion that I deserve nothing---well, except for hell.
That is me judgeing me---knowing me---knowing myownself.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline powderman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32823
  • Gender: Male
Re: Child dies after parents refuse to seek medical help.
« Reply #52 on: December 12, 2010, 03:18:20 AM »
BUCKH. We had a very good discussion between the believers and non believers titled aetheist billboard, it's on the 3rd page back, read it.
The subject at hand matters not what faith or lack of faith those folks have. They have lost a son, I believe they were  wrong for refusing help, but would hate to see them go to prison for doing what they thought was right. God will deal with them and I hope and pray they have had their eyes opened. God does indeed use drs to do his work. You are entitled to your opinion but all I see is you trying to stir the pot, my patience is wearing thin with your obvious attemp to start something.
DIGS 68. Good posts. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline Seabee hunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Gender: Male
  • "All gave some, but some gave all for you"
Re: Child dies after parents refuse to seek medical help.
« Reply #53 on: December 12, 2010, 03:56:06 AM »
Question William

What would be said here if these parents were Muslim, or Wiccan, or Buddist?

That there stupid...its universal and has no ethnic or religeous bias. Stupid is stupid all over the world.

Offline Seabee hunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Gender: Male
  • "All gave some, but some gave all for you"
Re: Child dies after parents refuse to seek medical help.
« Reply #54 on: December 12, 2010, 04:02:36 AM »
BH
That is a pointless arguement---they are not Muslim.
Is the law of Grace and Mercy extended to unbelievers? Christ Jesus says no.
Does that make God unmerciful?
No! It makes Him God.
We force mercy upon God that He did not/does not offer.
How do you know what God has in plan for this particular episode.
God allowed David to Kill his lovers husband---and turned it to good for God's purpose.
God uses the mighty---puts them in place---for His purpose.
Blessings


Unfortunately everything happens for a reason. Its not up to us to decide whether its fair. The punishment for not making the right decision is having to live with it for the rest of thier life. Thats quite the burden.



 



Offline Seabee hunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Gender: Male
  • "All gave some, but some gave all for you"
Re: Child dies after parents refuse to seek medical help.
« Reply #55 on: December 12, 2010, 04:15:04 AM »
BH
That is a pointless arguement---they are not Muslim.
Is the law of Grace and Mercy extended to unbelievers? Christ Jesus says no.
Does that make God unmerciful?
No! It makes Him God.
We force mercy upon God that He did not/does not offer.
How do you know what God has in plan for this particular episode.
God allowed David to Kill his lovers husband---and turned it to good for God's purpose.
God uses the mighty---puts them in place---for His purpose.
Blessings


Unfortunately everything happens for a reason. Its not up to us to decide whether its fair. The punishment for not making the right decision is having to live with it for the rest of thier life. Thats quite the burden.


I just spent a yearin Afghanistan and saw dozens of Afghan parents refuse medical attention for thier children who were injured by mines, IED's and beatings from taliban. Alot of them died. It happens and all we can do is offer to help. Whether they accept is is not my call. I hated it and was furious when a child died because I have children and would give my life willingly for them. Hate breeds Hate so I let my higher power make the call. Its not fair. It just is what it is.
 




Offline David D.

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 680
  • Gender: Male
Re: Child dies after parents refuse to seek medical help.
« Reply #56 on: December 12, 2010, 05:37:04 AM »
I have been a member of different forums for several years and I have learned there are two types frequent forums.

1-Those like me who want to share their knowledge, (which mine is limited) and learn from others knowledge. Theirs nothing wrong with disagreement if done respectfully.

2-Those who want, or feel the need for controversy, out to pick a fight, for what reason I do not know! 
Dave D.

Offline BBF

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10042
  • Gender: Male
  • I feel much better now knowing it will get worse.
Re: Child dies after parents refuse to seek medical help.
« Reply #57 on: December 12, 2010, 06:53:28 AM »


Scatterbrain
Are you speaking for God---if so you have need to say sayeth the Lord amd abide by his judgement on you.
You are judgeing by your standard---and telling God what the standard should be....................



Absolutly not as far as speaking for anyone else but myself, common sense on one part and then there is the Child Protective Service in about every State that would act/interfere for lesser things then a life endangering situation.
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Offline BBF

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10042
  • Gender: Male
  • I feel much better now knowing it will get worse.
Re: Child dies after parents refuse to seek medical help.
« Reply #58 on: December 12, 2010, 06:56:08 AM »
William,

This may be a pointless arguement to you, but there is a dead child because of the faith of an innocent childs parents in your "god".

 I'll second that !! >:(
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Offline Cabin4

  • Avery H. Wallace
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4938
  • Gender: Male
  • Out West
Re: Child dies after parents refuse to seek medical help.
« Reply #59 on: December 12, 2010, 06:57:58 AM »
I have been a member of different forums for several years and I have learned there are two types frequent forums.

1-Those like me who want to share their knowledge, (which mine is limited) and learn from others knowledge. Theirs nothing wrong with disagreement if done respectfully.

2-Those who want, or feel the need for controversy, out to pick a fight, for what reason I do not know! 

I would add a 3rd & 4th:
3- Those who want to proselytize
4- Those who want to change or bend public opinion on a particular issue or issues
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
S.A.S.S/NRA Life Member/2nd Amendment Foundation
CCRKBA/Gun Owners of America
California Rifle & Pistol Association
Ron Paul Was Right!
Long Live the King! #3