Author Topic: Should I remove the transfer bar in my Blackhawk? (Read 3229 times)

FAsmus · « **on:** December 12, 2003, 11:42:57 AM »

Asking for information:

I own a Ruger New Blackhawk in 45 Colt.

I have come to dislike the transfer bar in this pistol a good deal: It makes the trigger heavy and mushy. Even if I overhaul the trigger to be light and crisp the transfer bar then causes the pistol to mis-fire because it moves out of position before the hammer can fall far enough to hit it and fire the round.

I'd like to take the bar out of the pistol completely, toss it in the trash and build up the hammer with welding such that it would then hit the firing pin directly. This would then allow me to work on the sear and improve the trigger pull to something reasonable.

Has anyone else encountered this problem and thought of the same solution?

Good afternoon,
Forrest

litman252 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 12, 2003, 12:05:10 PM »

I Have little expierence with these other than the one I own. Most people appear to be able to get a trigger that they are happy with. Never have heard of or would recomend removing the transfer bar.
Best of luck,
Tony

KN · « **Reply #2 on:** December 12, 2003, 12:17:26 PM »

Altering the transfer bar system is not a good idea. One AD that injures some one (god forbid) and your goose is cooked. The lawyers would probably not bother going after Ruger, They would be going after YOU! Welding up the hammer would mean that the firing pin is resting on the primer until the hammer is cocked. Drop the gun or the hammer slips and off it goes. KN

BlkHawk73 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 12, 2003, 12:53:57 PM »

I'd say, NO! it's there for a reason. I've redone, or had redone, all the actions on my Ruger SA's (5). Trigger pulls range from 2 - 4 pounds and are all very crisp and positive. it can be done and quite easily. Ask this question over at www.rugerforum.com and youl'll get answers from some quite knowledgeable Ruger people.

myronman3 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 12, 2003, 03:17:01 PM »

like the others have said, no. my advice to you is that you send the gun to someone that can do an action job for you. i like do-it-yourself jobs; but sometimes a guy has got to know his limitations. rugers can be tricky so make sure your smith knows his bananas. mine charges me 35 bones per gun. be smart, and stay safe.

Double D · « **Reply #5 on:** December 12, 2003, 05:26:31 PM »

In 1972 My friend was taking a Ruger single action out of a filing cabinet drawer. The Ruger did not have a transfer bar. The gun was loaded with a round under the hammer. He bumped the hammer and the gun discharged. The round went through a door and struck my other friend under the right eye killing him instantly.

One friend went to prison and one friend's son grew up without a father.

The Transfer bar is a passive safety device, leave it alone!

daddywpb · « **Reply #6 on:** December 12, 2003, 11:47:32 PM »

In my opinion, removing any kind of built in safety mechanism for the sake of trigger pull is ridiculous. Have someone who knows what they're doing work on your trigger. Rugers can be slicked up real nice with the transfer bar still in place.

Hcliff · « **Reply #7 on:** December 13, 2003, 04:33:46 AM »

If you can't get the trigger pull you like then go to a different smith. Spend the cash and have it sent to Bowen, Clements, Linebaugh, or another one that backs up his work and is use to working on a Ruger. The action wasn't designed for that and having all that work done will most likely cost you as much as a good smith

Hcliff

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 13, 2003, 04:49:33 AM »

For $20 you can get a new set of springs that will make this pistol something you'll love to shoot. Easily obtainable 2.5-3 # trigger that's clean and crisp. I'm sorry that I don't have the website available, but if you'll do a search for Wolf Springs I'm sure you'll find the means to what your looking for with out doing something seriously foolish. the Ruger does not have a rebounding hammer, when the hammer is down, it's all the way against the frame, and if you welded it, it would have the full weight of the hammer spring against the firing pin. DO NOT do this!! Please!

FAsmus · « **Reply #9 on:** December 13, 2003, 05:03:42 AM »

Everyone says:

DO NOT do this!!

Very well, I'm convinced.

Good morning,
Forrest

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #10 on:** December 13, 2003, 06:48:20 AM »

Thank you. Sorry I can't spell, that's Wolff http://www.gunsprings.com/Revolver/1ndex_menu2NOF.html
this should take you to the springs for rugers. I have two sets installed. It is unbelieveable the difference. I think you'd like them. I think they will give you exactly what your looking for. HOWEVER!!! Keep your old springs!! If for any reason you need to send the gun back to ruger, put the old springs in, or they will take your Wolff springs and reinstall ruger originals.

FAsmus · « **Reply #11 on:** December 13, 2003, 07:08:21 AM »

Butler,

Thanks for the link.

I'll go right over there and order some springs. This revolver really does need some help.

I became so frustrated the other day, trying for trigger control, that I was willing to try anything to improve things.

I always keep gun parts, so long as they're not broken, for use later on: One never knows when such a need might come up.

For example, on this same Blackhawwk I have been trying Bisley grips for a couple years. Of late I have deceided that the standard western style as-issued grips are better for my use and I re-installed them.

If any board members look at this thread and want a Bisley grip frame + the Standard Ruger wooden panels post me back. Mine are unaltered in-the-white, not fitted to any revolver.

Good morning,
Forrest

BlkHawk73 · « **Reply #12 on:** December 13, 2003, 08:52:13 AM »

I may be interested in youe Bisley frame. How much and is it factory Ruger? just the gripfrme?

FAsmus · « **Reply #13 on:** December 13, 2003, 09:18:47 AM »

BlkHawk73;

The "Kit" is very similar to the one being offered by Brownell's. It includes the steel grip frame, in-the-white and requiring some exteriour fitting to match your gun. I never matched mine to my gun, so it will be "fittable" to another Blackhawk as it was originally intended. Brownell sells thier kits with the pins for the trigger spring and grip pannels included. Mine parts kit did not have these pins so I just used the ones I had from the standard western grip frame.

Brownell sells their kit, less grip pannels, for $151.00 and the wooden grip pannels for $25.

I will sell the parts I have for $120, you pay the shipping.

Good afternoon,
Forrest

FAsmus · « **Reply #14 on:** December 13, 2003, 09:20:51 AM »

BlkHawk73;

I forgot to mention that the kit also comes with the Bisley style hammer, of course!

Good afternoon,
Forrest

FAsmus · « **Reply #15 on:** December 13, 2003, 09:51:57 AM »

Butler,

I have gone over to the spring site.

Is there a specific spring kit over there you might recommend?

Good afternoon,
Forrest

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 13, 2003, 12:10:29 PM »

I don't remember which hammer spring I used, I do know it was the middle weight, 18#?

I'll have to do a little digging, or I may have to give my smith a call, (everyone should have a gunsmith for a shooting buddy!! :grin: ). I'll get back to you with that as soon as I can find out.

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #17 on:** December 13, 2003, 12:13:00 PM »

HAMMER SPRING PAK - Lightweight Power
This pak contains 1 each 17, 18 and 19 pound reduced power hammer springs for Ruger single action revolvers allowing optimum choice for lighter and smoother hammer actions which are essential for competition.
Stock No. 30395.....$ 9.00

I ended up using the 18# hammer and 30oz trigger

targetshootr · « **Reply #18 on:** December 13, 2003, 03:54:00 PM »

sometimes i call wolff and get springs directly from them. they have at least one that is not carried by brownells: a 15 lb hammer spring to fit old models. i like a light pull but i also use light loads so a rebounding hammer is not an issue.

you can also bend the trigger spring in order to lighten it. i use needle nose pliers and bend the hook upward on both sides until i have the feel i want. i bend it about half way from where the pin goes through the spring.

FAsmus · « **Reply #19 on:** December 14, 2003, 02:14:20 AM »

Butler,

B: HAMMER SPRING PAK - Lightweight Power..

F: Thanks very much for looking that up for me.

I feel priviledged to have received the assitance available on this site and I look forward to improvements in the Blackhawks controlability as a result.

Good morning,
Forrest

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #20 on:** December 14, 2003, 05:24:00 AM »

Forrest, don't forget to let us know what you think after you get them installed.

Big Hext Finnigan · « **Reply #21 on:** December 14, 2003, 07:24:04 AM »

Howdy,

You have gotten sound advice. Try the springs first, they work for most folks.

Building up the hammers is done with some regularity by serious compeitiors who use Rugers. A broken transfer bar at the wrong time can cost the match.

It does defeat a manufactured safety device. You might want to consider if you want to do that. Also, you will not be able to send the gun back to Ruger for repairs as they will return it to stock parts before returning it.

Good luck with your decision and do report back. Adios,

FAsmus · « **Reply #22 on:** December 15, 2003, 01:17:36 AM »

Gentelmen,

The parts are on order and confirmed by Wolff.

I'll keep this thread advised about the results when they arrive and aree installed.

Good morning,
Forrest

FAsmus · « **Reply #23 on:** December 21, 2003, 01:04:40 PM »

Butler;

B: Forrest, don't forget to let us know what you think after you get them installed.

F: Very well.

I ordered back then on the thread and yesterday I received the spring kit from Wolff Springs. I installed the 17 pound mainspring and 30 ounce trigger spring for my first trial today at the indoor range.

I found that cocking the hammer was smoother and easier right away. The trigger pull was lighter during initial dryfiring tests at home and at the range performance was much improved: Over-all control of the firing sequence was better in both slow fire and what I shall term "Cowboy Speed", or about as quickly as I can fire one-handed offhand with accuracy.

Hammer fall was positive, impacting the primers such that there is no question of miss-firing.

I like the addition of the spring kit very much. It is a fine "fix" for the heavy, creepy "Tranfer Bar" trigger and I thank the board for putting me onto it. Now, I have a light, creepy transfer bar trigger! Much better, really.

Good evening,
Forrest

California Lawdawg · « **Reply #24 on:** December 21, 2003, 07:19:48 PM »

Also check at the gun shows. Sometimes someone will be selling springs fro rugers. Had mine done at a Sacramento CA. gun show and it works like a charm and the transfer bar is still there

Lawdawg

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #25 on:** December 22, 2003, 12:32:45 AM »

FA, I'm glad you got the springs, there was no doubt in my mind that you'd approve of them if you did. This is a single action pistol, and its gonna have that creepy trigger pull to some extent. There is one more thing you can do, 'scuse me, have done. I'd NEVER recomend anyone do this themselves, I recomend you have a competent gunsmith polish the mating surfaces of the sear and trigger, then, if you shoot yourself, it'll be your smith's fault, not mine!! :grin: This will smooth the already lightened trigger pull, and allow for a clean break. I really think this will complete the trigger job as well as can be without going to some pretty expensive component changes.

FAsmus · « **Reply #26 on:** December 22, 2003, 05:57:35 AM »

Butler,

B: There is one more thing you can do; I recomend polishing the mating surfaces of the sear and trigger..

F: That had come to my mind. Roger your disclaimer.

I thought that a fellow could decrease the sear engagement by adding a small shim of soft steel soft-soldered onto the hammer. Once in place the shim would be easily filed off, controlling sear engagement and allowing me to reduce creep to a minimum.

I have done this on other firearms with success. Do you think it would work on the Blackhawk?

Good morning,
Forrest

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #27 on:** December 22, 2003, 01:33:08 PM »

I would much prefer to see you try this alteration as opposed to what many have tried, ie filing the hammer to reduce the the amount of sear engagment surface, which I find to be a really bad idea. Your way the shim can be trimmed until it DOES work without the dangers of changing the geometry.

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #28 on:** December 22, 2003, 02:09:43 PM »

FA, I just did something I've never tried before, I used a dial caliper to measure my trigger travel, one was .019" and the other was .021", which to my fingers quates to increase pressure on the trigger till the hammer falls. I guess I'm just not experiencing the creep and travel you are, or I'm just so insensitive, that I'm not noticing it.

FAsmus · « **Reply #29 on:** December 22, 2003, 02:11:31 PM »

Butler,

B: I would much prefer to see you try this alteration as opposed to what many have tried, ie filing the hammer to reduce the the amount of sear engagment surface, which I find to be a really bad idea. Your way the shim can be trimmed until it DOES work without the dangers of changing the geometry.

F: I'll keep you adivsed.

Good evening,
Forrest