Author Topic: your groupings@ 30+ yards  (Read 1091 times)

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Offline b23ball23

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your groupings@ 30+ yards
« on: December 12, 2003, 11:57:57 AM »
list your gun, scope,,overal price, and groupings at 30+ yards

this might help me more on deciding on what setup to get

also it will be fun seeing the guns compared
god bless
ben :D
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Offline Dand

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« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2003, 09:09:47 AM »
I haven't done much work at 30 + yards but here is results of my first accuracy session at a measured 99 feet.

Beeman R7 Beeman Williams peep, front post, Crosman Lights .177 1.5 inches overall.  A good shooter with a good scope and calm day could do much better.

BSA SuperSport .22,  Beeman Ss1 2.5X, Benjamin/Sheridan domes about 2.5 inch groups - I'm just learning how to shoot this gun - I've found I was using too solid rest bags.  Going to very soft rest bags and a lighter hold have reduced my 28 foot groups from erratic 1 inch to about 3/8 inches.

Truly experienced air gunners can make some incredibly small groups at 30+ yards - usually with higher power scopes and high quality rifles. Like under .5 inches at 50 + yards.  Some of the precharged rifles may be easier to shoot than a springer but quite spendy.
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Offline Lawdog

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your groupings@ 30+ yards
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2003, 12:17:52 PM »
My daughter's Winchester 1000X will put five shots into a group you can cover with a dime at 40 yards(what she has it sighted in for).  Not bad for an under $100.00 air rifle.  My Crow Magnum IV and my Rapid 12/250 will shoot well under an inch at the same ranges.  All of my air guns wear scopes made for air rifles.  The rifle have older 6-24X Burris scopes on them while my daughter has a 3-9X Burris scope on her Winchester.  Lawdog
Gary aka Lawdog is now deceased. He passed away on Jan. 12, 2006. RIP Lawdog. We miss you.

Offline Larry Gibson

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Re: your groupings@ 30+ yards
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2003, 02:10:40 PM »
b23ball23

"list your gun, scope,,overal price, and groupings at 30+ yards

this might help me more on deciding on what setup to get

also it will be fun seeing the guns compared"

Here is an article I did some time back.  I have a Leupold 6.5x20 EFR on the M54 now.  

.22 Cal RWS 54/Crosman Premiers – weighed/tested at 10 to 90 yards
By Larry M. Gibson

Television had little on that I found interesting several evenings ago. So I began another tedious and boring project, weighing pellets!  My method was as described in a previous posting, “.22 cal RWS M54/Chronograph Results and Pellet Weight Variation”, on 8/16/99 at 00:56:43.  In that article I described how the weight variation of Crosman Premier .22 cal pellets had a most decided effect on the chronographed extreme spread and standard deviation in feet per second of 10 shot strings.  I hypothesized that same weight pellets Vs “out of the box “ pellets would result in a measurable difference in group sizes at ranges of 30 to 70 yards.  Thus began my quest to weigh and test.

I weighed 230 CPs out of a box marked “Die #1” dated July 30 1996.  I also opened a new box of CPs marked “Die #1” dated Feb 25 1999 and weighed a sampling.  The pellet to pellet weight variation was similar between the two.  The chart breaks down by weight in grains (gr) the number of each weight and the percentage each weight was of the total.

Gr-------#-------%
14.0-----3-----01.3
14.05---27----11.8
14.1-----43----18.7
14.15---53----23.0
14.2----57-----24.8
14.25---25----10.8
14.3----18-----07.9
14.35----4-----01.1

Again I found 3.5 tenths of a grain weight variation or 2.5%.  To keep vZc happy I used a micrometer that measures to .0001” and measured a sampling of each weight at the head and skirt diameters.  Frankly, I found the diameter variations measured on different points of the pellet diameters to be greater than any variation of diameters between different weights.  Since I already own the barrel and have purchased the pellets, meaning I’m going to shoot them, the real meaningful measurement is going to be group sizes.  Sorry vZc!

The next night I was able to conduct the shooting portion of the test.  I have access to a building where I can shoot to 90 yards.  I used a 6 foot folding table for a bench rest with sandbags front and rear.  A cardboard box with a face 30x30” and 12” deep stuffed with old phone books was the pellet trap.  This made it handy because I used a Bushnel Pro-800 range finder to set the box at all ranges tested.  I use the range finder when hunting so it validates the holdover data for practical use.  I use a Magic Marker to make a + on the backside of regular target paper for aiming points.

I used my RWS M54 with a RWS 450 3x9 riflescope (set at 9x) to conduct the test.  All testing for group size of the weighed pellets was conducted at a range of 50 yards.  I fired a 5 shot test group with each weight of pellet except the 14 and 14.35 grain weights.  I only had 3 and 4 of each weight respectively.  Also a “control” group of 10 pellets “out of the box” was fired.    The chart lists the center to center group size for each weight pellet.



Weight         Group
 grains             Size

14.00---------.22”
14.05---------.53”
14.10---------.6”
14.15---------.76”
14.20---------.54”
14.25---------.66”
14.30---------.47”
14.35---------.56”

Average group size for the 8 groups:  0.5425”

The 10 shot control group measured 1.5” center to center.  Seven of the ten were in a 0.85” cluster.  There were three “flyers”, one high and two low that opened the group.  Obviously sorting the pellets by exact weight produced superior groups and accuracy.  The question was; what weights produced the 7 shot cluster in the control group and which were the flyers?”

Looking at the target it was easy to see the center of three test groups coincided with the center of the 7 shot cluster of the control group.  The weights of those groups are 14.10, 14.15 and 14.20 grains.  Those three weights composed 66.5% of the pellets.  Not surprising, the centers of the 14.00 and the 14.05 groups were high and the 14.25, 14.30 and 14.35 groups were low.  Over laying all 8 test groups (37 shots) using the aiming point as a reference produced a composite group of 1.65”.  

I then took the remaining 14.10, 14.15 and 14.20 grain pellets and mixed them up.  The rifle was then zeroed at 50 yards with the point of impact being 0.3” above point of aim.  The target box was then moved from 10 yards to 90 yards in 10 yard increments.  The riflescope was not adjusted other than the focus at each range. This gave me the exact trajectory of this pellet.  I prefer to use hold off for elevation and wind when hunting. The group sizes then give an indication of the vital area of a small game animal I can reasonably expect to hit from a solid rested position.   The chart lists the trajectory and the group (5 shot) at each range.

Range
Yards--------0---10---20----30----40----50-----60----70-----80-----90
Trajectory
Inches-___-2___0_+1.1_+1.6_+1.6__+.3__-1.9__-5.1__-10.2_-20.0

Group
Size________.15”_.20”__.35”_.45”__.56”_.78” _1.08”_0.85”_ 3.0”


On the 90 yard group I ran out of weighed pellets so I shot it with pellets out of the box.  The group was 1.3” wide with the expected vertical stringing being 3”.

This test has validated my original conclusion that weighing and sorting CPs is an erstwhile, though boring, endeavor.  This is especially the case if one is shooting targets or hunting at ranges further than 30 yards.  If just plinking “out of the box” will do nicely.  Excuse me while I go weigh pellets.  However, 1.5” ten shot groups will do for most hunting inside 50 yards.  Perhaps it’s “Miller time”.  Where did I leave that TV Guide anyway……..

Offline Johnny

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your groupings@ 30+ yards
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2003, 04:10:31 AM »
For long range precision shooting and hunting with airguns I use a FX SuperSwift .22 scoped with a Tasco Varmit Mk I 2,5-10x42AO.

This combo can make five shots within 1/8" (3mm) at 30 yard and within 1/2" (12 mm) at 50 yards.

Offline big6x6

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your groupings@ 30+ yards
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2003, 02:44:04 AM »
Air Arms TX-200 .177 with a Bushnell 4200 6-24(scope has been changed from photo.  You want the PRICE?  You'll have to guess that!  Let's say at least $800.  But it WILL shoot groups at that range with JSB Exacts that you can cover with a dime.
http://photos.imageevent.com/chill6x6/misciir739scopesmbs//websize/r-9tktx200hclam%20010.jpg

But, the same can be said for the HW-97..
http://photos.imageevent.com/chill6x6/oddsandends//websize/Lightningturrets%20032.jpg

The funny thing is, an R-7 will do the same thing in the hands of a competent shooter for around $400 rifle/scope.

BACIALLY the TX-200s, Pro Sports, and HW-97/77s underlevers are SLIGHTLY more accurate than the break barrels.
Deactivated as trouble maker. Letters to sponsors over inline forum problems.

Offline Johnny

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your groupings@ 30+ yards
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2003, 03:55:56 AM »
Yeah - the TX/PS/PE are very accurate but a PCP is easier to shot accurate with during field conditions.

I also have a Feinwerkabau Sport 177, that is also a very accurate springer, also very lightweight compared to the AAs.

Offline RHINOCAT

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your groupings@ 30+ yards
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2003, 04:06:03 AM »
:twisted: ALL YOU GOT TO DO IS JUST BUY A CHEAP DAISY GRIZZLY NO SCOPE 20YARD AWAY I COVERD IT WITH A QUARTER NOT BAD FOR NO SCOPE  :-D  :gun4:

Offline Johnny

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your groupings@ 30+ yards
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2003, 10:55:12 AM »
Actually my first airgun ever was a 840 Daisy BB-gun, given to me by my father in 1981.

 :grin:

Offline gilly

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your groupings@ 30+ yards
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2004, 02:56:55 PM »
today it wasn't windy at all and i finally got my crossman 664 gt zerod at 30 yards perfictly. i shot a coke can in half with it. the scope is ok not the best but works fine


crossman 664gt

beeman pointed pellets

cheap $5 scope that came with it

Offline ewoodie

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1.25 inch group size at 106 yards.
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2004, 09:11:47 AM »
106 yards 1,25 inch.

rifle Stealth /Talon.22

shot with JSB  / Air Arms field 5.52 mm pellets

Barrel Career 707

custom stock
custom muzzle weight
cutum scope mount, for old zeiss 6x 42

Offline Runs with Scissors

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your groupings@ 30+ yards
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2004, 06:02:28 AM »
My Sheridan Silver Streak (Mac 1 Steriod) and Williams peep sight will deliver consistant quarter-size groups at 35 yards.

My .22 Supersport produces the same sized groups at 20 yards, but it has its stock iron sights.

These rifles both produce about the same power and are excellent for squirrel hunting.
I once shot a mouse that made it into my kitchen somehow. It was a 15' easy shot, but the ricochet broke out the window :oops:
Guess I should have used the Sheridan.

Bill
Measure twice. Cut once.