Sabots for 12 ga.

[scl]

My son inherited his grandfathers Huntsman 12 ga. and I want to use for muzzleloader deer season.  It takes the #11 caps and came with some .690 round balls, but I would like to try sabots in it.  Is there any such critter that will work and does anyone have a favorite load?  I actually found the manual yesterday and cleaned the poor neglected critter up pretty good so I think he's g2g.  Gonna shoot today to make sure.  Any other suggestions please let me know.

Scott

[bikerbeans]

In general sabots need to be shot out of a rifled barrel.  IF the 12 ga. you have is a smoothbore then even if you can find one that will load it probably will not stabilize when fired.  Also, MZ shotgun bore diameters may  not work with a 12 sabot.  One thing you can try would be to load 12 ga foster style slugs as these tend to be a bit underbore size but bump up when shot.  About 15  years ago I shot Remington 1 oz foster slugs out of a 12 ga. BP double barrel I bought from Cabelas.  It had choke tubes that I had to remove before loading.  I used loose pyrodex RS powder, 90 grains by volume and I also used the wads and plastic gas check from the slugs.  I cut open loaded remington slugs to get the components, but I imagine thanks to the internet you could search and buy the components.  My 12 ga BP with fosters was about a 50 yard max. gun.  BTW, I tried round balls in this smoothbore 12 and I was lucky if I could hit a pie plate @ 25 yards.

Good luck hunting.

BB

[quickdtoo]

FWIW, along the same line of thinking, I used to have a .62 cal (20ga) smoothbore flintlock trade gun(no rear sight) that I shot at Blackpowder rendezvous, it shot a patched .610" round ball reasonably accurately out to 100yds or so, groups were 6-9" which is plenty good for deer. It was good enough for me to take many 1st place blanket prizes. One time at a club shoot trail walk I was shooting it for fun and one of our friends challenged me for best score even tho he was shooting a percussion Hawken rifle, just for fun of course, I made the deal that if I won since I was somewhat handicapped, he'd have to publicly announce later at the club meeting  that I'd beat him.....which I did by 1 point!  So don't discount the accuracy of a patched round ball in your 12ga, work on load, experiment with patch thickness, and powder charge, and it can be done. 

Tim

[scl]

Thanks for the reply guys.  I loaded up a couple of round balls with 75 grains of pyro (have since found out there is a difference in "grains"  and  "grains") and got a couple misfires.  Got new caps and powder and seems to have helped.  It seems to shoot minute of deer out to 50 yards and that's okay, as I haven't seen a dang deer in my last 2 weekends of hunting.  I'm gonna keep shooting balls until I get an inline 209 after the seasons.  Great forum!!

[bikerbeans]

Question.  75 grains by weight of loose pyrodex takes up how much space in a black powder measure?

BB

[Busta]

Question.  75 grains by weight of loose pyrodex takes up how much space in a black powder measure?

BB

Just trying to recall by memory, so don't hold me to this, but it should be between 100 gr and 105 gr by VOLUME. I have CRS, and haven't used Pyrodex other than testing by VOLUME in around 10 years. I do seem to recall that Hodgdon used to put something to the effect that a pound of Pyrodex went 30% further than a pound of Black Powder on the cap. So that should give you a ballpark figure that 100 gr by VOLUME, should be close to 70 gr by WEIGHT. If they weren't stretching the truth?

I usetacould 'member awl dis stuff!

[quickdtoo]

Here's the info on Hodgdon subs. 

Tim

http://www.hodgdon.com/loading.html

Pyrodex is lighter in weight than blackpowder and weighs only about 70% as much as blackpowder. However, because Pyrodex yields more energy per pound than does blackpowder, the same volume of Pyrodex gives similar performance to blackpowder. Pyrodex loads given in this manual for muzzleloading guns are measured by volume, not weight.

[bikerbeans]

75 grains by weight of pyrodex equals a stiff load in a 12 ga MZ with a round ball.

[PHATINJUN]

The factory list starting loads or light loads of 75gr FFG powder and a .715 pure or very soft lead ball. I have used .715 balls and 85gr of Shockeys FFG powder with a patch. I tried to get a consistant 4" group at 50yrds and could not get it. The best I ever got was with the above load and was able to keep them all on a 16"x16" board . Tried lots of differant patch and powder combo's till I gave up with the thought of using it for deer. Not saying it can't be done but I gave up before I found the magic load for a ball. But I got .45's and 58's that do that just fine and every one knows what the .50 will do. Kurt

[crazyhick]

I have the 12ga version of the huntsman as well and I shoot 69cal roundballs with a shotgun sabot. Groups are 3" at 60 yards with 90 grains of Pyrodex. Used to shoot with patches but the groups were too inconsistant for me. I just smear bore butter all over the sabot and it keeps the bore very clean and seals the gases better so you get all the "oomph" from the powder.

[PHATINJUN]

CrazyHick If I read you right you are probly using a shotgun cup with the ball sitting in the cup not not wrapped around the sides of the ball correct?? That could work pretty good as long as the wad and grease sealed the bore for ya. I have used a simalar set up in my 28ga with .54caliber balls. More of a Hybred than a true sabot. Kind of like the Buckhammers. Kurt

[crazyhick]

no i use the wad the regular way it is meant to be used. since it is a smoothbore, it has no ill effects on the way it shoots. the wad travels about 20yds or so with the round. It is a tight squeeze getting it in there (a good starter is a must) but the accuracy is well worth it.