Inside Spread Counties...

[Mohawk]

How many of ya'll agree with this tactic of maturing the deer herd? I would be hard pressed to see many bucks that would make this mark. We don't have it where I hunt, yet, but I have my doubts about it. I killed my largest buck near Sonora TX in '92 and he was bio'ed at 6 1/2 yrs old. He was a 10 point with a 12 " spread but heavy beamed and very tall.  I think the State is going in the wrong direction with this. Maybe a flat  antler point system would be a little better? And can you imagine the trouble in trying to prosecute it the way it is now?  Blatant I could see but if you mis-judged by 1/2 " and you were cited and the game warden was having a bad day? If I was a JP I would be embarrassed to hear a case like that. Granted if it was just PC for another offense but that's a different scenario. I just don't see the logic behind it.

[GeneRector]

  Howdy! Before the 13 inch rule you could just do a quick check to make sure the deer had antlers and then you could shoot or pass them up.  When I was a teenager, deer hunting was a serious thing to talk about and opening day was like a holiday. At that time most deer hunters for bucks just looked to make sure the deer had antlers, then they shot it. The peer pressure was to get a buck deer and the points did not matter too much. It is different now. Today you have to study the deer and make sure it fits the 13 inch spread rule before shooting. If there is any doubt as to the spread being 13 inches or more, you have to pass on it. Spikes are an exception and can be taken in place of the rule. Yes, you could see 8 and 10 pointers that do not fit the 13 inch rule. They must be passed up regardless of the number of points. Also, a buck deer that only has an antler on one side will never be a legal buck in Texas once it becomes a fork horn in those counties under the 13 inch rule. Always, Gene

[Mohawk]

That's the part that gets me. Spikes I can understand. But I see many mature bucks that don't have the minimal spread.

[HL]

IMO, I think it's a good thing. In areas where this has been in place, they are seeing more deer maturing and producing much larger antlers. I agree, there will be many mature bucks that may never make 13", but that's just one hickup in the theory and practice.  It will allow for all the immature 4,6 and 8 pointers to get a few more years before being harvested. Overall, I think it will prove to be beneficial.

[chutesnreloads]

I have to allow there's more bucks on our place now than there ever has been at least in my life.And of course there are more mature ones.But how long is thios going to go on.There's landowners who aren't leasing for hunting because folks don't want to pay to not see a "legal" deer.As for thinning the spikes...how about unlimited spikes and nothing else for a couple years.Seems to me that'd be most effective fix to that problem.The only spike i've ever seen on our place was one obviously gotten broke off in a fight or something.

[markc]

I have mixed feelings about the 13" rule.  I believe 13" was the pick because of the "average" distance between ear tips when the deer has his ears n the alert position.  Like Mohawk, I have seen bucks taken that were plenty mature by age, but failed to make 13", usually going between 11 1/2" and 12 1/2".   Possibly the area had a dominant genetic trait that caused them to max out less than 13".  13" seems arbitrary to me science-wise, but the easiest visual judgment-wise on a live deer.   

The idea of shooting a spike because he is a spike to rid the herd of spikes can run counter to the objective. Drought, injury, or youth can cause a deer to be a spike that in the years moving forward will produce forked antlers.  Other than spikes on the head, the hunter could/should look for other body features that can indicate youth, or maturity such as body shape, presence or lack of a "roman nose" appearance etc...

[chutesnreloads]

   

The idea of shooting a spike because he is a spike to rid the herd of spikes can run counter to the objective. Drought, injury, or youth can cause a deer to be a spike that in the years moving forward will produce forked antlers. [/quote]While I agree with this,there are places with very large very mature spikes.The largest deer I killed was a deer with 1 inch spikes.He was bigger than two 8-point and one 10-point killed the same morning.I've seen smaller spikes that have learned other even larger bucks won't fight them because the spike will gore them .He knows those spikes will go right through a nice spread of antlers.Yu have to see the spike getting to breed while the nice bucks don't and that spreads the gene pool of inferior deer.

[HL]

I do agree with most of the arguments for removing spikes, but if I knew how to post pictures, I would post one of a now mature buck, that was a spike 4-1/2 years ago and would practically eat out of your hand. It lives in my subdivision and comes up each evening when I put out corn for the deer (pets).

this buck is now a 9 pnt with very good mass and approximately 19-20" spread. Very intimidating to be that close to such a big buck.

Even though some spikes never do better than spiked antlers, there are some, just because of their age, that will be spikes at 1-1/2, but will mature into good bucks.

[Mohawk]

Mark pointed it out well. Other features of a mature deer are over looked by statute. The entire reg is based on inside width. I used to hunt these areas growning up, Freestone County and the vacinity. In my personal experience  it should read no buck deer allowed and no does without permit. I appreciate the effort but I think the direction is wrong. And the spike thing I have mixed feelings about. Spikes are not always spikes.

[sweetwyominghome]

While far from perfect, the 13-rule rule works -- and works well. You still need additional discipline, like letting young spikes walk. But if a deer is 2.5 or older and still a spike, it needs to go.

Where I live (south central TX) the rule has been in effect for 5 or 6 years, and the results speak for themselves. You could go seasons without seeing a buck. Now, you are seeing not only bucks but MATURE deer.

Prior to 2007, I had not shot a buck on the place since 1981 as all you'd see would be very young bucks -- if any bucks at all. But here are 2: one from 2008 and another from 2009. And keep in mind this is from a county that is NOT known for antler growth or body size. The other photo is from a game cam from this past October.

[elmer]

There are other alternatives. MLD properties are exempt from the 13" rule because they are already working with the biologist on a game management program based on age. We don't shoot 1.5 yo spikes because that is just too soon to tell, but we do shoot 2.5 yo spikes. They may get better later, but on average they won't be great.

I find it easier to estimate width because (as stated earlier) of the ears than age. I find it difficult to judge between 3.5 and 4.5. We don't see many 6.5 yo deer because we aren't high fence the neighbors aren't on a management plan. This is the first year this county was under the 13" rule so things may change on the neighboring properties. Before they were pretty much on the if it has antlers shoot it plan.

[streak]

Having hunted in Texas since the early 70`s, mainly in E.Texas. I have seen antler growth vary a great deal.
 Genetics and diet have a greater affect on the antler growth more than any thing else. i question the 13" rule as being the sole reason for more bucks and larger antler spreads. IMHO I think for good antler growth and good spreads that inferior bucks should be culled. Years ago I shot a 5
point in East Texas that I could set the complete set of antlers in the palm of one hand. This too me was definitely a inferior buck and was probably 3-4 years old at the time. He was chasing two does at the time.
Since we have started setting up feeders and food plots on our property the quality of deer has improved and the venison has really improved in taste!

Mineral blocks of the right composition also aid in good antler growth as some soils in Texas are lacking in the correct mineral makeup for good antler growth.