Author Topic: mill  (Read 1403 times)

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Offline rampa room artillery

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mill
« on: December 12, 2010, 09:05:54 AM »
ok,  i havent even unloaded the lathe and now i am on the hunt for a milling machine that will be for making tools for the lathe and making cannon sights. i have looked at a few at harbor fright and northern tool, wholesale tools.     what type of mills does everyone else have and what would you recommend?


  rick bryan
  3rd va co B N-SSA

Offline GGaskill

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Re: mill
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2010, 10:26:18 AM »
A Bridgeport Series One or clone (you won't use it enough for its cloneness to be a detriment.)  Should you resort to a less expensive machine like a mill/drill, get a square column one that will hold position while you make vertical moves.
GG
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Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: mill
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2010, 11:05:06 AM »
No, I don't have two milling machines....

But, I still recommend finding a machine shop sale - get mill and tooling at one price.  You have the advantage of being able to move it.

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Offline rampa room artillery

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Re: mill
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2010, 11:10:10 AM »
yea, i guess i have to find some auctions around my area.   

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: mill
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2010, 11:11:18 AM »
Advertize in the local 'shopper' papers.

Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline Rickk

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Re: mill
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2010, 11:43:26 AM »
keep an eye on "craigslist"

Offline dan610324

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Re: mill
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2010, 02:35:21 PM »
dont buy a new chinese machine
find a used quality mill instead
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline rampa room artillery

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Re: mill
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2010, 03:55:28 PM »
what are the signs to look for in a mill when its too far gone and worn out??   
 
 

Offline GGaskill

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Re: mill
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2010, 05:07:47 PM »
Look at the table surface for dings and holes and other damage.  You don't want much.  No broken out T-slots.  Little or no rust.  Firmly grasp the table and see if you can rotate it about a vertical axis (you are looking for wear on the dovetails.)  Apply the way clamps and see if the table moves with them tight (trying to rotate the table as above, not using the feed handles.)  There will be some play in the lead screws; what you really don't want is areas of wear that give you nonuniform motion according to the dials (dial says you moved .050" but you really only moved .045"), although if the machine has a good DRO, this is less important.  You can make motion tests with a 2" dial indicator but you may not be allowed to play that much.

Don't be in so much of a hurry to get a machine that you get the first thing you see even though you really down deep don't like it.  Wait until you find a good machine; eventually you will find a good machine at a good price but sometimes it is better to get a good machine at a not so good price but sooner.  Price should be second place unless you want to get into machine rebuilding.
GG
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Offline dan610324

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Re: mill
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2010, 08:01:10 PM »
if its not perfect on the sliding surfaces (is that what you call dovetails?) then you can remove all upstanding spots with a large sharpening stone .
just use it with a mix of 80% kerosene and 20% very thin oil

when you got a dent on a flat steel surface , the area around it will rise .
thats the thing you want to remove

all machines can be tightened up

with just a few hours work you can make a decent mill from what wasnt that nice when you bought it .

hope you understand what I mean , my english isnt good when it comes to technical stuff
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline Victor3

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Re: mill
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2010, 08:41:01 PM »
what are the signs to look for in a mill when its too far gone and worn out??   

 First off, I'm talking Bridgeport type mills here, which IMO is the type every home machinist should get if one can afford it and has the space. Many points I mention will also apply to other types of mills though.

 When I walk up to a Bridgeport to determine if it's had a hard life or not, I first look for table damage, then wear on the two flat surfaces (see pic of my mill below) on top of the knee casting where the saddle sits. These bearing surfaces will most often have a swirly/criss-cross pattern on them. The pattern will generally be clear and sharp at the front & back sections because the saddle doesn't travel all the way across frequently during use. In the center area is where you want to look for wear; by moving the saddle all the way to front & rear so you can examine these surfaces. If the swirly pattern is completely gone in the middle, the machine has seen significant use. You also want to check for deep scrapes on these surfaces, indicating that steel chips have been trapped under the saddle and have caused accelerated wear of the bearing surfaces. Also, if when cranking the handle to move the saddle in and out it's very tight at the front & rear but loose in the center, the machine has seen better days.



 Undue wear on these surfaces can also indicate that the machine's lube system, if so equipped, is not working properly. Every older Bridgeport I've torn down has had at least one oil tube, fitting or gallery plugged with gunk.

 You also want to inspect for wear on the quill. It should be bright and clean. Bring it all the way down and look for deep scrapes. While in the down position, grab the end and try to move it. It shouldn't move at all.

 Stick your finger up into the spindle and feel all around where the collet seats. It should be smooth on the tapered area near the end of the spindle nose. If not, a collet has spun at some time and galled the surface.

 You might check to see if the key for the collet is there, but most of them have been sheared off on older machines. That's not really a problem; the machine can work fine without it. It's easy to replace with a $5 part if you want to do so.

 Raise the knee as high as it will go (make sure the knee clamp is free). Then, as fast as you can crank, lower it to the bottom of its travel. It should go down smoothly with no 'fits & starts.' If while cranking it you suddenly feel less resistance and it 'clunks' down, that's not good. Also, squealing while lowering the knee indicates that the screw/nut has not been lubricated properly, maybe for a very long time.

 Also, I'd never buy a mill that wasn't hooked up to power so I could test function of all features that require it. You want to make sure that the motor runs fwd & rev both in high & low range, quill feed operates in all positions, brake stops the spindle, etc. Listen for funny noises from the head, especially in low range. Make sure that the DRO and power feed work.

 If the machine has obviously been painted very recently, or the seller doesn't freely allow you to take your time inspecting it, look elsewhere (Think 'used car salesman' here).
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

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Offline grymster

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Re: mill
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2010, 06:27:11 AM »
One of these!  :)



Seriously, I've run a lot of milling machines and one of my favorite turret knee mills would be a Tree. I ran a few for various companies and owned one for about ten years. Better than a Bridgeport, IMO.
grym

Offline Victor3

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Re: mill
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2010, 02:44:09 AM »
 I arranged for the purchase of two Tree 2UVRC mills for a company I used to work for and they were great mills. Sturdy box ways and built-in geared X & Y power feed. Neat quick-change tool design with no drawbar. Collets are expensive though, and solid-shank tooling for them is a lot less common than R-8.

 One thing I never liked about running them was the fact that you couldn't see where the quill stop was set (it's internal) like you can on a Bridgeport.
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

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Offline guardsgunner

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Re: mill
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2010, 04:27:22 AM »
As long as they are tight, there is nothing with some of the Bridgeport knockoffs un-less you are planning to make a living off of it. For hobby work they a just fine.Just keep up on the maint. Alot of small shops use them. I recently bought a 9 x 42 with a Kurt vice, x p-feed and collets for $300. It had seen little use.The place next door had a smaller one with feed and dro for $600 and it had new ball screws.

Offline rampa room artillery

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Re: mill
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2010, 05:50:33 AM »
I wish i could find one that cheap,  everyone i have seen was 2000 dollars

rick bryan

Offline Double D

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Re: mill
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2010, 05:57:33 AM »
I wish i could find one that cheap,  everyone i have seen was 2000 dollars

rick bryan

That is cheap!

Offline guardsgunner

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Re: mill
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2010, 07:25:37 AM »
Detriot was once a manufacturing town, but now it is largly un-employed.

Offline dan610324

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Re: mill
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2010, 07:51:06 AM »
2000 is cheap for a quality mill
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: mill
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2010, 02:35:09 PM »
....The place next door had a smaller one with feed and dro for $600 and it had new ball screws.


OMG!   
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: mill
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2010, 02:38:17 PM »
2000 is cheap for a quality mill


Agree.

Which makes me feel great about paying 1200 for a Kent USA variable speed 4hp with x axis power feed.  WISH it had a dro!
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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N 37.05224  W 80.78133 (front door +/- 15 feet)

Offline dan610324

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Re: mill
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2010, 07:51:09 AM »
I guess it wouldnt be any problem for you to at least doubble that price if you would sell it .

whats :  dro ??
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: mill
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2010, 08:03:26 AM »
DRO:  Digital Read Out.   It shows the exact position of the table (X and or Y) and the quil (Z).

Usually has a glass scale and sensor that hooks up to the indicator. 

You don't have to worry about taking up slack (due to ball-screw wear) when changing directions of movement.
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
Cat Whisperer
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Offline dan610324

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Re: mill
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2010, 12:00:04 PM »
yeah I know , got it on my lathe
but unfortunately not on the mill
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry