Author Topic: Bear guns ? (Read 11011 times)

gs50401 · « **Reply #60 on:** July 27, 2011, 02:41:23 PM »

TeamNelson, I agree with you that every survival gun thread ends up being about what handgun is needed for bears.

We have no bears where I live. Feral dogs and two legged vermin are the threats.

gr8ful · « **Reply #61 on:** July 27, 2011, 07:52:43 PM »

the Native Americans were surviving just fine with Bows and arrows before the white man came along. 50 ft of aircraft cable and a few crimps will hunt for you 24/7 and put lots of grub on the spit without firing a shot. I feel confident that if TSHTF whatever I'm toting for twolegged predators will handle a bear also. BTW it will probably be a 7.62X51mm or a 5.56 x45mm with a lot of FMJ bullets. Been thinking of getting a mideval mace for the zombies, just because the look so darned COOL.

Lost Farmboy · « **Reply #62 on:** February 05, 2012, 03:32:13 PM »

A buddy of mine demonstrating how to use his Braveheart bear gun.

Rex in OTZ · « **Reply #63 on:** February 06, 2012, 09:56:08 AM »

Bear Guns are like Four Wheel Drive.
A little common sense goes a Loooong way in avoiding a sticky situation!

Rex in OTZ · « **Reply #64 on:** February 06, 2012, 10:03:25 AM »

If anything I'd suggest instead of just a hand gun, carrying Bear Spray.

Bear Spray is a great for breaking a charge or attack, its not a repellant though, I'd seen video footage of a bear watching party in Kaktovik AK (bears feasting on wale carcass) show a young male polar bear getting spray'd in the face when it was too interested in one the vehicle the driver's, what the vid also shown was after the bear backed off and was having a time of it with bear spray in his eyes and nose, the smell of the spray attracted two other bears off the wale carcass and they come over to the spray'd bear they started licking him like a Lolly pop and nuzzling him (kinda like when dogs roll in road kill skunk) what the Bear Spray marketing Wont tell you, Discharged Bear Spray Is a Bear Attractant!

Counter Assault Bear Deterrent Pepper Spray, The Original "Grizzly Tough" Pepper Spray!
Bear Attack News

Remember to keep a clean camp
Pay attention to your surroundings
Wind and river noise can mask your presence till its too late
Bears will dig up your cat holes to eat your droppings!
The Outhouse and Porta Pottie tent should should be located well away out in a wide open clearing as furthest away from Vegitation/cover that Bears can hide in the better.
Food preparation and food storage shouldnt be anywhere near your sleeping/rest areas, as far away as your toilet area 100,feet+

mannyrock · « **Reply #65 on:** February 08, 2012, 04:36:16 AM »

What kind of gun do you need to kill this thread?

Team Nelson, its time to put it out of its misery!

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #66 on:** February 08, 2012, 05:06:11 AM »

The whole idea was we don't need bear guns but guns for small game and protection. The idea is avoid bad people and bears to stay alive.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #67 on:** February 08, 2012, 05:07:36 AM »

By the way stick it with a pin and all the hot air will escape and it will be dead !

mannyrock · « **Reply #68 on:** February 08, 2012, 06:04:37 AM »

Oops. My apologies to Team Nelson. I should have directed my "kill it" plea to you Shoot All.

And, you are right. The premise of your original post was flipped upside down.

Best, Mannyrock

reliquary · « **Reply #69 on:** February 08, 2012, 11:13:32 AM »

I fully agree with the idea that every thread seems to get back to bear guns. There aren't that many of them in East Texas anymore; one was tranquilized and removed by the Fish and Wildlife folks around Shreveport, La, within the last couple of years, but it had wandered up from waaay further south.

The last one that was killed in this area was in the '60s by an elderly widow-lady...shot at close range with a 16-gauge single H&R; #1 buck. It was looting her back-porch garbage can and she shot it from her back door. It went about 50 yards.

My most immediate threat is from feral pigs, transient illegals, and other opportunistic thieves. The equipment I have on hand is most adequate for them.

Bigeasy · « **Reply #70 on:** February 08, 2012, 11:55:14 AM »

OK, I'll play....

When it comes to handguns for self defense against big bear, just consider the number of documented incidences where powerful, large bore RIFLES have failed to stop a PO'd bear with solid body hits...

SO, figuring the only way to really stop a bear RIGHT NOW with a handgun is to sever the spine, or pierce the brain.....

I propose a Glock in 9mm loaded with FMJ bullets. Aim for the brain, and let er rip... Far easier to fire fast, accurate repeat shots compared to a large bore hand cannon, and if you hit the brain, same effect.... If you miss, well, still the same effect I would suppose.

Any Alaska based members want to try out my theory this spring?

Larry

reliquary · « **Reply #71 on:** February 08, 2012, 03:08:50 PM »

When I was stationed in AK, in the 70s, I was told by the wildlife folks and hunters that one should try for penetration on bears, rather than knockdown. I backpacked into some remote areas for recreational prospecting. With penetration in mind, I packed a Ruger BH with heavy cast loads, because a rifle was just too heavy for what else I was carrying. Never had to use it because I really tried to avoid tempting a bear into a confrontation.

I can remember three times that I had close encounters with them, in spite of being careful, and I told myself, "A rifle would be a good thing to have, here, now." Oh, well, you use what you bring. As I said a while back on this thread, if I were deliberately going after bear, I'd have the heaviest caliber rifle I could shoot well.

OTOH, the BLM folks, after losing some workers to bears, issued short-barreled 12-gauge pumps with slugs to their field workers. They practiced with them on the base ranges. Didn't sound like they were trying for penetration.

Does anyone still make those nasty, evil, armor-piercing, OMG-copkiller, cartridges that the Brady Bunch, et al, were crying about several years ago? Are they even legal any more? Would they be good for the penetration thing?

schuetzen · « **Reply #72 on:** February 08, 2012, 04:09:32 PM »

Bear defense training (or competition?), probably in Canada. It looks like they are practicing with British Enfields...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvMhrSWi_xY

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #73 on:** February 09, 2012, 01:07:50 AM »

your probably right and probably the best day to day gun is going to hands down be a .22lr. As to the rats youll probably hope they come around so you can get a bit of protien!!!!

Quote from: SHOOTALL on December 13, 2010, 09:04:11 AM

It always ends up talking bear guns when we talk a survival gun be it for a walk or SHTF time. In truth it would seem rats would be more of a problem. Maybe wild dogs and cats ? What will a real end of time one gun need really be ? If many are killed and rats left un checked .............
Any thoughts ?
What gun/guns would really be needed day to day ? Say you are on foot and moving .

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #74 on:** February 09, 2012, 01:12:48 AM »

as to bear guns your best to take advice from someone who has actually shot at least a black bear rather then a bunch of keyboard comandos that probably havent even shot a deer with a handgun. Luckily myself i have no intention of getting into a fight with a bear. When i shoot them they dont even know im there. Betcha the manufactures of handguns just love those storys of bear attacks! they probably sold more 500 smiths then all the adds combined.

SwampThing762 · « **Reply #75 on:** February 09, 2012, 03:14:21 PM »

I have not shot any bears, but have killed my share of poor man's grizzlies. My weapon of choice is the Remington rifle in 30-06. My first 30-06 was a Remington 700 bolty, but am now using my father's Remington 742 Woodsmaster semi-auto. I load it with a Hornady 220 grainer over a stiff shot of IMR4350. I go heavy because I have shot many 250-pound class pigs, and heard tell of bigger in our swamps. I also use a 15 gauge slugger for hogs, too.

My handgun of choice is a Glock 23 in 40 S W. I plan to get a Ciener kit for it soon for small game and varmints.

ST762

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #76 on:** February 10, 2012, 01:40:22 AM »

shooting pigs will give you a good idea what it takes to kill black bear. IF anything black bear might be just a bit easier to kill or at least tend to run a bit less after being hit.

Quote from: SwampThing762 on February 09, 2012, 03:14:21 PM

I have not shot any bears, but have killed my share of poor man's grizzlies. My weapon of choice is the Remington rifle in 30-06. My first 30-06 was a Remington 700 bolty, but am now using my father's Remington 742 Woodsmaster semi-auto. I load it with a Hornady 220 grainer over a stiff shot of IMR4350. I go heavy because I have shot many 250-pound class pigs, and heard tell of bigger in our swamps. I also use a 15 gauge slugger for hogs, too.

My handgun of choice is a Glock 23 in 40 S W. I plan to get a Ciener kit for it soon for small game and varmints.

ST762

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #77 on:** February 10, 2012, 01:44:54 AM »

Ciener , someone said went to jail . Anyone hear about it ?

reliquary · « **Reply #78 on:** February 10, 2012, 03:56:00 AM »

A news article said Ciener got arrested for fraud, something about customer service issues. Didn't pay much attention to it.

Hogs drop pretty readily here in East Texas to .44 Mag and .45 Colt pistol loads. A lot of the hogdoggers use them. The folks who just shoot hogs as varmints mostly use FMJ 7.62X39s. A few use FMJ in some AR or Mini-14 platform. They mostly don't care whether they kill them or just wound them and have them run off.

Meat-hunters use whatever they use for deer. Larger ones can be hard to kill. There was a picture in the local news rag that purported to show a 250-pounder killed by a youngster using a Handi .223.

I've shot a few with 160-grain Speer SP over heavy loads of 296 or 2400 (see Speer manual 9), in the 80s when I carried a Smith 19 for my walk-around-in-deep-woods gun. Since then, I carry the .45 BH with ~250 LSWC over a heavy load of Unique (see Speer 9 again), with which I've killed three.

I never weighed any of the one I killed, these were just chance encounters when I was artifact-hunting, but doubt that any were over 150 lbs and they went down before becoming a serious threat. I tend to err on the side of caution, especially when alone in the woods.

teamnelson · « **Reply #79 on:** February 10, 2012, 04:27:09 AM »

Manny, only a centerfire autoloading rifle of at least .45 wildcat caliber could kill this thread, with a drop magazine for quick followup shots, scope and BUIS, 3 rails, a forend grip, laser, flash hider and bayonet mount. I'd be suspect of any such arm that costs less than $2500, and hasn't been on the cover of Tactical Life. Ideally it would be a military or LEO variant so ammo would be plentiful in the apocalypse where these threads tend to reproduce at the cyclic rate.

Yeah, I know there'll be someone out there who'll say they've used a .22lr or even a bow to kill a thread like this. My guess is they were either very very lucky, or the thread was one of those southern pygmy threads. I had a buddy who got caught in the open with a thread like this, and it soaked up 5 Brennke slugs without batting an eye. I ask you, if you had to kill a thread like this, would you rather have a .22lr or a .458 SOCOM in your hands?

Quote from: mannyrock on February 08, 2012, 04:36:16 AM

What kind of gun do you need to kill this thread?

Team Nelson, its time to put it out of its misery!

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #80 on:** February 10, 2012, 07:28:00 AM »

guys do it like a real man sneak in and slide a boar blade between the ribs I mean lines

blind ear · « **Reply #81 on:** February 10, 2012, 08:13:12 AM »

So simple, stop opening the link and for you it will be shot in the head. ear

1jonmon · « **Reply #82 on:** February 10, 2012, 08:58:43 AM »

22 mag revolver with jacketed hollow points for survival. It's not a toy...all around capability. Not perfect in many situations but capable. Second choice would be 870. Second because way more difficult to carry it and ammo in many situations, but it truly is more versatile.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #83 on:** February 11, 2012, 01:33:25 AM »

Never did it that way. My buddy did one in tx like that and said it was a rush! Heck it would be enough of a rush from me crawling through that brush knowing theres snakes! Now God himself hasnt come up with a big enough gun to kill snakes!!!! I think id rather bar hand wrestle a black bear and a hog at the same time then be within 20 feet of a snake!

Quote from: SHOOTALL on February 10, 2012, 07:28:00 AM

guys do it like a real man sneak in and slide a boar blade between the ribs I mean lines

Bigeasy · « **Reply #84 on:** February 11, 2012, 04:29:43 AM »

Quote from: Lloyd Smale on February 11, 2012, 01:33:25 AM

Never did it that way. My buddy did one in tx like that and said it was a rush! Heck it would be enough of a rush from me crawling through that brush knowing theres snakes! Now God himself hasnt come up with a big enough gun to kill snakes!!!! I think id rather bar hand wrestle a black bear and a hog at the same time then be within 20 feet of a snake!
Quote from: SHOOTALL on February 10, 2012, 07:28:00 AM
guys do it like a real man sneak in and slide a boar blade between the ribs I mean lines

Lloyd-

You would have liked Beth, my Burmese Python (Named her after an old high school girlfriend) She was about as big around as a pencil when I got her. The wife thought she was pretty (the snake). She (the snake) started out eating baby mice, ended up eating rabbits, and weighing about 100 lbs. Became to big to handle by myself, and of course at that point the wife was no help....

You really know who your real friends are when you try to get someone to give you a hand when its time to clean the cage......

Larry

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #85 on:** February 11, 2012, 06:33:49 AM »

sorry larry i like pets that come when called. Sit when comanded ride around with me in the truck with there heads hanging out the door!!! Having a pet that looks at me like supper or at least as its enemy has no appeal to me. Plus im a little girl around snakes!!!!! I dont even like the non poisonous ones around here. Only good snake is a dead snake!!

blind ear · « **Reply #86 on:** February 11, 2012, 11:49:44 AM »

Quote from: Lloyd Smale on February 11, 2012, 06:33:49 AM

sorry larry i like pets that come when called. Sit when comanded ride around with me in the truck with there heads hanging out the door!!! Having a pet that looks at me like supper or at least as its enemy has no appeal to me. Plus im a little girl around snakes!!!!! I dont even like the non poisonous ones around here. Only good snake is a dead snake!!

If I had a pet snake it would be ceramic as in door stop. ear

jlwilliams · « **Reply #87 on:** February 11, 2012, 01:05:49 PM »

On the rat issue mentioned in the OP, I would agree that rats would be far more plentiful after most disasters than bears. I'm not saying that a pellet gun is the 'ultimate survival rifle' but I am saying that a pellet gun is a good thing to have. All the discussion of bears, wolves and the ballistic medicine they require is a whole other matter. If there were some economic breakdown, natural disaster or whatver, you may be greatful to have a pellet gun and a few tins of pellets around. You can bet that any incident rising to the level of "SHTF" will involve eating ugly little critters and I'll wager that it would involve more 'creative cuisine' than zombie battling. A 22 or a nice quiet little air rifle may be just the thing in a time like that. You can eat a tweety bird without ringing the bell telling everybody you got something (or that you have a gun, or whatever you don't want to broadcast). I wouldn't choose a pellet gun over a 357 or a 30-30, but I'd have one if I could.

Lost Farmboy · « **Reply #88 on:** February 11, 2012, 01:47:53 PM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on February 08, 2012, 05:06:11 AM

The whole idea was we don't need bear guns but guns for small game and protection. The idea is avoid bad people and bears to stay alive.

That was your original post. We have the right to disagree. I do.

The choice of survival weapons depends on your personality, abilities and environment you intend to survive in. Many of us will try to survive in an environment where there are no bears. The area I intend to survive in is crawling with them. They have killed and eat pigs and chickens in our neighborhood. To survive sooner or later we will have to leave the comfort of the house and survive in the wilderness full of bears. If a bear will come into a barn to kill and eat a pig in the middle of the night, what would stop him from killing and eating a man sleeping in a pup tent?

Avoid bears? Yes, as much as possible. But, they can smell food 4 miles away. It is much easier to avoid bad people than bad bears. Oh the trail that my buddy was demonstrating the braveheart bear gun on in post 62 had 2 very large piles of bear scat.

reliquary · « **Reply #89 on:** February 11, 2012, 02:59:22 PM »

My armory includes a Daisy Red Ryder BB rifle and a Crossman pump pellet rifle. Just in case.

And having said that, I can't "bear" any more of this and am outta here.