Author Topic: Blending Different Powder Lots (Read 1136 times)

togojeff · « **on:** December 13, 2010, 12:38:49 PM »

I have 4 different 1 lb containers of H-Varget. One is open
and the others are all sealed. They are all different lots.
I would like to blend all 4 containers together and have in effect
one lot of powder. Can I do this safely?

trotterlg · « **Reply #1 on:** December 13, 2010, 01:12:18 PM »

I would say it would be OK to do, I ususally put the last bit of powder from one batch into the new batch and just shake it up. Never had a problem. However...........once I finished of an older batch of Accurate 2520, and when I opened the new batch it was very clear they were not the same powder at all. I am guessing they went to a different maker who blended up a powder that had the same speed etc as whoever made it before, but I think blending these two would have been unwise, even to an untrained eye they were not the same. Larry

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 13, 2010, 01:53:21 PM »

Not sure I'd do it myself , however that being said , I see no real problems with it , I can't see were it would change the powder burn properties to a point were it becomes unsafe .

stimpy

necchi · « **Reply #3 on:** December 13, 2010, 02:06:23 PM »

I've done it. All powder were relativley new though, bought within weeks of each other at different stores for good prices.
Goal was to have 1 homogenous blend so I wouldn't/won't have to deal with minor variations in the lot # as is warned in so many books.
I was very carefull to remove the inner seal in one piece so it could be placed again to hopefully maintain some freashness before I need another can.
I'd like to just get an 8#er but just can't swing the cash in one lump sum

shot1 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 13, 2010, 02:40:56 PM »

I think it would be OK to do. Just do not use it to load an already established load. You will have to back off and work your way back up.

woodchukhntr · « **Reply #5 on:** December 13, 2010, 02:46:42 PM »

necchi and shot 1 are right. Since they are all the same powder it is OK to mix them to form a uniform blend. Then work up the load just as you would with any new load. I think that all reloaders have mixed the remains of one can into the new can.

togojeff · « **Reply #6 on:** December 13, 2010, 05:08:15 PM »

Thanks for the info everyone. I figured it would be alright, but I just wanted to confirm.
My powders were all purchased within the last year. I will start over from my
established loads as was mentioned.

togojeff · « **Reply #7 on:** December 14, 2010, 05:04:54 AM »

I e-mailed Hodgdon a couple of days ago on this matter and this was their response:

Quote

"We never recommend the mixing of different lots of powder together. You
won't be able to blend them together well enough to get uniform results."

I had been wondering myself about how to blend together the powders
well enough to get a uniform mixture. Any ideas?

charles p · « **Reply #8 on:** December 14, 2010, 05:26:52 AM »

Not certain, but does a powder begin to age faster once its container is opened? Probably not a big concern if you will be using it all within a few years.

gypsyman · « **Reply #9 on:** December 14, 2010, 09:59:05 AM »

I've done it, when I had just a couple loads left in a container, and put it in a new one, and shook it up. With that much powder, you might want to use a plastic container, like a very clean,dry dish tub, or possibly a nice clean plastic bucket. (cleaned out kitty litter bucket maybe?) I would dump them in, and procede to mix with a wooden spoon or spatula maybe. Give it a good 5 to 10 minute stirring. I wouldn't be afraid to do it. gypsyman

woodchukhntr · « **Reply #10 on:** December 14, 2010, 12:59:17 PM »

Your wife, if you are so lucky, mixes cake ingredients thoroughly every time she makes a cake. It's no different with powder. Hodgdon doesn't recommend it because they have no way to control what you are doing and will take no responsibility.

togojeff · « **Reply #11 on:** December 14, 2010, 04:53:17 PM »

Quote from: woodchukhntr on December 14, 2010, 12:59:17 PM

Your wife, if you are so lucky, mixes cake ingredients thoroughly every time she makes a cake. It's no different with powder.

No wife but I make cookies, so I should have no problem blending powder.

Dezynco · « **Reply #12 on:** December 14, 2010, 05:36:27 PM »

I try to avoid mixing lots of powder within the same batch of reloads. However, I don't see any real issues by mixing the powders together and THEN loading up a batch of cartridges. Stir the different lots together so that it's all blended and get to loadin'.

Probably wouldn't be much of a difference by mixing lots within the same batch of loads either. The specs on powders are pretty closely controlled, so probably won't make a nickle's worth of difference, but I don't usually, for instance, pour powder from a new can into the powder measure until the old is used up first. Just my practice, but probably make very little difference.

davem270win · « **Reply #13 on:** December 17, 2010, 07:14:34 AM »

If you're using that much of one number, buy several pounds of the same lot at the same time. Or, buy an 8lb container.

dickttx · « **Reply #14 on:** December 17, 2010, 10:54:18 AM »

Quote from: woodchukhntr on December 14, 2010, 12:59:17 PM

Your wife, if you are so lucky, mixes cake ingredients thoroughly every time she makes a cake. It's no different with powder. Hodgdon doesn't recommend it because they have no way to control what you are doing and will take no responsibility.

You probably don't want to use her mixer tho.

togojeff · « **Reply #15 on:** December 17, 2010, 02:00:49 PM »

Quote from: davem270win on December 17, 2010, 07:14:34 AM

If you're using that much of one number, buy several pounds of the same lot at the same time. Or, buy an 8lb container.

Good advice but too late now, must use the powder I'm stuck with.

MePlat · « **Reply #16 on:** December 17, 2010, 04:06:47 PM »

I have mixed Alliant 2400 before and had good results with it. I know that isn't Varget but it shows what can be done.Heres why
45 Colt Blackhawk with a 45/8's barrel
18.5 gr 2400 Mihec 270 SAA bullet actual weight 280 gr. ALL LOADS
Federal 150 primer lot 3A-9521

Lot 645 Shift 2 Feb 4 1991 Lot 729 Shift ? Sept8, 2004
Ave vel. 1022 Ave. Vel. 1065

Lot 642 Shift 3 Nov 1, 1990
Ave Vel. 1025

Lot 746 Shift 2 Nov9, 2007
Ave Vel. 1067

Now get this with a change of primer lots to 4A-1474 with the lot 746 Shift 2 Nov. 9, 2007 powder velocity jumped to 1132 fps ave. from 1067 fps with the lot of primers 3A-9521
Now the velocity spread for the 4 lots of powder with the lot 3A-9521 primer was 45 fps the velocity jump by changing the lot of primers to 4A-1474 with the same lot of powder was 65 fps.

I have newer lots of 2400 but didn't want to open them. The older lots were given to me by a buddy and had never been opened.
This should tell us something but it is up to the individual to figure it out.
All loads were chronoed on the same day back to back.

Javelina · « **Reply #17 on:** December 19, 2010, 12:07:48 PM »

Your decision to mix different powder lots is your own, although you should know that there are pitfalls to consider if you do mix different containers of the same powder together. . .

When mixing, agitating, sifting, etc., any powder with surface-applied burn-controlling retardant, be very careful not to overdo any of your mixing activities as the burn-controlling retardant can be reduced/removed during the process giving you an entirely new burn rate which you may find is extremely dangerous to your health if you are unaware of this fact. It's a lot easier than you think to affect a burn rate in this manner and it also happens in a lot less time than you might think.

As previously mentioned, periodically the actual manufacturer of a given powder is changed and even if the end product looks the same, important characteristics of the powder may not actually be identical. You have a leg up on the situation if the actual physical powder is a different color or shape so you would know not to throw that dis-similar powder into your mix no matter what else you do.

Always make sure that you are only mixing one type of powder if you choose to combine partial containers, don't let a stray powder type get in with several partial containers of another powder.

Do many handloaders mix different powder lots? Sure they do, but that doesn't exactly make it a great idea. You are gambling with the percentages that you won't be the one to have a serious, problematic and/or injurious result. Is a small convenience worth the chance of injuring yourself or. . .God forbid. . .someone else which may also include your own family members. The great thing about being over 21 is that you get to decide these things for yourself. The bad thing about being over 21 is that you are responsible to yourself and others to make the correct and proper decision - if you don't, there are doctors, hospitals, morticians, prosthetic specialists and lawyers to point out your errors of judgment. This is one situation where lawyers may actually be the best choice, but I digress. . .

Are these extreme examples, scare tactics and preaching by an overly cautious guy like me? Maybe, but I doubt it. Being a selfish guy, I'd like to have the chance to meet all you potential powder-mixers at the range some day and during that time, I'd rather not have to hear about how you lost an eye, a child, or your family fortune because you made a mistake in judgment. I personally like great stories about hunting, shooting and outdoors camaraderie. . .the kind of stories you'll be telling if you DON'T have an accident.

You're probably wondering why I have such a great interest in your health. It is because I have a great friend who made the wrong choice when it came to combining some different powder lots a while back - you can't always be sure that when you take a risk that you won't be the one out of "X" number of folks who comes up a little short in the luck category. He still has the scars and structural damage to the face he has to wear out in public every day and he brings the same face home to his family every day as well. I believe if you ask him what his opinion is these days, he would now most likely rather stick with the safest thing which is not to combine the powder lots - but his is just one of many opinions, I'm sure you have your own. When it comes to handloading and shooting safety, I hope you will choose your path wisely.

Javelina

MePlat · « **Reply #18 on:** December 19, 2010, 05:03:37 PM »

Javelina:

I applaud you on wanting to be careful. So am I. I try to understand where people are coming from.
You brought up a very valid point in mentioning accidentally dumping a different powder in to the mix. Are positive that your buddy didn't do that?
Most of us are not careful enough I will say that though.
Occasionally a lot will get out that is quite milder or hotter than the previous but how many will always drop back and rework a load when they get a new pound of powder? Not may I would venture to guess.
Anyway you bring up a very valid point.

sr sawyer · « **Reply #19 on:** December 20, 2010, 03:03:19 PM »

It seems to usually take an Uh-oh to get a reloaders attention. Since I have been loading a looong time I kinda ignored the rule to work back up when changing powder lot number. I just assumed this rule applied only when you were using max or about max loads.

I was loading the .243 with H450 at 2 grains below book max and all I changed was the bottle of powder which of course had a different lot number. The first shot the bolt felt a little sticky and the second pierced the primer. Sure got my attention

Turned out a full 3 grains below my previous load, which was a total of 5 grains below book max, is all the powder bullet combo this rifle would shoot without pressure signs.

Best not to ignore the time proven rules with this hobby

Ken

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #20 on:** December 21, 2010, 01:44:32 AM »

I do it all the time. If theres a differnce in burning rates load to what the fastest lot was acting like and youll have no problems. As to agitating powder and cause burning rate differnces. Ive tumbled live rounds for 3 hours using 5 dffernt powders and chorographed them before and after and found absolutely no differnce in velocitys so shaking a bit of powder together sure isnt going to hurt a thing.