Reduced 308 load for deer

[BIG JAKE]

Has anyone used the 170gr hornaday flat point 30-30 bullet in a 308. Looking to load it around 2400-2500 fps.

[shot1]

2400 or 2500 fps with a 170 gr bullet is not much of a reduced load in a 308 win. 2400 fps is about 300 fps faster than what a 30-30 rifle will do with the 170 gr flat nose that itwas designed for. It definitely will expand a lot at those velocities. If you are looking for a lighter recoiling load for the 308 and a real deer killer out to 300 yards load up some 125 Nosler ballistic tips with 46 grs IMR 4895. This will do right at 3000 fps from a 22" barrel and is a deer hammer. Sight your rifle to hit 3 inches high at 100 yards and it will only be between 4 and 5 inches low at 300 yards. Hold in the center of a deers front shoulder and don't worry about shooting over or under it out to 300 yards. I have killed between 25 and 30 deer with the 125 ballistic tip out of two rifles, 308 win at 3000 fps and 30X47 HBR at 2850 fps and a Contender pistol 14" barrel 30-30AI at 2670 fps and only two have taken a step after being hit and they only went 30 yards. One of those was my fault because of poor bullet placement with the pistol having to shoot a buck while he was crossing a logging road and I had to shoot quickly. I hit him lower than I wanted to on the front shoulder but it still blew his heart to bits and he took three jumps and was down for the count.

[BRL]

Which is more of a factor for reduced recoil...velocity or bullet weight? I know they both play roles but 125gr at 3,000 doesn't sound like it would be that much lighter in recoil compared to a factory 150 at say 2,700. I don't know.

Can it be as easy to say that a 20% reduction in bullet weight with a 20% increase in velocity yield the same recoil as the original load? As bullet weight drops how much would velocity be able to increase to keep the recoil the same? Or, the opposite...as weight increases, how much would velocity have to drop to keep recoil the same?

My goal has recently switched to reducing recoil in my hunting load so I can shoot more at the range and not have the loads deer taking capabilities suffer too much. I'm not sure if the original post was thinking along the same lines.

Thanks!!  

[BIG JAKE]

Sorry missed type the velocity. I'm looking around 2000 to 2100  it's for my 13 year old son. He has a ruger hawkeye in 308 wich standard loads are still a little to much for him. Shots will be less than 100 yards and on average more like 50.

[BRL]

Have your heard of, or tried, the factory reduced loads to just see how he responds to that type of load? Remington and Federal make lite loads for .308. Remington's is the lighter bullet (125gr.) at somewhere around 2,500 or more (can't remember exactly) and Federal's is the 170gr. at around 2,200. Check their websites. At least you could buy a box and see how they shoot/recoil.

[BIG JAKE]

I was planning on doing that. But this gun is finicky about what it likes and I was trying to get a few starting loads if that doesn't pan out.

[shot1]

The 125 ballistic tip at 3000 fps has much less felt recoil than a 150 gr at 2800 fps. You can go with either bullet 125 or the 170 loaded down and do fine for you use.

My buddy came up the the 46 grs IMR 4895 and the 125 Nosler ballistic tip load for his girl friend that could not handle standard 150 gr bullet loads in a Ruger 77 308 carbine. She could handle the 125 gr bullet load really well and killed a bunch of deer with it. You can load the 125 down even more. It will expand down to 1800 fps. If you want to work with less velocity I would start with 42.3 grs IMR 4895 and work my way up to 46 grs. IMR 4895 has always shot really well in the 308 with about any load for me. This bullet really kills deer well as I have stated. It is one of the preferred bullets to use in the Contender pistols in 30-30 Win and other 30 caliber rounds for deer size game so it does work well at lower velocity. I killed 4 deer with my Contender pistol in 30-30AI from 45 to 80 yards with the 125 ballistic tip at 2670 fps and had complete penetration on broad side through the shoulders shots. Dropped three of them in their tracks and one only took three jumps and was dead. Vitals were really messed up with quarter to golf ball size exits. 

Even with the 170s loaded down to 2100 fps or so it will probably have more felt recoil than the faster 125 gr loads. I know that a similar weight 336 Marlin in 30-30 win has more felt recoil with 170s going average 2100 fps than my Rem 700 308 win shooting the 3000 fps 125 gr bullet load.

I would get your son use to shooting with the lighter 125 gr loadings and work your way up. Make sure the rifle fits him well and he always has ear protection and uses good shooting form. Practice will build confidence and who knows he may just find out that he can handle full power loads soon. 

[BIG JAKE]

 Thanks I will give it a try.

[BBF]

Being south for the winter I don't have any manuals to look this up.
See if the 308 has a Hogdon listing for a 150 gr bullet using their 4895 if so you can reduce this load to 60% of maximum. This may give you a gentle enough load and good expansion on a 30-30 bullet design.


PS
 I just looked it up on the Hogdon Loading Data Site, YES they have a H-4895 load for 150 gr bullets

[BIG JAKE]

Thanks I'll try that one too.

[Mikey]

Jake:  if you were looking at 30-30 weight slugs for reduced loads in the 308, think about cast slugs.  There are a couple out there, readily available, in the 173 gn weight, with a gas check, that shoot with pistol powders out in the 1200 - 1600'/sec range.  One accuracy load with that slug runs at around 1250-1290'/sec and there is another out to about 1600'/sec.  Something like that might get you there....

[zoner]

i'd go with a 170 gr gas check cast bullet with imr 4759, 1600-1800fps

[wreckhog]

Has anyone used the 170gr hornaday flat point 30-30 bullet in a 308. Looking to load it around 2400-2500 fps.

I tried them with 2.8cc of IMR4895, which is around your original velocity request from a 22". Feels slightly, and I mean slightly less powerful than a factory load. Never shot great, so never bothered trying it on game.

[BBF]

I tried them with 2.8cc of IMR4895, ......

2.8cc!!  Say what??

[BBF]

Truth be told, I'm wary of any small caliber cast bullet for large game unless moved at a pretty good clip to give some expansion and a 30 cal bullet is small to me in that medium. Now if they were swaged with a much softer alloy I would think different.  

[84Jim]

I used to load 170 FP's for my Dad in his Model 88 Win. .308.  It was before I started keeping load records in a book, so I don't know the exact receipe, other than I probably used IMR 4064.  It was always a point of contention between us, as he wanted full power loads and I thought 30-30 velocities would be best for bullet performance.  We compromised and probably ended up with the 2400 fps (or so) that you want.  He killed quite a few deer with that combination and it was deadly on whitetails that were shot at ranges from 25 to 100 yds.

Interestingly, we also tried 125 PH's after that, and had a bad experience with a doe where the bullet blew up upon impact and didn't leave a blood trail.  We found the deer after a long and difficult tracking job, and he decided to go with a heavier bullet after that.  I know many people won't agree, but I'm not a fan of 30 cal 125's for deer.

Jim

[shot1]

You have never shot deer with the 125 Nosler ballistic tips. It is made for deer size game. The 125 Sierra is more of a varmint bullet. It has a thinner jacket. One other problem with 125 gr 30 cal bullets is people pushing them too fast. Keep the 125 Ballistic Tip under 3100 fps muzzle velocity and it really works well.

[41 mag]

Hey Jake,

I have one of the Ruger Compact's in .308. It was used by my then 3.5yr old grandson to take his first hog with a reduced load. Look at the Hodgdon site and they have a listing for several bullet weights using H-4895.

We started off with the Nosler BT, but after a shot on a coyote resulted in no pass through I decided I wanted something with a bit more penetration. I switched over to the Barnes 130gr TTSX, and never looked back. I tried it out on several hogs out to 150 - 200yds and got complete penetration on them. This is using around 40grs or so.

These shoot very accurately in this rifle and recoil is very light. Your 13yr old should have no issues at all with them. You can work them up in charge until you reach the standard max load as well, which will zip right along for a nice flat shooting combo.

Good luck, hope this helps.

[BIG JAKE]

Thanks will give a try.

[Lloyd Smale]

Id go a slightly differnt route. Id load the 125s but i would keep my velocitys down to around 2700 fps. Still plenty of killing power for deer and flat enough shooting for 250 yard shots and it would prevent any bullet failure from shooting a thin jackted bullet to fast. Plus the recoil would be even less. I did something simular for my kids when they were little with the 250 sav. I loaded 87s to around 2600-2700 fps and they killed alot of deer with those loads.

[TLARbb]

Pick up some Nosler partitions for the .30-30 and they will be sparkling in your reduced .308 loading.  It's a round nose, but it will work fine for the ranges you are expecting.

EJ