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Offline Skunk

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The debate over Russian boars in Michigan
« on: December 16, 2010, 10:30:28 AM »
The debate over Russian boars: Good for sports hunting and tourism? Or destructive to Michigan farms?

By Rosemary Parker, Kalamazoo Gazette; found at Mlive.com

December 05, 2010


LANSING — Are Russian boars Public Enemy No. 1, or a hot tourist draw that boost rural economies?

In the wild, the huge, hairy beasts tear up farm fields and habitat and carry diseases that threaten the state’s $300 million commercial pork industry. Environmentalists and pork producers are pushing to ban the animals from Michigan.

But “sport swine” are gold for private game ranch owners who have built their businesses on boar hunts, and want to be allowed to continue to breed and hunt them on their own lands.

The issue will come to a head Thursday when Rebecca Humphries, director of the Michigan Department of Natural Resources and Environment, is expected to act on the proposed ban or order stricter rules to regulate ownership of the sport-swine species.  Humphries will address the issue at the Michigan Natural Resources Commission’s meeting in Lansing.

Game ranch owners say banning Russian boars and other exotic swine  — or even strengthening regulation of those animals — could drive ranches out of business and hurt other state businesses that benefit from their tourism draw.

But with the state’s natural resources and pork industry hanging in the balance, it’s unclear whether their voice will be heard.

In the end, the matter may be settled in the courts.
 
Anti-hunting, anti-business?

If Russian boars are declared illegal invasive species under the state’s Natural Resources and Environmental Protection Act, “you’re gonna wipe out about 40 to 50 businesses within the state in about six months — they’ll be gone,” said Doug Miller, owner of Thunder Hills Ranch near Jackson.
 
Miller believes the proposal is simply anti-hunting prejudice aimed at further decimating the state’s $60 million game ranch industry, which is down to 445 ranches this year, compared to 815 in 2004.

Pig hunts are the bread and butter of the smaller game ranches, Miller said. The animals provide an affordable entry into the world of private hunting, Miller said, as groups can split the cost of a $525 hog hunt and come away with hundreds of pounds of meat.

“Everyone can afford to do that, plus they get the meat,” Miller said.  “My deer hunts start at $2,000 and go to $10,000,” not an option for as many hunters, he said.

“The really huge places, they’ll stay in business because they shoot $50,000 deer,” Miller said.
 
Long-standing trouble

Pig hunts have been offered at game ranches for at least 15 years, but swine are not included in regulations for the facilities. Those rules are designed largely to keep deer and elk contained on the properties and not mingling with the state’s wild deer herd, said Shannon Hanna,  a wildlife biologist and special-projects coordinator with the DNRE.

“The fencing and all regulations in that law are for deer. A 10-foot fence doesn’t keep a pig from running underneath it,” she said.
 
And when pigs escape, they can wreak havoc.
 
In the wild, they breed prolifically and brandish their curved tusks at anyone or anything that stirs their ill temper. They have been sighted in every county in the state.

Since 2006, Hanna has scrambled to monitor the unregulated sport-swine trade as it overlaps her work with the licensed high-fence deer and elk farms in the state.

Although there is no official mechanism for tracking the number of feral swine, the DNRE estimates 3,000 to 5,000 wild pigs roam the state, and wildlife officials believe most are the offspring of escapees from game ranches.
 
Miller said no pig has escaped its enclosure since he opened his ranch in 1995, and he questions the validity of the DNRE estimates.

But environmental groups and pork producers have seen the troubles feral swine have caused in other states, and hope to stop the problem here before it gets worse.

The DNRE’s wildlife division has determined that the sport pigs fit the definition of invasive species — they are not native to the state, have demonstrated the potential to harm people and natural and agricultural resources, and are nearly impossible to control or eradicate once populations become established.

If the director of the DNRE signs an order declaring wild sport swine prohibited invasive species, ownership and propagation of Russian boars and other wild pigs for hunting would be against the law.

“If the director signs that order, it’s game over,” Hanna said.

But the director could also use the threat of such an order to push along laws regulating ownership of swine.  For example, the order declaring wild swine illegal could be written to take effect by a specified date unless strict regulatory legislation was adopted.

Groups weigh in

The debate over wild boars revolves around money: Does the contribution of sport swine to Michigan’s economy outweigh the risks associated with their escape and spread in the wild?
 
“We think the director should sign the (invasive species) order and prohibit the keeping of (sport) hogs in Michigan,” said Dennis Fijalkowski, executive director of the Michigan Wildlife Conservancy. Regulation is not practical, he said, and the measures needed to prevent pigs from escaping are too expensive for the industry to adopt.

Don Koivisto. director of the Michigan Department of Agriculture, said he believes that, at the very least, there should be  “no new ones (game ranches) allowed while we are working on (problems created by) the old ones.”
 
Michigan United Conservation Clubs supports the director signing an order banning the wild boars, which would take effect if legislation regulating the industry is not in place “in a pretty short time frame,” said Amy Trotter, resource policy manager for the club.

“If we can regulate them adequately,” with full funding to implement the regulations, “then fine. MUCC’s position is we don’t want any hunter/angler money used to regulate (swine).

“Our concern at MUCC has been if the Legislature fails to act, or waters down recommendations from the swine work group.”

Contact Rosemary Parker at rparker@kalamazoogazette.com or 269-388-2734.

http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/12/the_debate_over_russian_wild_b.html

Mike

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Online JeffG

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Re: The debate over Russian boars in Michigan
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2011, 07:30:32 PM »
Any news on this subject? AKA: anti hunters picking away at sport hunting??? This is the way I spend my hunting and tourism dollars....in Michigan.  I can go to Missouri, or Oklahoma if you'd like. 8)
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Offline BBF

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Re: The debate over Russian boars in Michigan
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2011, 07:17:49 AM »
If I had a game farm with boars and they outlawed it, I'd make sure all of them escaped one night. >:( :-X
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Offline tacklebury

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Re: The debate over Russian boars in Michigan
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2011, 12:27:28 PM »
I just look at some of the areas of texas completely over-run.  Nuff said.  We don't need them and I don't want to see our farmers fighting worse stuff than the feral swine already in the thumb area.  Just my 2cp...
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: The debate over Russian boars in Michigan
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2011, 02:20:06 AM »
theres at least 3 pig hunting operations within a 100 miles of me that have been there at least 10 years and ive yet to hear of a pig in the wild. A buddy of mine owns one of them and has had pigs escape twice. both times he took his dogs out and found and shot them. Personal i see this whole thing as nothing but another way the antis are trying to stop hunting.
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Online JeffG

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Re: The debate over Russian boars in Michigan
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2011, 04:51:33 PM »
In my opinion keeping the boars inside the fence is the point. No owner of a hog hunting operation wants his profits going under the fence. Vaccines can be fed in supplements and healthy herds are the goal of most places. the fear and anxieties of hogs over running the state are from the antis and made more dramatic by the (tabloid) media. IMHO
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Re: The debate over Russian boars in Michigan
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2011, 01:35:14 PM »
Quote
They have been sighted in every county in the state.


Do you really think that's a valid statement?
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: The debate over Russian boars in Michigan
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2011, 02:43:15 AM »
only if your sighting them inside an enclosure. I remember a while back baraga county up here was in the paper because wild hogs were supposidly running free. Me being the type that will hunt about anything called a buddy who lived there to set something up. He said the whole thing was bs. He spent 3 days of hard looking in the area that they were suppose to be running all around and didnt even see a track or sign. that story kind of died off and ive heard nothing else about it. Come to find out one pig escaped an encloser and was killed the next day. Believe about 1 percent of the bs the media puts out about this big hog problem we have.
Quote
They have been sighted in every county in the state.


Do you really think that's a valid statement?
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Offline 1sourdough

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Re: The debate over Russian boars in Michigan
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2011, 02:28:38 AM »
 Looks like these operations may be shut down, unless intervention occurs. I also support them. They(boars) surely are not going to take over the U.P.

  FWIW, I was in on that Baraga Co escaped boar event. I was with a friend when he shot one, maybe 120 lbs or so. We let another cut it up & had some while out camping, the rest was utilized too. It was like a firmer pork chop. We may of over cooked it.

  Many went out looking for 'escaped boars' few were found & shot. I doubt if the wolves would allow much of a toehold with a population.

  Here's one business in MI that's actually doing well & it's going to be shut down. :(
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Offline t-reg

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Re: The debate over Russian boars in Michigan
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2011, 03:45:53 PM »
Here's one business in MI that's actually doing well & it's going to be shut down. :(

Personal i see this whole thing as nothing but another way the antis are trying to stop hunting.

Agreed on both statements.
 
I cover a lot of ground on my horse and haven't seen any pigs or pig sign in three years.  Even then it was very minimal. 

Offline clum sum

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Re: The debate over Russian boars in Michigan
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2011, 04:12:27 PM »
I can understand whay Scatterbrain is called Scatterbrain, it's a bunch of idiots that let the pythons lose in the Everglades and if He had a bunch of wild hogs tear up half of his yard in one night he would won't to shoot the S.O.B.that let the lose.
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Offline Swampman

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Re: The debate over Russian boars in Michigan
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2011, 04:45:57 PM »
What's the difference between feral hogs and sport swine?
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Offline clum sum

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Re: The debate over Russian boars in Michigan
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2011, 12:37:28 PM »
They are sport swine inside a fence, then they become feral hogs when they get outside of the fence. In Fla. all wild hogs are only game on state management lands.
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Offline Swampman

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Re: The debate over Russian boars in Michigan
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2011, 12:50:01 PM »
Do the wild hogs know that?  In FL hogs are treated as live stock and may be killed year round.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline jcn59

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Re: The debate over Russian boars in Michigan
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2012, 05:41:46 PM »
So, did they shut down the fenced-in hog hunting?
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: The debate over Russian boars in Michigan
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2012, 01:59:45 AM »
Both of the guys that run them that i know up here say there not stopping. they about are taking the stand that if you want me to stop arrest me and put me in jail and i dont think the dnr wants that publicity
So, did they shut down the fenced-in hog hunting?
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Offline jcn59

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Re: The debate over Russian boars in Michigan
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2012, 05:27:24 AM »
Good for David!  I hope he tells them to go to he!!.   Don't know the other guy.
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Offline petemi

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Re: The debate over Russian boars in Michigan
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2012, 04:25:15 AM »
Do the wild hogs know that?  In FL hogs are treated as live stock and may be killed year round.

When I lived in Florida they were live stock on Private Property, and game animals on Public Land.  I used to pen trap them on my own property, corn feed them a bit, and butcher.  On public land, the legal hunting dates coincided with the deer season if I recall correctly.  I used to hunt them on base at Cecil Field in the early sixties.

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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: The debate over Russian boars in Michigan
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2012, 12:43:16 AM »
the other guy is Jeff Debaker. Hes a real character. If you think Dave is unique you ought to meet jeff!! Jeffs operation is much bigger then daves and he has alot more at stake. Hes one of the only guys up here i know that actually does have a lawyer on retainer and he needs him often ;)
Good for David!  I hope he tells them to go to he!!.   Don't know the other guy.
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Offline jcn59

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Re: The debate over Russian boars in Michigan
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2012, 05:30:02 AM »
Is Jeff the "Black Death",  "When you hear the rolling thunder of the hunter's shot, you know he has just conquered the Black Death" guy?   Or something like that?
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Offline Drilling Man

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Re: The debate over Russian boars in Michigan
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2012, 06:48:30 AM »
  There is NO debate on my land, they will be shot on sight!
 
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Re: The debate over Russian boars in Michigan
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2012, 07:24:10 AM »
That's pretty much how it is in Wisconsin:  If you see a "wild pig", shoot it.  I've been in Sawyer county over 20 years and never saw one.  Doesn't seem to be much of a problem here.  I believe that in the very few places that have them, the land owners won't let you shoot them. 
 
I'm curious, are there ANY wild pigs in wolf country anywhere?  Doesn't seem likely to me.
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: The debate over Russian boars in Michigan
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2012, 01:01:18 AM »
if a couple escaped up here they surely wouldnt make it past deer season anyway. theres about a hunter ever 100 yards around both of those pig hunting operations come deer season.
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Online JeffG

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Re: The debate over Russian boars in Michigan
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2012, 07:33:14 AM »
I am not suprised that Jeff and David are pioneering the right to keep wild boar in high fence operations for hunting. Both are great guys. I am headed back to Superior Game Ranch in March. This whole debate has been clouded by the media by confusing people with mixed terms.
As Uncle Ted would say "Where have we seen this before??"
 The DNR has alleged that any feral pig occurrances (outside fences)are the fault of the high fence escapees, and...that there are wild pigs running free to ruin crops, terrorize people and endanger domestc pigs with disease.(In every county of the state!)
  For lack of a better word, this is hogwash!  High fence herds are innoculated and the fences are monitored. No game rancher wants his/her profits going under the fence. The DNR wants fees from legal business people to regulate high fence operations in the (proposed ) neighborhood of $3500 a year!! 
How many logging or construction operations pay that?  When the DNR didn't get their way, they used they media to get the public to believe that there were pigs running through their neigborhoods; then the legislature noticed it.
 The legislature still hasn't properly acted on it...they shipped it to the Agriculture committee for review....THE AGRICULTURE COMMITTEE IS STILL FAILING TO ACT ON IT. 
The ban is an executive order from the director of the DNR. An enforcement agency is now making law.
You always could,( and still can!!) shoot run-wild pigs on sight. Show me a shot pig outside a fence; I would bet you a nice crisp $50 bill there are less that 10 a year in the whole state. I would bet there are less that 2 that came from game ranches.
Don't you think if the problem is that bad, pig sightings, shootings, and yard and garden damage would beon the NIGHTLY news....with film clips and interviews??!!  Not happening in Wisconsin either, by the way...
The DNR didn't get the iron fist effect that they wanted, so they sold the story to the media. Kinda what the movie Jaws did for sharks...not good.
So, the debate is not about protecting the run-wild pigs (dead pig walking!)....it's about the ability to run a legal business in Michigan so that folks like me can hunt wild boar in a state closer than Texas.
And of course, the issue of the DNR making law without the benefit of the legislative process.
 
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Re: The debate over Russian boars in Michigan
« Reply #24 on: February 29, 2012, 06:03:37 AM »
The Manistee Advocate[/font]Monday February 27, 2012
http://news.pioneergroup.com/manisteenews/2012/02/27/dnr-order-threatens-heritage-swine-farmers-because-of-how-their-pigs-look/
DNR order threatens heritage swine farmers because of how their pigs look
By DARWIN L. BOOHER
State Senator – 35th District

When Mark Baker retired from the Air Force after protecting our nation for 20 years, he never thought he would be fighting his own state government to protect his family’s livelihood. Unfortunately, that’s what is happening now.
Four years ago, Mark, his wife and six children began raising Mangalitsa and Russian swine at Baker’s Green Acres farm. The breeds are two of the many types of heritage hogs and there is a tremendous market for niche animals like these pigs for small farm operations.
However, Mark and other farmers that raise heritage swine are being told by the Michigan Department of Natural Resources (DNR) that they must get rid of them by April 1.
In December 2010, the Michigan DNR issued an invasive species order (ISO) to make certain types of swine an invasive species, which prohibits farmers from raising them on their farms. The order became effective on Oct. 8, 2011 and affects all heritage hogs in Michigan. Even potbellied pigs, which are often raised as pets, may now be considered an invasive species inMichigan.
It’s ironic that just a week after the ISO’s effective date Traverse City hosted Pigstock, a four-day course about Michigan Mangalitsa pigs. The course taught about breeding and husbandry practices, methods of processing and charcuterie. Chefs from throughout the Midwest attended the conference. Now, the DNR’s order jeopardizes not only this conference, but the economic opportunities for small farm operations that raise heritage pigs.
The DNR’s thinking is irrational. The department says we must ban certain pigs because the state has a feral hog problem (pigs running at-large or outside a fence). But since all pigs outside of a fence are feral and the DNR cannot genetically differentiate between swine, the department decided to ban certain pigs in Michigan simply due to their appearance.
In December 2012, the DNR issued a ruling describing the characteristics that pigs cannot have or they will be considered an invasive species. Hence the Mangalista, along with many other breeds of swine that look different, are now considered invasive.
The politics of all of this – let’s call it pig politics – has been nothing less than amazing.
The small farmers I have talked to wonder why the DNR is singling out their pigs and is joining forces with the Michigan Pork Producers Association on this issue. They believe the association wants all pigs to be raised in confinement facilities, and the best way to achieve that is to make it illegal to raise certain swine, especially those offering alternatives to the white pork raised in confinement.
In a Nov. 2, 2010 Traverse City Record-Eagle story, Agriculture Commissioner Don Coe said the Mangalitsa pigs can be grown locally, “not in large feedlots, but humanely, on small farms, the way they used to be.”
I believe it was a mistake for the DNR to involve itself in an agricultural issue that is not associated whatsoever with its mission. The DNR is charged with management of game and wildlife owned by the public – not the regulation of privately-owned animals. That is the responsibility of the Michigan Department of Agriculture and Rural Development.
My legislative colleagues and I have repeatedly asked the DNR to revise the ISO so it will not apply to pigs that are raised by people. We specifically asked DNR Director Rodney Stokes to rescind the order or revise it to apply only to pigs running wild outside a fence. Governor Snyder could also require it to be changed. Unfortunately neither has taken action.
This is a perfect example of government and bureaucrats moving their own agendas forward with total disregard for the law, private property rights and the Constitution.
Most importantly, it leaves Mark Baker – a man who has served our country honorably – little choice but to take action on his own to protect his family’s way of life from an overzealous state department. Beyond Mark, there are farmers all acrossMichigan that the DNR dictates must depopulate their animals because they are invasive species simply based on looks.
I oppose the DNR’s actions and will continue to stand up against this state government overreach.
I encourage you to contact Governor Snyder and DNR Director Stokes to express your opposition to this type of government behavior. Ask them to rescind this order and stand up for the small businesses that are providing choice in Michigan’s food industry.
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Offline alleyyooper

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Re: The debate over Russian boars in Michigan
« Reply #25 on: February 29, 2012, 07:36:09 AM »
Take your fenced in hunting to another state as far as I am consirned. To much has happened to this country (USA) because of exoctics being interduced. We didn't need the dam wolves either but we have them thank you all who supported having them.
I also know Darwin Booher personally from many years ago when he was a teller at the First National Bank of Evart. He is also the neighbour of my brother in law who worked on Darwins dads farm many years ago.
I can tell you straight up Darwin is not a total sportsman. He maybe shoots a buck on occation but as far as other game anbd the management of it he hasn't a clue.
 :D   Al
 
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Offline RevJim

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Re: The debate over Russian boars in Michigan
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2012, 11:34:25 AM »
 I am booked for next week up in Negaunee for a boar hunt. I was supposed to get a big herd boar, but just got a call from the owner. He can't import any more hogs from Canada. these are the pure strain Eurasians. They have plenty of the Trophy class, so coming anyway. I just want to see that country and those wooley hogs.
  Lots of folks don't like hogs on the game farms, I understand their worry. Of course, every game ranch I ever hunted in Texas made sure they had good fences. So, the real problems are domesticated hogs gone wild or improperly kept hogs, whether in Texas or Michigan. Plenty of laws on the books already to handle both of those situations. I'm sure the MI folks will get this all sorted out, in meantime, the FEDS kept my friend from importing the hogs from Canada. What else will the FEDS end up keeping us from doing? Just saying, no flame.

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: The debate over Russian boars in Michigan
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2012, 01:15:33 AM »
differnce is the game farms arent introducing them into the wild like the dnr did with the wolves. I wonder if it could be proved that a couple wild pigs roamed around in MI before white settlers came here if the dnr would change gears and say they needed to be restored ;)   No, the problem here is two fold. The anti gun and anti hunting people want to eliminate hunting altogether and this is a foothold into the process and secondly the dnr doenst make any money off of liciencing. If they made 5 bucks a pop off each pig shot id bet you a dime to a dollar it would have never been stopped.
as to fenced hunting thats a very personal thing. Some like it some dont but it sure doesnt hurt the ones that dont. Personaly i like it. I can go out for a day shoot a buffalo and have my meat for the year for about what i pay for it in the store and its better meat. Why some will protest against it and say its not ethical but then turn around and go to the store and buy beef that is slautered is something i dont understand. Im not one that goes and claims he shot a trophy and is some great white hunter. Ive shot 6 buffalo and havent even kept a hide. I do it for meat. Instead of standing in a grocery store watching my wife fill a cart, I can go out with a buddy and spend a fun day in the woods. Its a win win situation for me. If you dont like it or dont believe in it nobody is making you do it or effecting your hunting one iota.
Take your fenced in hunting to another state as far as I am consirned. To much has happened to this country (USA) because of exoctics being interduced. We didn't need the dam wolves either but we have them thank you all who supported having them.
I also know Darwin Booher personally from many years ago when he was a teller at the First National Bank of Evart. He is also the neighbour of my brother in law who worked on Darwins dads farm many years ago.
I can tell you straight up Darwin is not a total sportsman. He maybe shoots a buck on occation but as far as other game anbd the management of it he hasn't a clue.
 :D   Al
blue lives matter

Offline RevJim

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Re: The debate over Russian boars in Michigan
« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2012, 07:29:03 AM »
 Texas DWR figured out early how to get some $$ from the exotic game ranchs. They require a license to hunt 'anything, anywhere" in the state! This includes privately owned animals on private land...not just varmints,etc. Sure, it's a small amount for a 5 day non resident lic., but it always bothered me. Personally, I don't understand their legal argument; they aren't paying Game Wardens to do any patrolling, they aren't managing the deer herds/varmints or anything, it's just extorting money from folks who want to go have some fun, maybe get some heart healthy meat or a nice trophy w/p going to another country, and Texas has more of these animals than most of their original countries! For example, I shot a huge 32" Aoudad on a huge ranch in Sanderson, Texas. Thousands of acres, pure spot and stalk, 250yd shot after 2 hrs. If I had went to Chad, I first of all would never find any, they are extinct there for all practical purposes, second, I would have had to shoot it out with Muslim radical Fuzzy Wuzzies armed with AK's. ha.
  I don't have the time, money, nor the inclination to fly over to Germany/Hungary or the Baltics to shoot a big wooley Eurasian boar! So personally, I'm glad I can go to the the UP and (1) see part of my own country I've never seen before and it's people (2) shoot one of these kinds of hogs. Yes, I like game farms, and if anyone else doesn't, cool, no skin off me; however, their dislike gave incentive and indirect encouragement to the anti's to pass laws that "cost me" an opportunity at a really huge, gnarly boar.  :o :( >:(

Offline RevJim

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Re: The debate over Russian boars in Michigan
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2012, 07:53:39 AM »
  Now I hear where the DNR is planning on showing up at Game farms and farms in general, and going to shoot any hog with at least 0ne of nine criteria, mostly judged by hair coloration! AND, will arrest any owner who doesn't cooperate with them? WTH? What ever happened to the 4th Amendment?