Author Topic: don't ask don't tell  (Read 6526 times)

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Offline powderman

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Re: don't ask don't tell
« Reply #90 on: December 22, 2010, 05:26:49 AM »
Queers and honor ! ::)



HEH, Yep, a lot of honor there, pride too. POWDERMAN.  :D :D :D :D :D :D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline teamnelson

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Re: don't ask don't tell
« Reply #91 on: December 22, 2010, 07:51:42 AM »
25% is a low figure; stats from gulf war 1 were closer to 50% pregnancy (not co-located with their husbands), but that may be artificially skewed since pregnancy is a ticket out of combat. Military stopped publishing stats on that a few years back. Prostitution was rampant to the point that the MEF commander made it an operational priority to correct in 2008. These weren't Iraqi or 3rd country girls/guys either - these were troops. I don't know first hand, but I understand Afghanistan is the same.

For what it's worth, this particular clergy member will have to be kicked out; I'm not leaving over this. As long as my children, your children, grandchildren are serving and seek Gods truth, I'll be here. It'd be a Shame if decent folks just quit the field and left it for the dishonorable to control - I feel I owe it to God and country, and the honorable folks who have served before to do my part to preserve what I can. Besides, the need for spiritual truth is just going to increase, and that's why I serve.
held fast

Offline powderman

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Re: don't ask don't tell
« Reply #92 on: December 22, 2010, 08:05:48 AM »
News showed  the obamination smiling gleefully as he signed the bill, knowing he was driving another nail in our coffin.
TEAMNELSON. Good  for you, I'm proud to call you friend. More moral guidence than ever is needed now. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: don't ask don't tell
« Reply #93 on: December 22, 2010, 08:21:12 AM »
In talking with guys who were in Vietnam, a gay would be a friendly fire casualty.  About 25% of women sailors on ships end up getting pg.  Some come out fairly wealthy also. 
Can you hit us with a cite on that stat?
[/quot

There was an article out that stated 50 some women out of 400 and some. Got pregnant on the first time to sea when women were allowed to go for the first time. Don't know if its true or not . I would ask how many were when they left port ? How many had affairs at ports of call ? etc.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline nomosendero

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Re: don't ask don't tell
« Reply #94 on: December 22, 2010, 08:21:46 AM »
25% is a low figure; stats from gulf war 1 were closer to 50% pregnancy (not co-located with their husbands), but that may be artificially skewed since pregnancy is a ticket out of combat. Military stopped publishing stats on that a few years back. Prostitution was rampant to the point that the MEF commander made it an operational priority to correct in 2008. These weren't Iraqi or 3rd country girls/guys either - these were troops. I don't know first hand, but I understand Afghanistan is the same.

For what it's worth, this particular clergy member will have to be kicked out; I'm not leaving over this. As long as my children, your children, grandchildren are serving and seek Gods truth, I'll be here. It'd be a Shame if decent folks just quit the field and left it for the dishonorable to control - I feel I owe it to God and country, and the honorable folks who have served before to do my part to preserve what I can. Besides, the need for spiritual truth is just going to increase, and that's why I serve.

Good for you, you know the risk & forge ahead. Thanks
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: don't ask don't tell
« Reply #95 on: December 22, 2010, 08:35:04 AM »
Ok could someone clear up what advantage will homosexuals now have in the military ? I ask because maybe I missed something .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: don't ask don't tell
« Reply #96 on: December 22, 2010, 09:22:13 AM »
They were safer with the don't ask, don't tell policy.  Now they will be targets, especially in battle zones. 

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: don't ask don't tell
« Reply #97 on: December 22, 2010, 09:34:04 AM »
They were safer with the don't ask, don't tell policy.  Now they will be targets, especially in battle zones. 
We keep hearing that but no one offers why. The homosexual lifestyle is aginst my values . But to restrict them is opening the door to restrict stright people . If I were in a war zone and the machine gunner was dressed in red high heels and lipstix but kept fire off me I don't think I would be thinking about shooting him , just a thought .
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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: don't ask don't tell
« Reply #98 on: December 22, 2010, 10:00:16 AM »
I guess it depends on if they turn coward.  Someone I know that served in Vietnam said that if a West Point gung ho guy started pushing them to do things that they deemed to dangerous or exposed them, often were killed by friendly fire.  He said they trusted their sargents more than their leutenants who had no real experience in the type warfare they were fighting.  If someone was openly gay and aggressively pushing it, he might be caught in friendly fire. 

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: don't ask don't tell
« Reply #99 on: December 22, 2010, 10:16:43 AM »
I guess it depends on if they turn coward.  Someone I know that served in Vietnam said that if a West Point gung ho guy started pushing them to do things that they deemed to dangerous or exposed them, often were killed by friendly fire.  He said they trusted their sargents more than their leutenants who had no real experience in the type warfare they were fighting.  If someone was openly gay and aggressively pushing it, he might be caught in friendly fire. 
I have heard the same tales . If someone was acting as you suggest he might get all the male attention he could stand at the blanket party held in his name. I have heard of several of those and one stiff brush power wash party for a guy who didn't think he had BO .
I would suggest he would have heard the same tales also and would not screw up !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline MGMorden

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Re: don't ask don't tell
« Reply #100 on: December 22, 2010, 10:35:58 AM »
I guess it depends on if they turn coward.  Someone I know that served in Vietnam said that if a West Point gung ho guy started pushing them to do things that they deemed to dangerous or exposed them, often were killed by friendly fire.  He said they trusted their sargents more than their leutenants who had no real experience in the type warfare they were fighting.  If someone was openly gay and aggressively pushing it, he might be caught in friendly fire. 

It was called fragging. You have to understand that today's soldier is a different breed than that of Vietnam.  In Vietnam we had a ton of people drafted, many who either didn't want to be soliders, or should have never been trusted on the field in the first place (and those two groups aren't mutually exclusive - there is some overlap).  Hence the breakdown of nearly all values and civility of our military at the time. Rather than truly fighting a war, what we had was a ravel of people hooting and hollering, thinking with their limited scope of what was going on that they knew better what to do than the officers, and intentionally killing some officers who "got in the way" (not to mention committing some of the most embarrassing atrocities ever committed by US armed forces). 

The simple reality is that the foot soldiers, though their effort and dedication is appreciated, really DON'T know how to fight a war.  You can't from that vantage point.  They shoot and go where they're told, but that perspective doesn't afford them any special knowledge about what "needs to be done" on the battlefield.  That information is more high level, and is EXACTLY the type of thing officers and higher ups would know about.

In effect, I wouldn't point to Vietnam as a particularly good example of the way things are, and certainly not the way they need to be (no offense to any who served at that time - not saying that everyone at that time was doing bad stuff - just that it was pretty rampant - if you were doing what you needed to do then the criticism isn't directed towards you).  That conflict (war was never officially declared) single handedly proved why a draft is a bad idea.

Today's military is far more professional. The soldiers who are there by their choice, and in general our culture has simply improved from the Vietnam era.  Particularly in the age bracket that encompasses many soldiers, people really just don't care that much anymore whether a person is gay.  If you're not gay yourself, you have nothing to worry about.  Not to mention that the stereotypical effeminate flamboyant gay that so many seem to refer to is only a tiny minority of the overall population, and it specifically is a segment that probably wouldn't be interested in joining the military.  As a matter of fact, take a peak at "The Real World: Philidelphia" (Season 15).  Two of the participants in that season of the show were openly gay.  One, William, was the type you're referring to - completely effeminate, shopping, "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" type of personality.  The other, Karamo, was not.  The other characters didn't even know he was gay for quite a ways into the show, and he talked about several times in the show how he considered effeminate gays unattractive. 

Overall, the sky isn't going to fall.  What two consenting adults do isn't going to hurt you.  Heck I don't see why guys would be bothered by gay men in the first place.  Every time two of them hook up that's two potential competitors taken out of the dating game.  More ladies left to go around to the rest of us ;).

Offline ironglow

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Re: don't ask don't tell
« Reply #101 on: December 22, 2010, 11:41:46 AM »
Ok could someone clear up what advantage will homosexuals now have in the military ? I ask because maybe I missed something .

  Shootall;
    Whether they have any advantage or not is beside the point...I could care less..  It is what the normal people must put up with that bothers most of us.
  I am seeing a trend here which I noticed while serving..so I would like to make a prediction;    udging by the level of such acceptance I have seen before.
      Since it has been ordered bt the commander-in-chief  ;) :D ;D :P it will be put in effect. First to go will be Navy and Air Force...Not that the people in these branches will welcome such, but their leadership seems more inclined toward such acceptance  (IMO).
  (e.g. Adm Mullins)  Then the invasion will start with the rear eschelon stuff, farthest from the combat arms guys and work it's way toward the combat types, finally and last..infecting the elites..Special Forces, Rangers, SEALs, Marine Spec Ops etc.
   You seem to be open to such enforced social engineering, so out of curiosity I wonder what type military experience is yours.  I bemoan the fact that Politicians so much enjoy pushing their grandiose social engineering games upon our military !!

  Here is the link I neglected to post earlier;
   http://www.navytimes.com/news/2009/10/navy_pregnancy_101709w/

   Bless you TN..you are a man of much patience..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline beerbelly

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Re: don't ask don't tell
« Reply #102 on: December 22, 2010, 01:12:36 PM »
TeamNelson , if you stay in with the queers and are told not to preach that being queer is a sin, then you will a a hypocrite or worse. You either believe or you don't. I don't. But you say you do.
                                        Beerbelly

Offline powderman

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Re: don't ask don't tell
« Reply #103 on: December 22, 2010, 01:39:34 PM »
The military leaders need to stand tall and tell the obamination to stick it. POWDERMAN.  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline DANNY-L

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Re: don't ask don't tell
« Reply #104 on: December 22, 2010, 02:01:25 PM »
Could you picture pink shoe polish,and flies in the rear of thier uniform. ???

Offline SwampThing762

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Re: don't ask don't tell
« Reply #105 on: December 22, 2010, 03:07:21 PM »
I guess we can expect Klinger to be the next Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff, and neon pink and blue camouflage uniforms.

ST762
We learned the true nature of Islam on 11 Sept 2001.

Show your appreciation for Islam....eat more bacon.

"Non nobis Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam." (Not to us Lord, not us, but to your name give the glory)  -- Knights Templar motto

Offline powderman

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Re: don't ask don't tell
« Reply #106 on: December 22, 2010, 03:28:12 PM »
I guess we can expect Klinger to be the next Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff, and neon pink and blue camouflage uniforms.

ST762



HEH, This whole thread had me thinking about Klinger.  :D :DThe obamination, dims, other perverts, and pantywetters are sure proud of themselves right now. Just another nail in Americas coffin. POWDERMAN.  >:( >:(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline teamnelson

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Re: don't ask don't tell
« Reply #107 on: December 22, 2010, 09:30:10 PM »
TeamNelson , if you stay in with the queers and are told not to preach that being queer is a sin, then you will a a hypocrite or worse. You either believe or you don't. I don't. But you say you do.
                                        Beerbelly

Per Title 10, Chaplains are protected by law to preach, teach and counsel from within the dictates of their own religious tradition. DoD cannot dictate the content of anything I do while conducting religious services. If that is changed, there's not a single endorsing agency/faith group that will continue to provide chaplains. I don't belong lock stock and barrel to DOD. I am on loan to DOD as long as they uphold the law. Thats constitutionally the only way the DOD can employ clergy - if they dictate matters of faith then they are establishing a state religion (1st amendment). The ACLU will take that one on, not in my defense, but in defense of muslims, wiccans, et al. They'll defund chaplain services before they try to fight all the major religions in the us simultaneously in a class action.

As I've already stated, I'll be fired before I quit. But were not there yet. What the progay agenda hasn't figured out is we are back to the policies of the 80s, which was not gay friendly.
held fast

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: don't ask don't tell
« Reply #108 on: December 22, 2010, 11:55:36 PM »
 After thinking over what others have posted and also what is on the news this might be a first step in a plan. I ask will a homosexuals life mate ( I don't believe marriage is the correct term ) recieve benifits if one or both are in the military ? If so then then we the people by repensation would supporting homosexual activity not just staying out of the process . It would be saying the union is accepted and value given to it .
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Offline williamlayton

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Re: don't ask don't tell
« Reply #109 on: December 23, 2010, 01:42:57 AM »
Homosexuals have been with us forever.
It matters not what you think of them, their fate is sealed and God does not need our co-operation.
A homosexual may offend you--it offends me--but I am not responsible to them or for them.Why kill one? Real question---WHY KILL THEM, they are dead already.
Personally i am not afraid of being around one---I wish i could change them---NOT MY JOB.
Witness and let it go. They do not have ears to hear nor eyes to see.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: don't ask don't tell
« Reply #110 on: December 23, 2010, 01:45:45 AM »
Willian yes but I don't care to pay for them.
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Offline yellowtail3

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Re: don't ask don't tell
« Reply #111 on: December 23, 2010, 01:59:28 AM »
He said they trusted their sargents more than their leutenants who had no real experience in the type warfare they were fighting.  If someone was openly gay and aggressively pushing it, he might be caught in friendly fire.  

That wouldn't be friendly fire, that would be murder. I'm wondering... how many here approve of murder?
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: don't ask don't tell
« Reply #112 on: December 23, 2010, 02:13:43 AM »
good question yellowtail3 , for me it would depend on the situation . I once read a story written by a close friend of an African big game hunter guide who had worked for the British in WW2. He had been in a meeting with Hitler a short time before the war started. It was Hitler the guide and one other person. The guide has hid a gun on himself . He had remarked later in life if he had murdered Hitler the world would have been a different place. So like mose events one must face it depends .
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Offline MGMorden

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Re: don't ask don't tell
« Reply #113 on: December 23, 2010, 03:14:38 AM »
good question yellowtail3 , for me it would depend on the situation . I once read a story written by a close friend of an African big game hunter guide who had worked for the British in WW2. He had been in a meeting with Hitler a short time before the war started. It was Hitler the guide and one other person. The guide has hid a gun on himself . He had remarked later in life if he had murdered Hitler the world would have been a different place. So like mose events one must face it depends .

It's widely accepted that the allies had several opportunities to take out Hitler and chose not to.  Reasoning was simple: Hitler was an idiot.  Why take the risk of assassinating an incompetent leader and risk him being replaced with a competent military commander.

Just like after cracking Enigma they ignored several German attack plans and let them bomb some cities without cutting the Germans off because they didn't want to tip off to the Germans that they had cracked their codes.  That was a secret that needed to be saved for something far more important.  

As said earlier, some decisions which may seem incomprehensible to the foot soldier or person not looking at the big picture may be correct - it's just high level thinking.  As a good literary reference, check out the Dune series by Frank Herbert.  Excellent novels, but in these novels the main character of the first few books (Paul Atreides, aka Muad'Dib, aka Kwisatz Haderach) has the power of foresight - seeing the future.   To make a long story short, he becomes emperor and starts making choices that the entire empire thinks are fairly crazy, but he's always choosing what will lead to the best outcome in the long run.

BTW, that German Enigma code that was cracked, and was EXTREMELY CRITICAL to actually winning World War 2?   The main cryptographer working on it was Alan Turing - pretty much the father of modern computer science.  He was also gay.

Offline ironglow

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Re: don't ask don't tell
« Reply #114 on: December 23, 2010, 03:21:50 AM »
He said they trusted their sargents more than their leutenants who had no real experience in the type warfare they were fighting.  If someone was openly gay and aggressively pushing it, he might be caught in friendly fire.  

That wouldn't be friendly fire, that would be murder. I'm wondering... how many here approve of murder?

   Murdering them is totally unnecessary, as William said..they are murdering themselves spiritually. They have every opportunity to change (their lifestyle and their eternal home) and perhaps some will.
   He who has an ear, let him hear..
  When I hear the various mentions of an invention or process developed by a homosexual, I figure that by force of numbers normal people develop many more. So whether one is involved in a particular quirk, sin or perversion makes little difference, they could do as well...were they normal.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: don't ask don't tell
« Reply #115 on: December 23, 2010, 03:46:25 AM »
That wouldn't be friendly fire, that would be murder. I'm wondering... how many here approve of murder?

   Murdering them is totally unnecessary, as William said..they are murdering themselves spiritually.

Is murdering a person because of their sexual orientation ever... necessary? Seems to me such an act would simply be a crime, not a bit justifiable (certainly not by anyone claiming the name of Jesus).  Maybe the Westboro Phelps-ites would approve.
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: don't ask don't tell
« Reply #116 on: December 23, 2010, 04:16:05 AM »
That wouldn't be friendly fire, that would be murder. I'm wondering... how many here approve of murder?

   Murdering them is totally unnecessary, as William said..they are murdering themselves spiritually.

Is murdering a person because of their sexual orientation ever... necessary? Seems to me such an act would simply be a crime, not a bit justifiable (certainly not by anyone claiming the name of Jesus).  Maybe the Westboro Phelps-ites would approve.

If he were ornt toward children it might be .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline nomosendero

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Re: don't ask don't tell
« Reply #117 on: December 23, 2010, 04:28:31 AM »
He said they trusted their sargents more than their leutenants who had no real experience in the type warfare they were fighting.  If someone was openly gay and aggressively pushing it, he might be caught in friendly fire.  

That wouldn't be friendly fire, that would be murder. I'm wondering... how many here approve of murder?

Not me! Clearly, commiting a sin to wipe out a sinner doesn't make sense, almost like stealing a Bible.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline ironglow

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Re: don't ask don't tell
« Reply #118 on: December 23, 2010, 04:45:08 AM »
That wouldn't be friendly fire, that would be murder. I'm wondering... how many here approve of murder?

   Murdering them is totally unnecessary, as William said..they are murdering themselves spiritually.

Is murdering a person because of their sexual orientation ever... necessary? Seems to me such an act would simply be a crime, not a bit justifiable (certainly not by anyone claiming the name of Jesus).  Maybe the Westboro Phelps-ites would approve.

   But Yellowtail;
       You should not have quoted me when you spoke of murder..I advocated against such a thing ! ....But do you not agree, individuals deeply involved in this perversion and still denying that they sin, may be committing spiritual suicide ?
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline ironglow

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Re: don't ask don't tell
« Reply #119 on: December 23, 2010, 04:53:39 AM »
  TeamNelson;
  You are doing the correct thing ! If you left, there would be many decent troops left without the strong spiritual guidance which they will be needing more than ever..
   God Bless you Chaplin...don't "hide it under a bushel"..  and keep our troops away from "another gospel"...    Ironglow
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)