MostAccurate-Generally

[Strikenmike]

Greetings:
Would like to buy another NEF.  Primarily interested in developing a dedicated coyote gun.  I have a Ultra20 with a 223 barrel.  Shoots good (slug gun shoots wonderfully)  but at this time of the year I am always faced with the dilemma of changing the barrels back and forth, which I find to be worrisome.  In Illinois we now have 4 shotgun seasons, so this situation drags on until late January.  I do reload and I have the ability to "fine-tune" the gun, but I would prefer to start with a caliber that likes the NEF barrels, etc. right out of the box. 

Of the new-breed of NEF center-fires, which one(s) have the reputation of being the most accurate, out of the box?  Most of my coyote shots are inside of 200 yards.  If it makes it easier, which of the new guns should I definitely avoid?

I know we get a lot of "best caliber" questions, but this is a bit different and I would truly appreciate your input.  I need a good NEF/caliber match to begin with.

Thanks

[1NEFsofar]

I see a lot of people read your post but no one wants to start the battle....I'm up to starting a good natured fight!!!

I think for your application a .223 Ultra varmit with a fluted, bull barrel is the ticket. Mine was dead on accurate with minimal barrel break in (50-60 shots).  Sub MOA and enough juice for yotes inside of 200 yards. Since you already said that you have a 223, I don't know if you are set up already for reloading for thsi caliber or not. If so better yet!

Another option with a bit more omph would be the .308 with a bull barrel. Again very accurate.  Great gun.



Of course others will tell you to buy a couple and try them out and sell the ones that you don;t like to them .   Good luck no matter what you do.

Merry Christmas.

[petemi]

The easiest solution to me would be to sell the barrel here on the classifieds and buy a whole new rifle.  A new one would probably be an extractor 1 in 9 twist.

Pete

[cwlongshot]

While some could argue it's not a handi, my 17M2 is BY FAR the most accurate H&R I own. My 17HMR is no slouch either. Both would make for a fine close range yodledog buster. (125-150yards)

Hornets are usually very accurate and would add another 75 or so yards to the max range. The mentioned 223 will add another 100 to the Hornet. In those kind of ranges the appropriately loaded 243 or 25/06 also fits the bill. All of these have proven accurate and reliable chamberings.

When I specifically targeting yotes around here, my 17's the hornet or the 223 gets taken. By and large most of the yotes I have taken where with what ever I had in my hand. From a 380 pistol, my bow to my 454 cassul carbine just a couple weeks ago.

CW

[walkingwolf]

 A .243 and the .280 Will do about anything .

[PHATINJUN]

I'm in Illinois also so I know about the seasons here . You don't really have that much of a delemina. Your 223 is perfect for coyotes here and for the most part that is what I use the most. And if that is what you use your 223 for now stay with it if ya just want another caliber for yotes change but then your 223 just sits. What you really need is another frame. If you do not want to have to possible fit one that you could buy from the classifides. Take and buy either a new Ultra slug gun or buy a ultra 223 with the fluted bbl complete gun then sell what ever bbl you don't want to keep on the gun you have now to help off set the costs. Your cheapest route would be to buy a H&R shotgun and put the 20ga on that frame. Kurt

[Strikenmike]

My present 223 is shooting sub 1/2" groups at 100 yards using 69 grain Sierra HPBT Matchkings over 24.5 grains of Varget.  Really thumps them.  I think it would do quite well beyond 200 yards if needed.  It has taken quite a bit of range time to get to this point, but it shoots very well right now.  It is just swapping barrels during these deer seasons that is a problem.  If I can't get to a range to take a couple of shots, I am always worried about my accuracy.  This Fall when I put my 20gauge slug barrel back on, I never had to touch the scope....dead on (actually 2.5" high at 50 yards), with Lightfields. 

I do have a 25-06 that shoots real well also, but with all the snow, I am reluctant to take that gun into the field.  Oh well.

Keep your thoughts coming.  I do appreciate them.

[Strikenmike]

I kind of like PLATINJUN's idea of getting a new shotgun and putting my barrel on the new frame.  How is that done do you simply send it in to the factory as if you were buying an accessory barrel?  The idea of fitting a barrel to a frame is a little intimidating.

[Strikenmike]

Longshot, I do have a 17HMR that shoots extremely well.  Just never been sure it would make a humane kill on a big yote.  I have considered using it in deep-woods sets, where the action would be close, yet open enough for a rifle...perhaps some of my deer stands.

[cwlongshot]

The 17 work just fine!! I have shot them in the lungs, shoulders and head. The little bullets work very well.

Yet to do it with the lil 17, but see no reason why it wouldn't be just as good at slightly less distances.

CW

[RussB]

As was mentioned earlier, I don't want to turn this thread into a my gun is better than your gun, or my favorite caliber is always the best, or any of that kind of nonsense.
However, I will offer this.....over the years I have owned several NEF and H&R rifles, about 12 or 13 as best as I can count right now.
But one them was, and still is, head and shoulders above all the others,  right out of the box.
That one is a .280 that I bought about three years ago.
I have owned other .280's over the years and there is no comparison as far as accuracy.

It shoots right alongside any of my bolt guns, and it is not finicky about what you feed it.

That to me speaks volumes.

Russ

[PHATINJUN]

Mike Just go to your nearest gun shop or Walmart that still sells guns buy a Pardner Shotgun then it's just a matter of the swap chances that it fits fine are pretty good if not read your way thru the facts on bbl fitting and we will talk you thru it if you got that many guns and hand load if you can put kids toys togeather,or even change your own oil and battery you can fit a bbl to one of these guns. Or if you like the 20 slug hunter but don't like the weight get a Pardner ultralite Ultra light Slug Hunter kicks like a mule even in 20ga but is just as accurate as the USH's. Kurt

[telebasher]

Please don't make the mistake of shooting a fine game animal with a underpowered thick jacketed match bullet designed to punch paper not flesh and bone.  I have watched on tv an in real life guys who think their varmint blaster is the cats meow only to see the coyote spin round and round  and run off to die a slow death. By actual count, I have shot something close to 640 coyotes over the last 40 years. My personal minimum is a 53 gr hp @3600 fps at the muzzle.  Put in the vitals its lights out...DRT ! My favorite coyote medicine ir my 220 Swift...55 gr noslerBT  @ 3825 FPS  shoots like a laser and kills like a bolt of lightening.  Yes a 223 will kill a coyote but please use a bullet designed for the job at hand, they are very tenacious and deserve our best effort.

[Strikenmike]

Telebasher, I have been considering that.  To date my kills have been drop-dead clean.  I am working on a setup for a 55 grain spitzer that will hopefully become my goto round.

[petemi]

Like CW, I shoot coyotes with anything that's at hand.  I've gotten them with just about everything I own, from a .22 10/22 thru a .44 cap and ball revolver, muzzleloaders, shotguns, all my centerfire rifles.  When I HUNT them, the Handi .223 standard 22 inch takes the trip.  I did kill one with a through the shoulder shot with a .308 at over 300 yards, followed by a fox..same rifle...same shot...same place...next day.  That's with 168 gr Winchester Supremes off the back porch rail.

Pete

[Ron 1]

i am no expert but i would say the 223 is enough gun to do the job well with the right bullet (no fmj)
i have gotten them with my bow and arrow, 22 mag 40 gr, 20 ga. mossberg 6 shot, 22-250 45 gr/55gr and foot hold traps. it is were you hit them a standard  22 will kill a yote. the 22 will not offer a blood trail in most cases.
if you want to make sure it will not move again the 50 bmg is awesome but not fur friendly and might not be legal in your area. the 223 is a good round for yotes good luck with it.
     rw

[zoner]

i'll go against the grain here. You said most yote shots are 200 yds or less so how about a 30-30 loaded with a 125 gr varmint bullet for the yotes, and you could also use the rifle for deer hunting with a different load. The 30-30 handi is one of the more accurate handi rifles out there.....

[petemi]

Zoner, I've gotta agree with all you've said.  If you're not keeping pelts, ya don't need a tiny pellet going half a million fps.  My .30-30's and her super accurate sister 7.62x39 Handi would also do the trick.  Shooting both, I can't really tell a difference.  Their bullets tend to go where you point them.....both super accurate.  Also, I've never had a fail to fire with the 7.62x39, even with junk Russian MILSURP.  She's a shooter. 

Now, plinking a yote with a .45-70 running at two grand is another thing.  We usually bury them in two halves.

Pete

[ironglow]

  What CWlongshot says...I say that !
   My 17s are super accurate  (NEF & Savage) and credible for shorter range./ My Hornet and .223 are ideal for the other ranges.  the .243s, 280s, .308s & 30/30s are fine if you're not saving the hides.
  I recomend the .223, and if you are not reloading, Tim says the Winchester white box 45 gr JHP is the "gold standard" for NEF rifles..I agree.

[Strikenmike]

Zoner I am intrigued by your post.  What would be a good handload for the 30-30 set up for coyotes?

[zoner]

the Hodgdon site has data with a 130 gr bullet with several powders that'll do 2500 fps or so

[quickdtoo]

125gr Nosler Ballistic tips have a great following in the 30-30 Handi for deer, they should work for song doggies just as well, they shoot excellent in one of my 30-30s, haven't shot them in the other yet.

Tim

http://www.noslerreloading.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1347

Impact Velocities for Reliable Expansion

Partition:
Minimum Impact Velocity for Reliable Expansion- 1800 fps
Maximum Impact Velocity for Reliable Expansion- N/A


Ballistic Tip:
Minimum Impact Velocity for Reliable Expansion- 1600 fps
Maximum Impact Velocity for Reliable Expansion- 3000 fps


AccuBond:
Minimum Impact Velocity for Reliable Expansion- 1800 fps
Maximum Impact Velocity for Reliable Expansion- N/A

[petemi]

I've never tried a light pill in a .30-30.  Generally, off the shelf ammo is either 150 or 170 gr.  Now that I reload, I'm gonna try it.

Pete

[quickdtoo]

Pete,

The Nosler 6th pistol data shows 125gr NBT data in a 14" TC barrel, they use the same data for H4895 that I use, the max load in the short barrel pushes it to 2349fps, well within the NBT velocity range for good terminal effect. 

Tim

Trajectory for Nosler .308 dia. 125 gr. Ballistic Tip at 2350 Feet per Second
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.366   0.366   0.366   0.366   0.366
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 2350  2350   2350   2350
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0   Cross Range: 0.0   Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 0 Feet   Humidity: 70 Percent   Pressure: 29.53 in/Hg
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range   Velocity   Energy   Momentum   Drop   Bullet Path   Wind Drift   Time of Flight
(Yards)   (Ft/Sec)   (Ft/Lbs)   (Lb-Sec)   (inches)   (inches)   (inches)   (Seconds)
0   2350.0   1532.6   1.30   -0.18   0.4   23430.58   0.000000000
50   2236.9   1388.6   1.24   -0.81   1.67   0.0   0.065424416
100   2126.8   1255.2   1.18   -3.36   3.11   0.0   0.134196548
150   2019.9   1132.2   1.12   -7.84   2.62   0.0   0.206569822
200   1916.2   1019.0   1.06   -14.44   0.0   0.0   0.282817148
250   1816.0   915.2   1.01   -23.42   -4.99   0.0   0.363232190
300   1719.5   820.5   0.95   -35.03   -12.61   0.0   0.448125120


Trajectory for Nosler .308 dia. 125 gr. Ballistic Tip at 2450 Feet per Second
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.366   0.366   0.366   0.366   0.366
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 2450   2450   2450   2450
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0   Cross Range: 0.0   Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 0 Feet   Humidity: 70 Percent   Pressure: 29.53 in/Hg
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range   Velocity   Energy   Momentum   Drop   Bullet Path   Wind Drift   Time of Flight
(Yards)   (Ft/Sec)   (Ft/Lbs)   (Lb-Sec)   (inches)   (inches)   (inches)   (Seconds)
0   2450.0   1665.8   1.36   -0.18   0.24   23430.58   0.000000000
50   2334.2   1512.0   1.30   -0.75   1.44   0.0   0.062726039
100   2221.5   1369.5   1.23   -3.09   2.79   0.0   0.128599016
150   2111.8   1237.6   1.17   -7.2   2.37   0.0   0.197853590
200   2005.3   1116.0   1.11   -13.25   0.0   0.0   0.270745900
250   1902.1   1004.1   1.06   -21.47   -4.53   0.0   0.347551714
300   1802.4   901.5   1.00   -32.09   -11.46   0.0   0.428567442

[ironglow]

  Zoner, Tim;
   Not disagreeing, but wonder how the rounds work if the hides are to be saved. Obviously, if not saving the hides, the 30/30 could be a fine doggie-doer..

[Strikenmike]

Zoner and Tim, I am not concerned about pelts.  I just wanted some input on which centerfire calibers that would be suitable for coyote hunting, seemed to shoot the best (out-of-the-box) in NEF guns.  So far my impression is 223, 25-06 and 30-30.

[quickdtoo]

I'd stick with a 223 myself using your 200yd range expectation if you don't want to use it for anything else since you did state it would be dedicated for coyotes.

Tim

[Strikenmike]

Since I am set up to reload 223 and 25-06 that is probably how I will go.  To me the 25-06 is almost too much gun.  I hunt pretty close to developed areas and the noise can be an issue.  Plus that 223 is a pleasure to shoot. I think if I could either buy another 20 gauge slug gun, or find a receiver for my barrel then use my current gun as a dedicated 223 coyote gun, that would be the best solution.  Now if I can just find away to make it happen.  I want to thank everyone for you input.

[zoner]

I'm not tryin to stir the pot here. You said 200 yds or less and wanted most accurate. For me the 30-30 has been the most accurate out of the box Handi yet, the pressure level fits the Handi action well, it's rimmed so ejection/extraction works good,and Tim's data says velocity and trajectory will work for what your tryin to do. Then throw in the part about how you can use a 150 or 170 gr bullet to kill deer it looks like a pretty good deal. I did not take into account that some guys want the pelts....i'm happy if there are just fewer yotes period

[petemi]

I have a really nice, large and plush coyote pelt that hangs in my guest room.  I don't need any more.  I'm on the "Just getem dead" bandwagon.  I lost a fine, beautiful, loving beagle pup to coyotes a lot of years ago, and ever since, all I want to do is kill them.....with whatever gun is gonna work at the moment.  I really like the .45-70 because it destroys them.

Pete