Author Topic: should more bolt guns have DBMs?  (Read 1772 times)

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Offline john keyes

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should more bolt guns have DBMs?
« on: December 21, 2010, 01:29:11 PM »
I do for sure.  I have a rem mountain in 280 and would gladly trade it for one with the detachable box magazine.  I had two savage 99s and liked the one with the DBM better than the one with the rotary even though people make a big deal out of it. 

I don't know who sold John Q. Public on the hinged floorplate.  what good is that?  the only time I use it is on my 700s when the second round into the magazine gets wopperjawed and I have to dump the whole lot and start over.    Now that I think about it, I guess dumping the magazine with the hinged floor plate is safer than chambering/ejecting each round to empty the rifle.  I still cycle all of em at the end of a hunt go get em out and dry fire before putting the gun in the safe.
Now I do admit you are SOL with a DBM if you lose it.  especially with a vulnerable release like the 788.

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Offline chutesnreloads

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Re: should more bolt guns have DBMs?
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2010, 02:00:33 PM »
Maybe just me but I prefer a blind magazine.

Offline charles p

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Re: should more bolt guns have DBMs?
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2010, 02:34:56 PM »
I have a Browning BBL with a detachable magazine and to tell the truth, in 30 years I have never needed to detach it, or pull an empty and put in a full mag.  Same can be said for a Rem 742 I bought in 1967.  I once had a spare mag for it.  Must have lost it somewhere.  I suppose it is possible to loose a detachable mag, or forget where it is.

I like the BDL type that drops the cartridges out the bottom.  I have several of these.  I have an ADL and a LVSF with blind mags and sometimes I get cases "bound" in them and it is hard to quickly correct my problem.  Usually happens when loading in the dark.  OK for varmint rifles but not the best for big game rifles.  Just my opinion.

My Win 70s are open to the bottom and my Weatherby is also.  I like to drop my cases out into my hand at the end of the day and put a completely empty rifle in the truck.  With the blind mag rifles I often unload the chamber and leave four cases in the magazine.  One year I pulled a rifle from the closet to discover it had a loaded mag.  No problem, because I always check first to make certain a rifle is unloaded, but the surprse reminded me of why I left four cases in the mag.

Offline woodyed

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Re: should more bolt guns have DBMs?
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2010, 02:49:55 PM »
Your semi-auto and pump shotguns have blind magazines and you have to cycle the action to unload them also, so why the big deal with rifles that have blind mags. Is it more inconvenient with a rifle than a shotgun? With a blind magazine in a rifle you not only reduce manufacturing costs but also cut down on weight, plus you don't have to worry about losing your magazine or the floorplate accidentally opening and spilling out your ammo.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: should more bolt guns have DBMs?
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2010, 05:29:52 PM »
Not if they want to sell them to me they best not put a DBM on it. I'll not have one.

Now if you decide you want to let go of that .280 Mountain Rifle keep me in mind.


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Offline mrloring

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Re: should more bolt guns have DBMs?
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2010, 06:01:22 PM »
Now I do admit you are SOL with a DBM if you lose it.  especially with a vulnerable release like the 788.

I hunt with a 788 in 308 Win and lost my magazine about 4 years ago.  That was after Remington quit making magazines and before anybody was making aftermarket magazines.  It took a while but I ended up finding a 7mm-08 magazine and have been using it since. 


Offline Doug B.

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Re: should more bolt guns have DBMs?
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2010, 12:21:45 AM »
I have a Remington .243 in a BDL. I must say that it appears as though my action is a lot smoother than Rems with DBM's. An additional plus for me. I know it's off topic, but, my Savage '99 in .300 has a blind mag and it sure makes for a firearm with nice lines. Another fine feature of this "outdated" rifle :D is that you do not have to fully close the action when cycling rounds to unload. Nice!
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Offline hunt-m-up

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Re: should more bolt guns have DBMs?
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2010, 01:35:52 AM »
I've haven't lost or "misplaced" a hinged floorplate yet...
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: should more bolt guns have DBMs?
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2010, 02:00:52 AM »
Why do you cycle each round and subject it that abuse ? Better to drop them and keep them in better shape. Why dry fire ? You do know that if you pull the trigger while closing the bolt it is easier on the gun in general as it lets the fireing pin go to the fired position as its lowered .

As far as a DBM no thanks one more complex device to screw up or fall out or get misplaced in the off season. Don't ask how I know these things  :D
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Offline HogFan

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Re: should more bolt guns have DBMs?
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2010, 04:54:21 AM »
I have a 700 BDL w/DBM. I have never had the problem of losing the magazine either. I take it to load and unload it, and it goes right back in the rifle. I prefer a DBM, but that's just me.

Offline drdougrx

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Re: should more bolt guns have DBMs?
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2010, 05:06:54 AM »
I'd rather have a blind mag or a floor plate.  I have a SAKO 85 with a DBM. Since I can top load it while it's still is in the gun...I never take it out and that's fine with me.  I'd actually rather carry cartridges in a flat belt carrier than a bulky mag in a pocket or a pack...that's just me...
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Offline Buckskin

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Re: should more bolt guns have DBMs?
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2010, 08:01:05 AM »
Well there you have it, your unscientific poll show that over 90% of gun owners prefer blind mags to detachables, myself included.   I guess the gun manufacturers made the right choice.
The only time I would prefer it is with weapons that hold more than 5 rounds. 22's for instance, I hate tube mags on them so all of my 22's have a mag of some sort.  Unfortunately they all use different mags...  And it would be a bugger to push feed 30 rounds of 223 into my AR. ;D
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: should more bolt guns have DBMs?
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2010, 08:26:19 AM »
I have a 700 BDL w/DBM. I have never had the problem of losing the magazine either. I take it to load and unload it, and it goes right back in the rifle. I prefer a DBM, but that's just me.

Not the one in the gun the extra one you have to have cause the gun has them  ;D which is mostlikely why they make them that way to start with
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Offline Catfish

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Re: should more bolt guns have DBMs?
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2010, 08:32:42 AM »
The arms makers makes what sells. There are both types on the market and the people vote with their money. Personaly I`ll buy eather if the price is right.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: should more bolt guns have DBMs?
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2010, 08:36:30 AM »
The arms makers makes what sells. There are both types on the market and the people vote with their money. Personaly I`ll buy eather if the price is right.

They make some that don't sell also.
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Offline no guns here

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Re: should more bolt guns have DBMs?
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2010, 09:17:47 AM »
 I much prefer DBM's.  Next is the hinged floorplate.  Last by a long shot is a blind magazine.  Yes, I have to cycle the shotguns to get the rounds out.  However, that is because I can't get a sporting shotgun with a DBM.  A 12 ga DBM would be monstrous and totally destroy the aesthetics and handling of a shotgun.  One of my biggest gripes is not finding rifles with DBM's.


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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: should more bolt guns have DBMs?
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2010, 09:37:08 AM »
I much prefer DBM's.  Next is the hinged floorplate.  Last by a long shot is a blind magazine.  Yes, I have to cycle the shotguns to get the rounds out.  However, that is because I can't get a sporting shotgun with a DBM.  A 12 ga DBM would be monstrous and totally destroy the aesthetics and handling of a shotgun.  One of my biggest gripes is not finding rifles with DBM's.


NGH
The new Savage bolt gun in 20 ga. has one . And I have to admit it would be an improvement over the 12 ga
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Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: should more bolt guns have DBMs?
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2010, 04:08:22 PM »
Strong preference for a floor plate in a hunting rifle.
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Offline Cheesehead

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Re: should more bolt guns have DBMs?
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2010, 04:09:56 PM »
The Browning Xbolt has a nice DBM.

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Offline Brithunter

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Re: should more bolt guns have DBMs?
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2010, 10:27:14 PM »
Hmmm only last year I acquired a Parker-Hale 1200C which has a drop mag and it came with a spare and it's handy at times however I have never really noticed any problems witht he other magazines. Most of my BSA's have a drop floor plate with the latch in the front of the trigger guard and the other Parker-Hales have the same arrangement. Next is the pure Mauser type which requires a bullet point or something similar to drop the floor plate and they have not caused me problems either. I use what the rifle is fitted with and get one with shooting or hunting.

I brought the 1200C firstly because the muzzle had been screw cut for a sound moderator not because it had a drop mag that was a bonus as I didn't have one of these for the collection.

Offline john keyes

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Re: should more bolt guns have DBMs?
« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2010, 03:58:37 AM »
I brought the 1200C firstly because the muzzle had been screw cut for a sound moderator not because it had a drop mag that was a bonus as I didn't have one of these for the collection.

further evidence to confirm my suspicion that you really are Patrick McGoohan.....
Though taken from established manufacturers' sources and presumed to be safe please do not use any load that I have posted. Please reference Hogdon, Lyman, Speer and others as a source of data for your own use.

Offline diggler1833

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Re: should more bolt guns have DBMs?
« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2010, 07:59:36 AM »
In a tactical rifle I think that they are the cat's a$$.  In a hunting or target rifle I don't really need one.

Offline Brithunter

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Re: should more bolt guns have DBMs?
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2010, 08:26:58 AM »
I brought the 1200C firstly because the muzzle had been screw cut for a sound moderator not because it had a drop mag that was a bonus as I didn't have one of these for the collection.

further evidence to confirm my suspicion that you really are Patrick McGoohan.....

Hmmmm now you have lost me who?  and is that suppose to be an insult?

  The use of sound moderators (silencers) is quite normal here for several reasons not least Health and Safety in saving hearing and noise pollution. I had avoided getting one until 2009 but more estates it seems are stipulating their use on health and safety grounds so I got one. As I didn't want to have one of my existing rifles threaded I got a variation and brought one that had already been done:-

So now I had two rifles that could utilise the sound moderator. On my


The one I brought is modular


and of the reflex ( back over barrel) type so it does not extend too far from the muzzle.

After a time I decided to alter a sporterised Swedish mauser to also use the sound moderator so i removed the foresight and cut the 1/2" UNF thread required so it can be used on this one. This meant acquiring a second delrin support bush to suit the different barrel profile on the Mauser:-



The next thing is to get a new sound moderator of the Muzzle can type to use on the new project .280AI as whilst the barrel was in the lathe I also put a 1/2! UNF thread on the muzzle and I intend to also make a muzzle brake that can be used on the .280 should I wish to upset the others on the line at the range  ;D

Oh yes sound moderators on .22 rimfires have been comone use for decades for vermin control using sub sonic ammunition and I have had one for quite  few years. There is also no season for rabbits here nor any bag limits.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: should more bolt guns have DBMs?
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2010, 09:00:13 AM »
The worst to use DM was on the BAR , hinged floor plate with a DM attached to almost eliminate a quick change but its not a bolt gun .
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Offline Guy Pike

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Re: should more bolt guns have DBMs?
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2010, 02:48:13 PM »
Blondes, brunettes and redheads. Tried several of each and have concluded that attitude is everything! Brithunter: your pictures confirm my hypothesis that the British can muck up any good looking thing! Merry Christmas to all!
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Offline Brithunter

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Re: should more bolt guns have DBMs?
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2010, 11:53:54 PM »
Blondes, brunettes and redheads. Tried several of each and have concluded that attitude is everything! Brithunter: your pictures confirm my hypothesis that the British can muck up any good looking thing! Merry Christmas to all!

Ahhh I see just another Anti British yank  ::)

Please notice that the sound moderator is removable, this is required for cleaning and also storage as if you leave them on they rot the barrel   :o, not a legal requirement for storage I might add  ;). For fox control mainly done at night with a lamp the sound moderator means:-

1) one does not upset the neighbours and the anti brigade.

2) one does not disturb the ground too much so more foxes are shot in one night off a piece of ground than could be achieved when not using a moderator.

3) when used for deer culling again less disturbance of the ground means less stress for the deer and more can be shot in the same area  ;D. Oh yes Deer stalking takes place all year except on Christmas day. With Six species to hunt at least one species/sex is in season at any one time. Does are part of the annual cull and it does not make one less of a man for shooting a Doe depsite what the old fellers Like Whelen would have us believe.

4) no tax stamp to pay just a normal variation as yes they are licenceable but that's it. Owning a sound moderator does not make one a "Sniper" or Assasin  ;).

5) a benefit is that with most normal cartridges one can actually see the bullet strike on target or beast and of course one does not need to wear hearing protection and ones hearing is not at risk from not wearing hearing protection.

There are those in America who would love to able to use Sound Moderators for one or more of the reasons mentioned above but find the federal mentality surrounding sound moderators oppressive and even suspicious to say the least let alone darned expensive with the federal transfer tax.

The drawbacks of the sound mods are the weight which yes it does unbalance the rifle and carrying a rifle with one fitted slung on the should needs some extra thought. The Biathlon sling is a good idea to stop the muzzle slipping back and pointing behind instead of up if you carry muzzle up. If carried muzzle down then care is needed to make sure the extra length does not mean it's hit upon the ground. A lot have their barrels shortened to help with this. My 25-06 has 24" barrel the 6.5x55 has a 22" barrel. The .280 AI when finished will have a 23" barrel. One reason I adpted the 6.5x55 is that the P-H 1200C in 25-06 is darned heavy. That wood stock is dense and without the mod fitted the rifle weighs over 9lbs with mod and bi-pod it goes nearer 12lbs. The .280 AI will weigh scoped with sling less that 8lbs.

As for British syle well the 6.5x55 has an American stock and really needs thinning at the wrist due to being a bit club like the same can be said of the Centurion sporter from Century Arms it too has a horrid stock profile but nothing a spoke shave and rasp cannot sort out  ;D of course old Col Whelen would not approve as the fore stock is not round and full enough or club like for his tastes. Don't get it wrong I admire the man just don't agree with all his ideas  ;) I would have loved to have met him.