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Offline Spanky

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Your thoughts on "Yankees"
« on: December 21, 2010, 05:12:27 PM »
I was born and raised here in upstate NY so I guess that makes me a "yankee"   My question is.... after 150 years why is it still that way? I read this forum all the time because I like to learn the "both sides" of the story as to why the War happened, the cause and effects of it, the animosity between northerners and southerners, etc.
Alot of the posts I read have a slightly negative tone towards us "yankees" for one reason or another. The truth is that there's not one of us here that can or will change the past... it's just that simple. I don't have any bad feelings or thoughts towards any southerner. My better half is from Knoxville Tennessee and she's the greatest thing in my life. Some of my best friends in the military are from the south and I'd stand side by side with any of them to the end.
So I ask... why do some of you still choose to think or speak poorly or negatively about us from the north?





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Offline Ga.windbreak

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Re: Your thoughts on "Yankees"
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2010, 08:34:19 PM »
Welcome Spanky, we are glad you have joined our little group. We love any who want to learn and seek the truth. I think, but can not speak for my brothers, it was bound to happen sooner or later and the man in the North felt just as strongly his loyalty to his State as the Southerner felt for his State.

We were a federation of the several states versus a "United" States as today. We were also "Free" men in 1860 yet in 1866 we were chattels to the Federal government in DC and then in 1913 we became slaves to the Central Banking system known as "The Fed" and remain so today.

So yes, if there were to be war between us it would have been better that the South had won! It didn't, and add the real fact that reconstruction by those radicals in Congress who were eager to grind their fellow Southern citizens into the mud lay a much harder and more profound yoke on our backs that has never truly been removed by some. History shows that it took over 100 years for the Southern States to regain the level of wealth it had in 1860.

So yes, there is much bitterness here, my friend. You add to that the present Government's demand for more taxation under the guise of Health Care and it only drives those of us who love our Constitution and the way of our lost freedom and you have where we are today.

Welcome!
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Offline SouthernByGrace

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Re: Your thoughts on "Yankees"
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2010, 08:35:13 PM »
Hey Spanky. Thanks for your post. Remember, you asked...  ;)
  
   If you go back and look, most of the negative talk about Yankees refers to Northerners living during the times leading up to, during, and after the War. As with anything, there are always exceptions. As for me, if or when I mention Yankees, or Northerners, I try to keep it strictly from a cultural standpoint. Culture played a large part in the differences between North & South back then, as well as today. That's not derogatory, just a fact. There have been dozens of people who have posted their stories on this forum who are either Northern, or who have lived up North for extended periods, who tell of how Southern whites work very closely and side by side with blacks, even to this day, while witnessing for themselves that things are much different up North. Almost all who have made such posts here have said that blacks and whites working closely together up North is almost nonexistent.
   I have spoken to many elderly blacks here in Georgia who were born in the South, and moved up North, only to return to the South in retirement. ALL of them say that, even during the racial tensions in the South during the late 1950's and 1960's, they were actually treated much harsher by Northerners. They will also tell you in a heartbeat that about 98% of the racial tension back then was caused by Northern blacks and whites who had a preconceived idea about Southern culture, i.e., coming down here and creating those problems. This is coming from the people who have lived it, and have seen it first hand.
   From a historical standpoint, most Northerners today have no idea that slavery existed up North, at the same time it did here in the South, i.e., DURING THE CIVIL WAR!! And when you tell them or try to show them proof, they don't want to believe it, because the history books have assigned virtue to the North, and vice to the South. Most Northerners don't know that the top 5 generals in the Confederacy DID NOT own slaves, but General Ulysses S. Grant (USA) actually owned FIVE slaves DURING the War!! The busiest slave market in North America during the War was in Washington, D.C., less than 400 yards from the White House! Washington, D.C. is in the NORTH!!
   Most Northerners have no idea that the Emancipation Proclamation actually EXCLUDED Northern slaves from freedom. It actually spells out the areas where those slaves were to remain slaves "as if this proclamation were never issued."
   And probably one of the biggest reasons for the antagonistic tone toward Northerners is the fact that the Southern States were literally invaded by the Northern army and that this action was forbidden by the U.S. Constitution. The South legally seceded from the Union, as taught at West Point Military Academy (New York) from 1737 until 1868, as being a legal right of any people to throw off any government they felt was infringing upon its rights. (The book this was taught from is still in the library at West Point to this day.)
   Ask any Northerner today why the Civil War was fought, and 100% of them will tell you it was fought to free the slaves. Well, if it was, why didn't it free Northern slaves, too? Southern slavery ended in 1865, while it remained in the North until 1868. The state of Rhode Island, whose legal name is The State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, is actually trying to remove the "and Providence Plantations" from their official name because they want to wipe out any notion that slavery existed up North!! It happened people!! Admit it and you'll be better off for seeing the truth!! People up North have preconceived ideas about Southerners because the history books teach that the South was evil for having slavery. Sooo, the North was not? Every facet of Southern culture has been slowly eroded out of existence by the North. Do you realize that to this day it is actually ILLEGAL for any Southern State to produce its OWN history book? It is also ILLEGAL for any Southern State to create its own standardized tests for public schools. Most use the ITBS test (Iowa). Why should a state in the South have to conform to the standards of the state of Iowa? Have you ever wondered just WHY South Carolina is the poorest state in this country? Do you realize that in 1860 (according to the 1860 Census), Georgia had the world's THIRD Largest Gross Domestic Product, and because of the North's invasion of the South, and Sherman's destruction of Georgia, that Georgia's economy didn't return to prewar levels until 1968? That means that through Northern oppression (Reconstruction and pillaging of the state), it took 108 YEARS for Georgia's economy to get back to square one!!! And that's just ONE state!! Some countries don't even last that long!!
   Spanky, I could go on and on with examples like these. My co-moderator and I, along with most of the regulars have page after page of proof of what I'm saying here. That proof is in the form of actual official documents, letters, newspaper articles, etc., from that period. The Official Record of the War of the Rebellion, the official record of the War, as compiled by the Federal Government from BOTH sides, is another source we use quite often.
   Believe me, there is no hate involved in our discussions in this forum. There is, however, lots of frustration in trying to get Northerners to see the TRUTH of what actually happened, and why it happened, and that Southerners are still scorned and ridiculed to this day for a lot of things that Northerners (and sadly, most young Southerners now) have no earthly idea about in reality. We just want you guys to look at it from our viewpoint, as it was documented, as it happened, and not how the Government wants you to see it. We believe with every fiber of our being that the South was Right in its actions, and that those actions (secession) were carried out to the letter of the law (through their respective state legislatures), and that History has wrongfully portrayed the South, and Southerners, as being evil, as trying to destroy the United States, as being in the wrong in every aspect of the War, while portraying the North as some virtuous, glorious, spotless, freedom-loving demigod, when in reality, they were just as guilty (if not more so) of the very things they still chastise the South for to this day.
   I hope this begins to help you understand that, even after 150 years, NO, we will Not just "let it go," as we so often hear from our friends from across the Mason-Dixon Line. This was done to US. In OUR homes, in OUR fields, to OUR businesses, to OUR thriving economy, to OUR families. Have you ever wondered why ALL but one major battle of the War (Gettysburg) was fought in the South?
Oh, how I would love to talk to you in person or on the phone...  ;)

 
SouthernByGrace

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"Let us cross over the river and rest under the shade of the trees..."
Final words spoken by Gen. Thomas J. (Stonewall) Jackson, CSA

Offline Ron 1

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Re: Your thoughts on "Yankees"
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2010, 03:21:02 AM »
 ;D ;D ;D i tried i moved to douglas georgia  from south haven michigan  14 years ago so i could hunt them wild pigs (got 1)   then i fell in love and got married and had a son (now 12)  i was referred to as the damn yankee by her family ;D ;D we moved north and then south many times
rw 
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Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Your thoughts on "Yankees"
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2010, 04:37:54 AM »
even though I've been in the south for 41 years, I still have people talk ugly about me.  so, I will tell you how it really is.  we all have yankee blood in us because the yankee army did what all occupying armies have done since time began. when they pulled their troops out, they left behind a bunch of half-yankee babies.
 ;D
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Offline Spanky

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Re: Your thoughts on "Yankees"
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2010, 08:49:18 AM »
Welcome Spanky, we are glad you have joined our little group. We love any who want to learn and seek the truth. I think, but can not speak for my brothers, it was bound to happen sooner or later and the man in the North felt just as strongly his loyalty to his State as the Southerner felt for his State.

We were a federation of the several states versus a "United" States as today. We were also "Free" men in 1860 yet in 1866 we were chattels to the Federal government in DC and then in 1913 we became slaves to the Central Banking system known as "The Fed" and remain so today.

So yes, if there were to be war between us it would have been better that the South had won! It didn't, and add the real fact that reconstruction by those radicals in Congress who were eager to grind their fellow Southern citizens into the mud lay a much harder and more profound yoke on our backs that has never truly been removed by some. History shows that it took over 100 years for the Southern States to regain the level of wealth it had in 1860.

So yes, there is much bitterness here, my friend. You add to that the present Government's demand for more taxation under the guise of Health Care and it only drives those of us who love our Constitution and the way of our lost freedom and you have where we are today.

Welcome!
Hey Spanky. Thanks for your post. Remember, you asked...  ;)
   
   If you go back and look, most of the negative talk about Yankees refers to Northerners living during the times leading up to, during, and after the War. As with anything, there are always exceptions. As for me, if or when I mention Yankees, or Northerners, I try to keep it strictly from a cultural standpoint. Culture played a large part in the differences between North & South back then, as well as today. That's not derogatory, just a fact. There have been dozens of people who have posted their stories on this forum who are either Northern, or who have lived up North for extended periods, who tell of how Southern whites work very closely and side by side with blacks, even to this day, while witnessing for themselves that things are much different up North. Almost all who have made such posts here have said that blacks and whites working closely together up North is almost nonexistent.
   I have spoken to many elderly blacks here in Georgia who were born in the South, and moved up North, only to return to the South in retirement. ALL of them say that, even during the racial tensions in the South during the late 1950's and 1960's, they were actually treated much harsher by Northerners. They will also tell you in a heartbeat that about 98% of the racial tension back then was caused by Northern blacks and whites who had a preconceived idea about Southern culture, i.e., coming down here and creating those problems. This is coming from the people who have lived it, and have seen it first hand.
   From a historical standpoint, most Northerners today have no idea that slavery existed up North, at the same time it did here in the South, i.e., DURING THE CIVIL WAR!! And when you tell them or try to show them proof, they don't want to believe it, because the history books have assigned virtue to the North, and vice to the South. Most Northerners don't know that the top 5 generals in the Confederacy DID NOT own slaves, but General Ulysses S. Grant (USA) actually owned FIVE slaves DURING the War!! The busiest slave market in North America during the War was in Washington, D.C., less than 400 yards from the White House! Washington, D.C. is in the NORTH!!
   Most Northerners have no idea that the Emancipation Proclamation actually EXCLUDED Northern slaves from freedom. It actually spells out the areas where those slaves were to remain slaves "as if this proclamation were never issued."
   And probably one of the biggest reasons for the antagonistic tone toward Northerners is the fact that the Southern States were literally invaded by the Northern army and that this action was forbidden by the U.S. Constitution. The South legally seceded from the Union, as taught at West Point Military Academy (New York) from 1737 until 1868, as being a legal right of any people to throw off any government they felt was infringing upon its rights. (The book this was taught from is still in the library at West Point to this day.)
   Ask any Northerner today why the Civil War was fought, and 100% of them will tell you it was fought to free the slaves. Well, if it was, why didn't it free Northern slaves, too? Southern slavery ended in 1865, while it remained in the North until 1868. The state of Rhode Island, whose legal name is The State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, is actually trying to remove the "and Providence Plantations" from their official name because they want to wipe out any notion that slavery existed up North!! It happened people!! Admit it and you'll be better off for seeing the truth!! People up North have preconceived ideas about Southerners because the history books teach that the South was evil for having slavery. Sooo, the North was not? Every facet of Southern culture has been slowly eroded out of existence by the North. Do you realize that to this day it is actually ILLEGAL for any Southern State to produce its OWN history book? It is also ILLEGAL for any Southern State to create its own standardized tests for public schools. Most use the ITBS test (Iowa). Why should a state in the South have to conform to the standards of the state of Iowa? Have you ever wondered just WHY South Carolina is the poorest state in this country? Do you realize that in 1860 (according to the 1860 Census), Georgia had the world's THIRD Largest Gross Domestic Product, and because of the North's invasion of the South, and Sherman's destruction of Georgia, that Georgia's economy didn't return to prewar levels until 1968? That means that through Northern oppression (Reconstruction and pillaging of the state), it took 108 YEARS for Georgia's economy to get back to square one!!! And that's just ONE state!! Some countries don't even last that long!!
   Spanky, I could go on and on with examples like these. My co-moderator and I, along with most of the regulars have page after page of proof of what I'm saying here. That proof is in the form of actual official documents, letters, newspaper articles, etc., from that period. The Official Record of the War of the Rebellion, the official record of the War, as compiled by the Federal Government from BOTH sides, is another source we use quite often.
   Believe me, there is no hate involved in our discussions in this forum. There is, however, lots of frustration in trying to get Northerners to see the TRUTH of what actually happened, and why it happened, and that Southerners are still scorned and ridiculed to this day for a lot of things that Northerners (and sadly, most young Southerners now) have no earthly idea about in reality. We just want you guys to look at it from our viewpoint, as it was documented, as it happened, and not how the Government wants you to see it. We believe with every fiber of our being that the South was Right in its actions, and that those actions (secession) were carried out to the letter of the law (through their respective state legislatures), and that History has wrongfully portrayed the South, and Southerners, as being evil, as trying to destroy the United States, as being in the wrong in every aspect of the War, while portraying the North as some virtuous, glorious, spotless, freedom-loving demigod, when in reality, they were just as guilty (if not more so) of the very things they still chastise the South for to this day.
   I hope this begins to help you understand that, even after 150 years, NO, we will Not just "let it go," as we so often hear from our friends from across the Mason-Dixon Line. This was done to US. In OUR homes, in OUR fields, to OUR businesses, to OUR thriving economy, to OUR families. Have you ever wondered why ALL but one major battle of the War (Gettysburg) was fought in the South?
Oh, how I would love to talk to you in person or on the phone...  ;)

 
SouthernByGrace

DEO VINDICE
   


Thanks for these posts guys... this is what I like. For me it's about learning and I'm a history buff by nature. I know the War wasn't fought over slavery and I know northerners had slaves too... even Lincoln himself. Alot of northerners won't believe it but it's true.
Thanks again for the great posts guys... I appreciate it.



Spanky

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Your thoughts on "Yankees"
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2010, 09:27:46 AM »
Depends on what type yankee you are . If you are a liberal yankee don't expect respect . If you are a damn yankee it could go either way , Down here we don't give a dam- how ya'll did it up there so if ya move here and don't always tell us how you did it up there then we call you that out of affection on the other hand if ya keep telling us how ya did it up there we mean it out of anger ;D . Then there are the snow birds from up north most just pass thru unless you are in Fl. Then at times there are more yankees in Fl than Southerners  :o . Keep in mind Us southerners were the first to let ya'll win ! Consider that America and the north has spent billions after every war rebuilding the place they just had the war  ;) Thanks for the face lift  :D. Then there is those city yankees , got to ask do country yankees like city yankees ?
The NEW YORK YANKEES are OK .
 Mostly we like yankees , who else would come down and believe cotton gin was for drinking  ;D or buy worn out farm equipment and furniture calling it antiques ?  ;)
 BTW calling ya'll yankees is better than what ya'll call us sometimes .
All kidding aside Up state NY is one pretty place ! If I go back maybe I won't wear my pointy toe boots it seemed to cause a stir last time !
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Offline Bigeasy

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Re: Your thoughts on "Yankees"
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2010, 09:45:27 AM »
As a man born and raised in the Northeast, I find statements such as "Damn Yankee", or threads with titles such as "War of Northern Aggression" just as offensive as a southern man would find the terms like "Ignorant Southerner", or "War of Southern Stupidity" to be.

Kind of thought we were all Americans...  Personally I judge someone by their thoughts and actions, not their geographical location, or the actions of relatives 150 years ago.

Larry
Personal opinion is a good thing, and everyone is entitled to one.  The hard part is separating informed opinion from someone who is just blowing hot air....

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Your thoughts on "Yankees"
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2010, 10:05:52 AM »
lighten up most is in jest ! besides if a Southerners ever did moved up North ya'll would come up with a name for um ! ;D Its cold up there .
In Richmond Va. we tease each other about the side of the James river ya live on , I live on the south side  BTW .
I hope as Americans we never lose our ablity to laugh at ourselves and tease each other .

If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Your thoughts on "Yankees"
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2010, 10:10:40 AM »
Besides yankee is better than coon azz and some Southerners call themselves that .
BTW I dare say there was no real Americans that didn't feel pain and want to attack those who attacked America above and below the Mason/Dixion line on 9-11
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Your thoughts on "Yankees"
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2010, 10:42:13 AM »
like my other post said, we all have yankee blood.  I think it's the rebs that keep fighting the war.
I moved here in 69 because I was about to freeze to death in chicago.
Give me liberty, or give me death
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Offline Bigeasy

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Re: Your thoughts on "Yankees"
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2010, 12:45:45 PM »
BTW I dare say there was no real Americans that didn't feel pain and want to attack those who attacked America above and below the Mason/Dixion line on 9-11


Now thats a true statement...

Larry
Personal opinion is a good thing, and everyone is entitled to one.  The hard part is separating informed opinion from someone who is just blowing hot air....

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Your thoughts on "Yankees"
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2010, 11:37:05 PM »
I do accept each man for what they are . I also live in one of the hardest hit areas of the war between the states . You can not go many miles in any direction that you don't see a grave yard from the war. I live on Lee's route of retreat with in walking distance of cannon placements and trenches . We are still finding artifacts from the war , one exploded a few years back killing a man. Many here believe it was illegal for Lincon to prevent the Southern states from leaving. There has been and in some cases still cases of the Southern raw materials being exploited . I believe the South has a right and obligation to keep alive the memory , much like all the states should keep alive the memory of 1776. The fed govt was the govt of the north and in many cases it does not nor ever has embraced Southern morals or ambitions. At the time of the war the South was reguarded much like the fly over states are today . In the South we take remembering to a high level and make no excuse for doing so. The govt. has forced many lifestyle changes on the South in the last 60 years , you may consider them right or wrong but the fact is it caused much greif in the South. Its hard to forget when we get reminded so often.
 As a child we heard the saying in jest - SAVE YOUR MONEY THE SOUTH SHALL RISE AGAIN never considered it much more than humor UNTIL NOW !  ;D
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Offline Spanky

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Re: Your thoughts on "Yankees"
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2010, 04:02:30 AM »
This is what I was hoping for guys... opinions coming from both sides without harsh words or name calling. Like I said, I'm a history lover and I like to learn the facts no matter what. ;)
There was some talk of the southern economy taking 100 years to reach the level it had at the start of the War. Why is that? Was industry destroyed or trade or ??
What specifically caused the economic damage and what did it take to recover from it? (has it fully recovered yet?)



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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Your thoughts on "Yankees"
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2010, 04:10:14 AM »
I would suggest many lost investment capital. The labor force in many cases went from slave labor to pay labor, not that the care , food and shelter to have slaves was free but in many cases the slave was allowed a plot to grow his own food . But a wild guess would be that the South shipped very little product compared to pre war years , accmulated debt and had to pay pensions to soilders . Those who had bought products from the South had found new and less expensive sources. And a thing called carpet baggers and squallewags didn't help.
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Offline subdjoe

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Re: Your thoughts on "Yankees"
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2010, 05:48:06 AM »
I would suggest many lost investment capital. The labor force in many cases went from slave labor to pay labor, not that the care , food and shelter to have slaves was free but in many cases the slave was allowed a plot to grow his own food . But a wild guess would be that the South shipped very little product compared to pre war years , accmulated debt and had to pay pensions to soilders . Those who had bought products from the South had found new and less expensive sources. And a thing called carpet baggers and squallewags didn't help.

Add in the scorched earth policy of the federals, which meant that all means of production were destroyed.  Grain mills, cotton mills, iron works, foundries, etc. razed.  Tracks torn up.  Ships burned.  Draft animals taken by the army or killed.  In some cases, such as Roswell GA, the entire remaining population 'disappeared' by the federals.  The loss of manpower killed or maimed during the war, or just moved on afterwards because they had noting left - homes burned and families killed or disappeared.  And the plunder of the wealth of the southern states during and after the war.

Some of the states economies didn't get back to the 1860 levels until the 1960s. 
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Your thoughts on "Yankees"
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2010, 06:27:10 AM »
then civil rights marches/roits burned some more cities
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Offline SouthernByGrace

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Re: Your thoughts on "Yankees"
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2010, 09:04:09 AM »
Spanky, the reason it took so long for the South's economy to get back to prewar levels (not show an increase, just get back to square one) was because the Union army destroyed the South's ability to produce even the most basic necessities such as plows and farming implements (remember, the South's economy was based on agrarian (farming) interests , parts for wagons and buggies, or tools of any kind.
   When the Great Depression hit in the 1930's, the South never knew it because they had been in a depression for some 75 years!! South Carolina's economy is the worst in the country to this day as a result of the federal Government's punishment for "starting" the War. According to Sherman's own estimates, he inflicted over $80,000,000 in damage just to the state of Georgia. That was in 1860's dollars, which translates to roughly $1 BILLION today. The state of Mississippi was literally raped of its natural resources. Tens of Thousands of acres of old growth pine forests were simply stolen by Northerners who just came down and took what they wanted; regardless of whose land it was, they just cut the trees and the land owners never got compensated for their losses. Those trees were well over 100 years old at that time. 
   The Southern states were not allowed to have their own elected representatives in Congress until the 1930's, so Southerners had no say so in their own states as to the paths they would take over the next several decades. They couldn't make their own laws, or enforce the laws they already had. The state of Georgia was the final state to rejoin the Union in 1870 (Georgia is the only state to have FOUR admission dates. They joined under the original American Government, the Articles of Confederation, then again under the Constitution, then again in 1866 for about 3 months, then finally in 1870).

SBG
"Let us cross over the river and rest under the shade of the trees..."
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Offline SouthernByGrace

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Re: Your thoughts on "Yankees"
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2010, 11:13:38 AM »
What specifically caused the economic damage and what did it take to recover from it? (has it fully recovered yet?)

This link will help show some of what I'm talking about... It shows the average household median income, by state, from Highest to Lowest, using a 3 year average (covering the years 2008, 2009, and 2010). This is an official U.S. Census Bureau document. The document opens with Microsoft Excel. If you don't have Excel, let me know and I will post the actual document here.

(Click on the last option in the list titled Income of Households by State Ranked from Highest to Lowest Using 3-Year Average)
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/statemedfaminc.html

This clearly shows that, of the 11 states that seceded, only ONE (Virginia) is in the Top 35. With the exception of Virginia, every Confederate State is in the bottom 17... 150 years later!!!

So to answer your question, NO the South's economy has NOT recovered... AT ALL!!!


SouthernByGrace
"Let us cross over the river and rest under the shade of the trees..."
Final words spoken by Gen. Thomas J. (Stonewall) Jackson, CSA

Offline Spanky

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Re: Your thoughts on "Yankees"
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2010, 12:53:07 PM »
What industry has returned or been established since? With the exception of the forestry has the agricultural industry returned to profitable levels? Sorry for so many questions but I simply don't know and want to learn. I was taught history in a northern school but like I said... I want both sides of the story. ;)
Thanks guys.



Spanky

Offline Ga.windbreak

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Re: Your thoughts on "Yankees"
« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2010, 01:59:45 PM »
As a man born and raised in the Northeast, I find statements such as "Damn Yankee", or threads with titles such as "War of Northern Aggression" just as offensive as a southern man would find the terms like "Ignorant Southerner", or "War of Southern Stupidity" to be.

Kind of thought we were all Americans...  Personally I judge someone by their thoughts and actions, not their geographical location, or the actions of relatives 150 years ago.

Larry

Welcome Bigeasy, understand I say this with utmost respect the title of this forum is "The War of Northern Aggression" which imho is much more truthful than "Civil War" which to me is much more disrespectful and offensive as well as being a down right lie than the other afore named title.

You will take note, on this forum, I refrain from using damn yankee or any other slang to help maintain civility on the board, which is not to say I haven't used it if necessary. As for what others do, let their conscience be their guide.

My only desire is to see the whole truth be told, all of it! The good, the bad, and the ugly not so one guy or the other can gain pleasure from saying I was right and you were wrong but to see that every american from that bleak period of our history recieves the honor he/she/black/white/North/South deserve.

To call a man traitor for defending everything he believes in with his life is the most disrespectful and offensive thing of all to me.

Again Welcome.
"Men do not differ about what
Things they will call evils;
They differ enormously about what evils
They will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

"It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight."-Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men

Private John Walker Roberts CSA 19th Battalion Georgia Cavalry - Loyalty is a most precious trait - RIP

Offline SouthernByGrace

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Re: Your thoughts on "Yankees"
« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2010, 05:18:07 PM »
Bigeasy, the title of this forum is called The War of Northern Aggression because that's exactly what it was. ALL but one major battle of that war (Gettysburg) was fought in the SOUTH. The South seceded and had their own government, their own constitution, their own military, which, by the way, NEVER attacked the North. It was in fact a war of aggression on the part of the North. If you are offended by that, then so be it, as you are offended by the TRUTH. I'm sorry you feel offended but God gave you freedom of choice and you can choose not to visit forums that offend you. Better yet, you can choose to read the posts on this forum and do like others are doing and actually learn the TRUTH for yourself, good, bad, or indifferent. Believe me, we learn things sometimes we don't like, but that's part of the process of learning. It can't always be what you want it to be.

Ga.windbreak echoed my sentiments exactly. I don't use the phrase "Damn Yankee" unless it is justified, and it rarely is, and usually for someone back then. I don't think I have Ever used it to refer to anyone who posts on this entire website, much less this forum. G.w is also correct, in that it was Not a Civil War. The definition of Civil War is when 2 or more factions are attempting to overthrow a government. The Confederacy never tried to do any such thing.

As for "judging someone by their thoughts and actions, not their geographical location, or actions of relatives 150 years ago," Sir, it ingrained in our lives from birth to honor our ancestors and their noble actions from 150 years ago. Their attempt at restoring the original principles of the Constitution as laid out by the Founding Fathers will NEVER be forgotten by us. As a proud member of The Sons of Confederate Veterans, I recite the Pledge at every function as directed by Lt. General Stephen Dill Lee as follows:

Charge to the Sons of Confederate Veterans

"To you, Sons of Confederate Veterans, we will commit the vindication of the cause for which we fought. To your strength will be given the defense of the Confederate soldier's good name, the guardianship of his history, the emulation of his virtues, the perpetuation of those principles which he loved and which you love also, and those ideals which made him glorious and which you also cherish."

Lt. General Stephen Dill Lee, Commander General,
United Confederate Veterans,
New Orleans, Louisiana, April 25, 1906


The actual Confederate Veterans KNEW even then that they were going to be scandalized and that history was going to paint them as something other that what they were, which is TRUE AMERICAN HEROES!!!!  That the victor gets to write the history of what happened is an understatement when it comes to this War. The North has completely changed it, twisted it, and turned it around to the point that it no longer even resembles reality. For 150 years, there has been a concerted effort to hide the TRUTH of WHAT happened, and WHY it happened, to the point the history books make people believe every word of what is taught to our children today.

SouthernByGrace

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"Let us cross over the river and rest under the shade of the trees..."
Final words spoken by Gen. Thomas J. (Stonewall) Jackson, CSA

Offline SouthernByGrace

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Re: Your thoughts on "Yankees"
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2010, 05:48:15 PM »
What industry has returned or been established since? With the exception of the forestry has the agricultural industry returned to profitable levels? Sorry for so many questions but I simply don't know and want to learn. I was taught history in a northern school but like I said... I want both sides of the story. ;)
Thanks guys.

Spanky

The amount of industry or agriculture that is here now is completely irrelevant when 10 of the 11 states are STILL at the very bottom of the list of income levels in the entire nation, even after 150 years!! When industry IS brought into a Southern State, it usually brings its own workforce with it instead of using local labor forces, at least on a large scale, and especially upper management. And when they DO hire locals, they pay them less than Half of what they pay their Northern counterparts. Then all they do is pollute our air and water and when they've exhausted all their resources, they move on and never clean up their mess. I've been told by a window manufacturer plant owner from Ohio that the reason for paying so much less is that Southerners are so desperate for jobs, they take what they can get and rarely question the pay scale, then only if they travel to the plant's other facilities up North, where they learn what's happening. 

SBG
"Let us cross over the river and rest under the shade of the trees..."
Final words spoken by Gen. Thomas J. (Stonewall) Jackson, CSA

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Your thoughts on "Yankees"
« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2010, 03:59:07 AM »
southernbygrace, you are a bitter man still fighting the war.  get over it.  none of us were here then.
both sides can make their points. I have a cousin buried at andersonville but I'm not bitter about it.
I love the history of the war, but I don't like to see people keep fighting it.
Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     Patrick Henry

Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     bugeye

Offline subdjoe

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Re: Your thoughts on "Yankees"
« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2010, 06:18:23 AM »
southernbygrace, you are a bitter man still fighting the war.  get over it.  none of us were here then.
both sides can make their points. I have a cousin buried at andersonville but I'm not bitter about it.
I love the history of the war, but I don't like to see people keep fighting it.
The Reeducation and historic revision continues. What gets taught in schools?  Slavery only existed in the South, all whites in the south were slave owning bigots, SC fired on Sumter without any provocation, and it was fought by the egalitarian and altruistic North rising in righteous indignation to end slavery once and for all.   Quite possibly if the North would stop shooting, so would the South. That is what the "fight" is about now, bringing out the truth.

Take your trotting out your cousin buried at Andersonville.  We all know about Andersonville.  Can't have a discussion about the War without someone pulling it out like a talisman that somehow proves that the South was inhabited by nothing but vicious barbarians.  We don't hear about the Federal Paradises on Earth like Camp Douglas, Point Lookout, Elmira, Camp Chase - where in the land of plenty prisoners were starved and brutalized  as a matter of policy, rather than lack of resources as in Andersonville (yes, some of the guards there were brutal by nature, that seems to go with soldiers being made into prison guards no matter where or when).  Likely if Honest Abe hadn't stopped the prisoner exchanges your cousin would not have died there (Oh?  You didn't know that Abe stopped the exchanges to 1.) place more pressure on the Confederate supply line and 2.) cause outrage in the north over the starvation and brutal treatment of the Federals held in Southern POW camps?). Or, maybe it was because his rations were stolen by the Andersonville Raiders (all good Northern men). Oh, wait, can't mention them, everything was the fault of Wirz.  This ties back to the federal policy bordering on genocide-by-starvation of the southern population.  
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline Ga.windbreak

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Re: Your thoughts on "Yankees"
« Reply #25 on: December 24, 2010, 06:22:03 AM »
Quote from: BUGEYE
you are a bitter man

Hold on now, lets not confuse passion with bitterness, nor should we judge any here unless we've walked in his shoes a day or two. I know SBG and bitterness is not in his nature and getting personal is not a good thing, ok!
"Men do not differ about what
Things they will call evils;
They differ enormously about what evils
They will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

"It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight."-Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men

Private John Walker Roberts CSA 19th Battalion Georgia Cavalry - Loyalty is a most precious trait - RIP

Offline Spanky

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Re: Your thoughts on "Yankees"
« Reply #26 on: December 24, 2010, 12:57:26 PM »
Guys please don't let this thread slip into harsh tones and insults. I'm asking honest questions in hopes of learning the where, why and how's of the War and how it still affects us. I'm grateful to those of you who are posting good historical facts and information.



Spanky

Offline Ga.windbreak

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Re: Your thoughts on "Yankees"
« Reply #27 on: December 24, 2010, 08:18:06 PM »
Here, here Spanky!

Trust me, we will not allow the thread to travel down "that" road.

Please Gentlemen, pray continue.

And BTW hope all have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
"Men do not differ about what
Things they will call evils;
They differ enormously about what evils
They will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

"It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight."-Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men

Private John Walker Roberts CSA 19th Battalion Georgia Cavalry - Loyalty is a most precious trait - RIP

Offline Gary G

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Re: Your thoughts on "Yankees"
« Reply #28 on: December 25, 2010, 07:19:52 AM »
The supreme irony occurred when Lincoln had the grandson of the author of the Star Spangled Banner arrested without a warrant and held in prison without charges, merely on suspicion of disloyalty to Lincoln. This occurred at Ft. Henry, the scene that had inspired the writing of the national anthem. Frank Key Howard wrote about this horrible experience in a book published in 1881:

"When I looked out in the morning, I could not help being struck by an odd and not pleasant coincidence. On that day, forty-seven years before, my grandfather, Mr. F.S. Key, then a prisoner on a British  ship , had witnessed the bombardment of Fort McHenry.When on the following morning, the hostile fleet drew off, defeated, he wrote the song so long popular throughout the country, the "Star Spangled Banner". As I stood upon the very scene of that conflict, I could not but contrast my position with his, forty-seven years before. The flag which he had then so proudly hailed, I saw waving, at the same place, over the victims of as vulgar and brutal despotism as modern times have witnessed."


(Whether northerner or southerner, if you value liberty, that was a sad day for you.)


This excerpt came form the book "Reassessing the Presidency", Mises institute. The two chapters on Lincoln are well worth the price of the book.
The sole purpose of government is to protect your liberty. The Constitution is not to restrict the people, but to restrict government.  Ron Paul

The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first. - Thomas Jefferson

“Everyone wants to live at the expense of the State. They forget that the State lives at the expense of everyone.” — Frederic Bastiat

Offline Ga.windbreak

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Re: Your thoughts on "Yankees"
« Reply #29 on: December 25, 2010, 08:52:49 PM »
^^^^^^^^^^
Thanks for the heads up Gary G. I've added that title to my wish list!
"Men do not differ about what
Things they will call evils;
They differ enormously about what evils
They will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

"It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight."-Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men

Private John Walker Roberts CSA 19th Battalion Georgia Cavalry - Loyalty is a most precious trait - RIP