Author Topic: Coyote shotgun project (Read 2397 times)

je265 · « **on:** December 23, 2010, 04:26:28 AM »

I do quite a bit of coyote hunting over the winter and end up using a shotgun alot because in Massachusetts you can hunt coyotes until midnight but after dark can only use .22 lr or shotguns. I have carried an 870 for years but rarely get off more than one shot and it is heavier than I like to carry.

A couple of years ago I stocked up on Remington Wingmaster HD 3" BB shells when they were on sale at Dick's. I used to shoot 3" lead BB shot and found the newer hevi-shot loads provide better one shot kills. I probably have around 75 or so rounds of these shells which should last me years because in a good year I only shoot 2 to 3 coyotes.

I was at a gun store yesterday and picked up an as new 12 Ga 28" modified choke pardner for $70. In my experience the high density shot like Wingmaster HD and hevi-shot perform better in more open chokes. I already have a pardner 12 ga with a full choke that patterns lead BB's great but I am hesitant to shoot the high density loads through the full choke.

I am on the way to the range with my new shotgun and three of the HD shells. I'm already cringing thinking about the recoil and that is why this is going to be a project. My plan is to shoot one shot at 30 yards, 40 yards and 50 yards from the bench. I will take pictures of the targets and when I get back to the range on another day I will repeat the "test" in the event I flinched or had a bad shell.

I would love to see a lethal pattern out to 50 yards but would be satisfied with a consistant 40 yard pattern. I'll post pics when I get back from the range for those that are interested.

Rustyinfla · « **Reply #1 on:** December 23, 2010, 05:59:14 AM »

It sounds like an interesting project. I wonder what would happen if you (or someone) would fit one of the old adjustable Poly Cokes to a Pardner so you could tune the choke to the desired pattern? The first shotgun I ever had used a Poly choke and I used it for everything.

BTW you might try adding some lead shot to the but stock to reduce the felt recoil.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #2 on:** December 23, 2010, 07:29:35 AM »

Very interesting buddy. Please keep the posts coming as your project continues. I also am stuck in the Peoples Republic of Massachsuetts, and if you can get a 50 yard coyote shotgun I would be very happy. Have a very safe and MERRY CHRISTmas....<><....

gcrank1 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 23, 2010, 07:37:30 AM »

Sure hope you have a recoil pad! Even so, if its the stock one you might want to put a slip-on Limbsaver over it (longer LOP on a shotgun than rifle is OK) and/or install one on the stock. Im thinking hard about a Mercury Recoil Reducer for my 12, but will probably try the lead shot (in a homemade paperboard tube and duct tape ends) since the price is right.

je265 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 23, 2010, 09:40:15 AM »

I just got back from the range. I decided to bring two types of ammo to try.
#1- Remington Wingmaster HD 12 Ga 3" 1300 Fps 1 1/2 oz of BB shot
#2- Remington Wingmaster HD 12 Ga 3" 1450 Fps 1 1/4 oz of #2 shot
I prefer the BB's for coyotes but remember getting a real good deal on the #2's and ended up with thirty rounds so I figured I would see how they shot.

I made a target that is around 8" or so, probably a little big for a coyote kill zone but it will show marginal hits.
I shot two rounds of the BB's, one at 30 yards and one at 40 yards. At 30 yards I ended up with 15 hits on target and at 40 yards I ended up with 4 hits on target. I decided against shooting at 50 yards because I felt it would have been a waste of time and ammo.

je265 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 23, 2010, 09:52:19 AM »

I then shot the #2's with 11 hits on target at 30 yards and 5 hits on target at 40 yards. I again decided against any 50 yard shots as the pattern seemed to be opening up too much.

je265 · « **Reply #6 on:** December 23, 2010, 10:02:37 AM »

I know that only shooting one round at any given range is not very scientific but this is just a start of a rather long project. In hindsight I should have also added a recoil pad or filled the stock with lead as some suggested as the recoil was pretty stiff. I feel confident that I have an honest 35 yard coyote gun as it sits as both rounds seemed to spread out pretty good between 30 and 40 yards. I would like to have at least 5 to 6 consistant hits on target to feel comfortable with the high density shot. I would never have thought to use a modified choke with traditional lead shot (coyote loads) and to be honest never even tried it out.

My plan is to continue this experiment by shooting my traditional lead 3" BB load at both 30 and 40 yards as well as some 3" #4 buck that many predator hunters like to use. I am not allowed to hunt with any size buckshot in MA outside of deer season but I'll pattern it out just to see how it does. I'll probably bring back some more HD BB shot and repeat today's shots at 30 and 40 yards as this will be my go-to load.

Thanks for your interest
Jim

je265 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 23, 2010, 10:17:05 AM »

One more picture of the other ammo I have on hand for my next range trip.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 23, 2010, 10:42:31 AM »

In about a 5.5# Pardner and those loads he says,"recoil was pretty stiff"............HA, YA, hurts just thinkin' about it!
You are a tough dude!
I didnt pattern it, but mine with an upgrade recoil pad stock and the 12ga. cyl. bore 'Buck' barrel (24")put a pretty nicely bunched pack of pellets (old handloads, maybe #2s in 3" hulls, stiff too) out at 25ish yd.s in the snow the other day. From the look of it mine it patterned tighter and I wouldnt hesitate a varmint shot at that distance.
Good luck!

Rustyinfla · « **Reply #9 on:** December 23, 2010, 12:19:32 PM »

JE, if you don't want to do anything to the gun an extra sandbag between you and the gun can help.

I'm surprised at how many people never pattern a shotgun. You're doing it right all the way!

bikerbeans · « **Reply #10 on:** December 23, 2010, 02:13:06 PM »

Probably a dumb question, but what about buckshot or a slug on the yotes?

BB

je265 · « **Reply #11 on:** December 23, 2010, 02:27:34 PM »

BB
In Mass we are not allowed to have slugs or buckshot outside of deer season. I can hunt coyotes with a 30-06 during the day but cant carry a 12 ga with #4 buckshot. After sunset the only legal weapons are .22 lr and shotguns with shot smaller than buckshot. Up until a couple of years ago we couldn't even use BB shot, #2's were as good as it got. I usually hunt with an older Rem 700 in .222 rem during daylight hours but with a new Handi-rifle in .223 rem I may use that as my go-to weapon of choice during the day.

gjdykeman · « **Reply #12 on:** December 23, 2010, 05:02:18 PM »

I re-load my own 12 shotgun shells for long range. I purchased a Lee hand loader for 20 bucks off of e-Bay. A bag of steel shot/turkey wads, 12 bucks. Unslit. I have a 12g barrel with muzzleloader sights. It is cyl bore. I re-load so have a few different powders. Recently fired some of these with #6 shot. About 60y, one raged hole. A little left. Workable. The project is to get about an 8" to 14" pattern at 60y. I have done this but had a wide group. Just an idea. My thought it's the shell, wad and load, not the gun. A project but, i think successful. Still working it. Slitting the wads, different lengths and number, affects where it is dropped. Right now no slits, a slug.

10gaugeMS^_^ · « **Reply #13 on:** December 23, 2010, 05:36:19 PM »

Are you going to pattern hevi-shot dead coyote? I see they just started marking for the 10 Ga I should pick up a box to pattern. You ever been over to predatormasters? Its a coyote forum mainly. Im waiting for pcammo to start up again next year so I can buy some 2 1/4 oz #2 lead shells. Im not latin federal 63$ for there 10 Ga lead bb load. I probably pattern some bigger buckshot to if . I not its to first choice but it may work in your gun

bikerbeans · « **Reply #14 on:** December 24, 2010, 04:11:06 AM »

je265,

Don't you just love the hunting regulations the regulators dream up? Keep us posted on your shotgun patterning it is a good project. I am interested because there are Yotes in the woods about 350 yards behind my house but there are houses another 400 yards behind the woods so a CF rifle is out even though legal at night in Ohio.

BB

billy_56081 · « **Reply #15 on:** December 24, 2010, 11:17:56 AM »

I have a 25" long 3.5 inch 12 guage with an extended mod choke tube on it. It shoots dead coyote and win 3.5 inch 48 pellet 4 buck real well. I get multiple hits on a paper plate out to 65 yards. Kills coyotes well too. Seems like the dead coyote penetrates better.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #16 on:** December 24, 2010, 12:20:50 PM »

My coyote hunting buddy in Maine got a Savage 12 gauge with a 30-30 barrel on top (IIRC). He tried the Dead Coyote loads and the second shell blew the barrel off the lug. We had shot many #4 buck Winchester without any problems. The primer was flattened and showed signs of excessive pressure. I called the company and we returned the rest of the box along with the empty shell that blew up his gun. The company never called or responded. They are bums as far as I am concerned. They never even tried to make it right. He as able to do OK with the gun but the ammo company never even offered to replace the ammo or the cost of it. It was definitely a bad overloaded shell that caused the problem and destroyed his gun and they never even tried to call or contact he or I about the problem. They just wanted to ignore it and did ignore the problem and us. Now I wish I had not returned the ammo and the offending shell to them. I am not a litigous person but perhaps a law suit would have made them a little more understanding. I will never buy or use Dead coyote ammo. Anyone and any company can make a mistake, but it's how they respond that makes the difference, and the response of "Dead Coyote" was non existant, and this after I spoke to them on the phone a couple of times.
Merry Christmas Dead Coyote, you have to live with yourself, enjoy it....<><....

je265 · « **Reply #17 on:** December 24, 2010, 01:56:09 PM »

What a shame that the dead coyote people wouldn't do the right thing. I wasn't planning on buying any of their ammo anyway because it is real expensive and I've never been able to find deals on it. Most of the ammo I buy is on sale and I have a hard time paying over $3.00 a shot for dead coyote ammo. A local store has some Federal Coyote ammo in BB's for $25 for 5 rounds

I've heard great things about the flight control wads and I have been a fan of Federal ammo for a while but I'm not willing to pay $5 a shot. Most die-hard coyote hunters that use shotguns seem to think that only about 10% of shotguns will pattern at 50 yards with a reliable pattern for one shot kills. This factors in a combo of shotgun, choke selection, and ammo.
My purpose of this project was to spend a little time and ammo to wring out an everyday shotgun that is available to most everybody for a good deal. If I were interested in getting a true 50yd coyote shotgun I probably would work on one with chokes. Many of these chokes that the "experts" are using cost almost as much as my entire shotgun did. Based on my testing so far I feel good out to 35 yds and maybe I'll get lucky with some other loads and stretch this to 40 or even 45 yards. I really can't complain considering the price I paid for this shotgun and knowing that most of my shots on coyotes are within 35 yards especially since I started using a decoy.
Have a Merry Christmas and thanks for the interest in my little project.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #18 on:** December 24, 2010, 02:32:57 PM »

It is a great winter project buddy and don't give up on it. I have an H&R with choke tubes I use for Turkey and deer hunting, It wears either a red dot or scope, depending on my hunting and my mood I guess. I also have picked up a bunch of different turkey chokes but like you I have found that large shot (#4 Buck) patterns tighter with a modified choke than an x-full. I will have to try some bb size lead shot also. I like the idea of an uncut or lightly cut shot cup to hold the pattern tight at long range. These fine little shotguns that are set up for choke tubes can be fitted with any tube you want so the possibilities are endless. I sometimes use #4 buck in Maine for coyotes but usually go with my .22 Mag or a .223 (both Handis). I have hunted for them with my .17 HMR but only one brief afternoon outing and did not see any that one time I used it. I would like to get a coyote with my .17 HMR. But then again I like getting them with anything. Here on Cape Cod we have a coyote problem and have had either 4 or 5 people attacked in the last 2 or 3 years, children waiting for the school bus in Sandwich as well as adults, notably a woman in Marstons Mills in her own backyard, as well as her husband who came to her rescue. The coyote/animal lovers seem to think these attacks never happened and even after they are all over the front page of the paper the "coyote people" keep repeating coyotes have not attacked anyone in Massachusetts. The problem is not as bad as it was 2 years ago or last year but it is still a problem. Don't let the cat out (unless you want to get rid of him)...Merry CHRISTmas....<><....

McDerry · « **Reply #19 on:** December 24, 2010, 06:48:53 PM »

Whats the largest shot size that you can use??

T shot is birdshot, its just big birdshot.

Highspeed steel T's is like using number 4 buck on varmints. Cheaper too.

Also try patterning the shotgun with a bigger target, the group maybe off center of the target.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #20 on:** December 24, 2010, 06:52:16 PM »

I would also suggest doing it from a standing 'field' position, or whatever position you are most likely to shot at the critter from. That recoil impulse will be different than off a bench and may center, or not. You want to know.

Foggy · « **Reply #21 on:** December 25, 2010, 12:20:15 AM »

Have your Forcing cone lenthed . This will real dencen up your pattern. I'm fixin to build another 12 ga shorty, with a forcing cone job and a Poly choke that way you can tune your choke to your shott not all shat likes a stock choke or choke tube.

Just my 2cents
Foggy

tony212 · « **Reply #22 on:** December 25, 2010, 12:38:24 AM »

Something else you could try is having choke tubes added. I'm in Massachusetts also(Berkshire County) and had them added by a gunsmith in Amhearst. He did an excellent job and was very reasonable. I too have been a big fan of Federals Flight Control Wads. I have used them in their buckshot and their turkey loads and they amaze me with the patterns they produce. In the turkey loads they are almost too tight. The only draw back is #4 shot is the largest you can get with flight control wads. Anyway if you are interested in having the tubes added, PM me and I'll send you the address and phone #.
Tony212

je265 · « **Reply #23 on:** December 25, 2010, 06:51:11 AM »

Tony, I'll pm you for the info. I might keep this one stock but have been looking for a good gunsmith for other projects.
I'll keep the forcing cone in mind as well.

At my range we are required to keep all targets at the backstop and luckily the day I shot nobody else was there so I walked up on the target frame and shot from a sitting position the way I do when I predator hunt. I will be bringing some larger paper targets to replace behind my circle targets between shots to check the pattern better, I realized this after my first shot on the clean cardboard. Fortunately that one shot looked pretty centered.

I'm not too sure about the steel shot on predators as before the hevishot craze I used to lose some even with solid hits of lead BB's. Many of these shots were within 40 yards with a full choke and I know I was getting good patterns out of my 870 with a full choke but I think they lacked the energy for winter prime coyotes. My biggest coyote is a male that weighed 53 lbs and I know there have been a few killed in Mass near 60 lbs. Most are not that big but there are some bruisers running around here.

Last year I hit one that my buddy had shot at with his rifle and missed at 60 yards and I knocked him off his feet with the highdensity BB's. That one required a second shot with the rifle but I would never have even taken that shot with lead shot. The highdensity stuff is the way to go in my book.

10gaugeMS^_^ · « **Reply #24 on:** December 25, 2010, 09:59:56 AM »

Hevi-shot makes dead coyote .though you could just wait and use less. There's a small company coming out with some 19.5 g/c shot. I think that's a tad bit denser than du

je265 · « **Reply #25 on:** December 28, 2010, 09:05:40 AM »

Quick range trip today to confirm zero on one of my rifles and I brought along my shotgun and Winchester 3" #4 Buck (41 pellets) Only 4 hits on target at 30 yards and two hits on target at 40 yards. The pattern appeared uniform on the new cardboard I put up between shots. I can't use this load in Mass anyway but I've read many places this is a go-to load for many coyote hunters.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #26 on:** December 28, 2010, 10:02:37 AM »

What choke for those patterns with the #4 buck? I hasve used it it Maine and it patterned tighter than that. IIRC I used a modified choke with pretty good results but a x-full turkey choke seem to open it up all over th place at 40 yards....<><....

je265 · « **Reply #27 on:** December 28, 2010, 11:00:28 AM »

Hi Andy
All the testing I'm doing is with a 12 ga 28" modified choke barrel. I thought it would do better as well but I guess that's why I'm patterning this with all different loads to see what works. Next range trip will be with 3" lead BB's and I'm going to repeat the shots with the 3" Remington High Density BB's as they seem to shoot the best so far.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #28 on:** December 28, 2010, 12:45:56 PM »

I just had a thought and checked. The #4 buck you are shooting is 3" Mag. The #4 buck I have shot and used in Maine for coyotes was 2 3/4" standard velocity. I have found that the great majority of the time standard velocity loads group/pattern better than magnums. The #4 buck I used was an issue round which was used by a federal agency both as a "room clearer", for CQC, and forced entries. Don't ask me how I obtained it, I don't remember and I'll go to the grave insisting that. I trained for a while with other agencies speciality units and was lucky enough to go to some federal training sessions. Besides, the agent that asked me to dispose of those rounds is probably retired now like the rest of us old guys.
....<><....

zackyholdem · « **Reply #29 on:** December 28, 2010, 03:52:23 PM »

i have a feeling that you patterns arent dense enough for one shot kills, i have killed quite a few coyotes during turkey season with hevi 13 turkey loads, they a tungeston and pattern much better than remington wingmasters, my fav coyote load is their 3" 2oz #4, their fours hit like lead 2's and penetrate much better than lead, i know you have a large stock of rems but this is just another option