Author Topic: 45-70 reduced loads  (Read 3813 times)

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Offline jeepmann1948

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45-70 reduced loads
« on: December 25, 2010, 04:47:44 AM »
Has any of the 45-70 experts tried H4895 reduced loads in their Handi's?
Thanks & Merry Christmas
George
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  it's where you hit em "

Offline Shu

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Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2010, 04:50:31 AM »
No sir I haven't. I like Unique and cast bullets.

What type of reduced load are you looking for? As in what purpose, plinking, general purpose, target etc.

Offline gendoc

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Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2010, 05:02:08 AM »
i don't know ifin you call it reduced loads... but i use 40grs of 4895 with a 405 cast @ 1400fps

for jus pitch'n them out there, i use trailboss   ;D

an fer jus gett'ner done DRT... i use imr-4227 ana 300gr rem sjhp @ 1940fps...... thats tha favorite hunt'n load ;D
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Offline jeepmann1948

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Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2010, 09:46:30 AM »
I was contemplating building up a 45-70 (probably a 16") and using reduced loads for the Grandkids to shoot. It should be a hoot handing them a big old 45-70 round to have them shoot.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2010, 09:51:51 AM »
Lots of good cast data here. http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

Merry Christmas!  ;)

Tim
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Offline SlimPigguns

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Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2010, 12:54:35 PM »
I find Trailboss great for 45/70 light loads.
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Offline Shu

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Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2010, 01:43:41 PM »
My daughter shoots a 45-70.  Reduced loads and she will shoot up all my ammo if I am not careful. ;)

Offline COLT45

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Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2010, 08:36:25 PM »
I have a 45-70 -Buffalo Classic and use a 405 gr. lead bullet and 25 gr. of AA 5744. It shoots well and is a "trapdoor" load.
5744 is ,Per AA ,  not case sensitive.

Offline purpledragon

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Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2010, 04:29:08 AM »
Jeepman1, The little 45-70 is a good idea,but, a rifle must have 18" min. bbl. I have thought about the same thing,you know that it would be sharp,a stainless with 16" and walnut stock...............
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2010, 04:40:52 AM »
Jeepman1, The little 45-70 is a good idea,but, a rifle must have 18" min. bbl. I have thought about the same thing,you know that it would be sharp,a stainless with 16" and walnut stock...............

 Purple Dragon, Respectfully NO, you are mistaken or miss informed...
   A rifled barrel attached to a butt stock and on a receiver that is manufactured as a rifle, can have a barrel short as 16" as long as overall length of complete firearm is at least 26".  A SHOTGUN barrel or smooth bore needs to be no shorter then 18" with the same overall length of 26" when a complete firearm.  
MOST people like to add a half inch to those numbers for safety's sake. So they say 16 1/2" Rifled and 18 1/2" Smooth.

CW
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Offline MSP Ret

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Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2010, 04:41:44 AM »
A rifle barrel has a minimum legal length of 16". A shotgun has a minimum barrel length of 18". These are Federal required lengths, your state may have different requirements....<><....:)
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2010, 05:00:21 AM »
Please correct me if wrong, but I thought Federal law supercedes in this case.

Hey Jeep, are you asking because that is a powder you have, or are you looking for a good 'all rounder' to try?
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Offline jeepmann1948

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Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2010, 05:18:59 AM »
I was wondering because H4895 works so well in a lot of cartridges from  a full bore to reduced load.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2010, 05:27:57 AM »
FWIW, I've used H4895 in the 45-120, their 60gr max load was position sensitive, reminded me of shooting a poorly primed flintlock, hangfired if I didn't make sure the powder was resting in the back part of the cartridge.

Tim
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Offline jeepmann1948

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Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2010, 05:44:36 AM »
Thanks Tim  that not the shooting experience I want the Kids to have :o
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2010, 05:53:02 AM »
I'll stick with XMP 5744 or Trail Boss, thank you very much.  ::)

CW
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Offline rsl

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Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2010, 05:55:32 AM »
I shoot a 300 grain lead bullet with 35 grains of 3031 in my BC..  A little dirty but a nice plinking load..  Good luck.

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2010, 06:12:53 AM »
A5744 works great in my 45-120, never used it in the 45-70 tho, I've read a lot of shooters like SR4759 for reduced loads in their 45-70 tho, the complaints I've read of with A5744 was that it left a lot what appeared to be unburned powder in the bore, and the SR4759 was cleaner.

Tim

http://www.imrpowder.com/sr4759.html

http://www.chuckhawks.com/reduced_recoil_reloads.htm

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/small_charges.htm

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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2010, 06:48:43 AM »
A5744 works great in my 45-120, never used it in the 45-70 tho, I've read a lot of shooters like SR4759 for reduced loads in their 45-70 tho, the complaints I've read of with A5744 was that it left a lot what appeared to be unburned powder in the bore, and the SR4759 was cleaner.

Tim

http://www.imrpowder.com/sr4759.html

http://www.chuckhawks.com/reduced_recoil_reloads.htm

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/small_charges.htm

 Good catch Tim!  I have used these as well in many calibers with excellent results. (SR 4756, 4759, 7625 and PB)

I still LOVE a little scoop of PB and a 115Lead slug in my 32-20 lever as a "fun" load!!

CW
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Offline Flynmoose

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Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2010, 08:16:33 AM »
I don't hunt so do not know if my loads would work. I load SR 4759 and
Remington 405gr SPs for my Encore and Pedersoli rolling block. I shoot
the gongs and generally make alot of noise with them. They do fire every
time with that powder, showing no signs of position sensitivity. I also had
a bunch of SR4759 given to me and free is a very good price!
FM
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Offline wreckhog

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Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2010, 03:52:38 AM »
I was contemplating building up a 45-70 (probably a 16") and using reduced loads for the Grandkids to shoot. It should be a hoot handing them a big old 45-70 round to have them shoot.

A primer and a piece of hot glue stick?

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Offline Shu

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Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2010, 08:18:33 AM »
The GMDR web site has alot of nice reduced load for the 45-70. They have fired a few thousand rounds of these. From personal experience they do work great. You do need to be cautious about double charging. Double charging can wreck your day.

A 300 grain + bullet traveling at 1000fps is still very good on deer within its range limitations.

My daughter shoots my 45-70 so have at it.

Offline gcrank1

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Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2010, 09:04:15 AM »
There is just as much nastalgia in the .45Colt, and to kids it would seem pretty big. If you dont have a 45-70 maybe considering the 'little brother' is worth the thought.
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Offline Shu

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Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2010, 09:27:03 AM »
45 colt, 44 mag, any of them big round cartridges would be good. They serve double duty as plinkers and hunters.

Offline Sourdough

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Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2010, 10:11:52 AM »
I know this is about 45-70, but I feel the info I have about .45LC may apply to the old 45-70 as well.

After seeing detonation using Unique and 45 Long Colts I am sort of paranoid of making reduced loads using anything other than Trail Boss, or another high volumne powder.  While we waited for the ambulance to carry the injured person to the hospital I picked up the unfired rounds that flew out of the exploded pistol.  You could shake the round and tell there was not much powder in them.  I read the label on the end of the box where the loader had written down the load.  I cannot remember the weight of the cast bullet or the weight of the powder charge, but I do remember it was Unique powder because that was what I was using at the time in my .45 LC.  And I do remember it was a lot less powder than I was using.

I was sitting at a bench facing towards the shooters to my left, talking to a friend.  I watched this guy (found out later it was a young Army Troop) about 40 feet away lower the gun to his right side.  Then slowly raise it to aim at a target that was slightly below him on the ground.  Then he fired and the gun exploded.

During the investigation I was contacted as a witness to the accident.  Had an Army weapons expert tell me about detanation in large capacity cartridges.  When I explained what I had seen this troop do, the Expert called it a classic detonation scenerio.  Powder was at the bullet end of the case.  Primer fired in an empty air space between it and the powder.  When the powder ignited it caused extreamely high pressure, more than the imported Colt .45 clone could handle.  From that point on I always made sure I pointed my .45 at the sky before slowly lowering it to fire.  And I quit using Unique, I use a higher volumne powder such as Blue Dot.  Then Trail Boss came out.
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Offline Shu

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Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2010, 08:57:37 AM »
The Lyman book shows 12-17 grains of unique for a 400 grain bullet for a 45- 70. Lyman does not normally publish dangerous information.

Most factory cartridges can be shaken and you can hear the powder that is not unusual.

About 8 grains of Unique and a 255 grain bullet for the 45 colt is a standard load. This load can be found in just about any reloading manual. It is not dangerous or risky. Now if the reloader accidentillay double charged which is possible to do with Unique in the 45 colt that would put his pressures up in the 44 mag  range. That would cause a 45 colt clone to open up. The 45 colt will hold about 25 grains of powder depending on bullet.
 
Once you get to a maximum load pressures go up incredibly fast. That extra grain of powder is just not worth the fps.

However if you feel safer with the bulkier powders please use them. You will find no one who is as concerned with your safety as much as you are. :)


Offline Winter Hawk

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Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2010, 10:06:25 AM »
Thanks Sourdough, you made the point I was going to bring up.  Volume of the case needs to be filled at least 75% (IIRC) to prevent excess pressures in a cartridge.  Lots of folks use fillers (cream of wheat comes to mind) but I have read where the fillers turned solid and raised pressures also.  Junior Doughty has some articles which refer to this on his "Frugal Outdoorsman" site (http://www.castbullet.com/).

I have heard about this since I started reloading in the mid 1960s.  It is not something new.  Be careful with reduced loads!

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Offline tacotime

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Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2011, 08:41:10 AM »
Call Hodgdon and ask about their standard rule for reducing H4895 loads.  It is quite liberal, though accuracy may not be all that good on some reduced loads. 

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2011, 08:50:21 AM »
Call Hodgdon and ask about their standard rule for reducing H4895 loads.  It is quite liberal, though accuracy may not be all that good on some reduced loads.  

No need to call, it's on their website, Trail Boss reduced load guidelines are there also.

Tim

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Youth%20Loads.pdf

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

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Offline shooter6br

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Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2011, 10:02:39 PM »
10 grains with 300 to 405 g cast  Great load No fillers or wadding