Author Topic: 45-70 reduced loads  (Read 3855 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline jeepmann1948

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (67)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1422
  • Gender: Male
  • San Angelo, Texas
45-70 reduced loads
« on: December 25, 2010, 04:47:44 AM »
Has any of the 45-70 experts tried H4895 reduced loads in their Handi's?
Thanks & Merry Christmas
George
"it ain't what you shoot em with......................
  it's where you hit em "

Offline Shu

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1484
Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2010, 04:50:31 AM »
No sir I haven't. I like Unique and cast bullets.

What type of reduced load are you looking for? As in what purpose, plinking, general purpose, target etc.

Offline gendoc

  • SWAMP GROCERIES RULE !!!
  • Trade Count: (329)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3957
  • TRUTH AND HUMOR, thatsa what i'm talk'n bout
Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2010, 05:02:08 AM »
i don't know ifin you call it reduced loads... but i use 40grs of 4895 with a 405 cast @ 1400fps

for jus pitch'n them out there, i use trailboss   ;D

an fer jus gett'ner done DRT... i use imr-4227 ana 300gr rem sjhp @ 1940fps...... thats tha favorite hunt'n load ;D
sea-ya.....
in tha meen time, i'm wait'n for tha  7th trumpet ta sound !!!

gotta big green tractor ana diesel truck, my idea of heaven's chasin whitetail bucks and asa country boy, you know i can survive............

hey boy, hit this mason jar one time...
burn ya lil'bit did'nt it. ya ever been snipe hunt'n ?  come on...

I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.

Offline jeepmann1948

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (67)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1422
  • Gender: Male
  • San Angelo, Texas
Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2010, 09:46:30 AM »
I was contemplating building up a 45-70 (probably a 16") and using reduced loads for the Grandkids to shoot. It should be a hoot handing them a big old 45-70 round to have them shoot.
"it ain't what you shoot em with......................
  it's where you hit em "

Offline quickdtoo

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43301
  • Gender: Male
Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2010, 09:51:51 AM »
Lots of good cast data here. http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

Merry Christmas!  ;)

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline SlimPigguns

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 105
  • Gender: Male
Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2010, 12:54:35 PM »
I find Trailboss great for 45/70 light loads.
Merry Christmas to all.
Pete
Keep on Shooting!
Queensland AUSTRALIA

Offline Shu

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1484
Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2010, 01:43:41 PM »
My daughter shoots a 45-70.  Reduced loads and she will shoot up all my ammo if I am not careful. ;)

Offline COLT45

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 33
Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2010, 08:36:25 PM »
I have a 45-70 -Buffalo Classic and use a 405 gr. lead bullet and 25 gr. of AA 5744. It shoots well and is a "trapdoor" load.
5744 is ,Per AA ,  not case sensitive.

Offline purpledragon

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 95
Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2010, 04:29:08 AM »
Jeepman1, The little 45-70 is a good idea,but, a rifle must have 18" min. bbl. I have thought about the same thing,you know that it would be sharp,a stainless with 16" and walnut stock...............
This only proves that,when allowed to act outside his lawfully limited authority,a U.S. President is capable of unleashing horrendous violence against the lives,liberty,and property of those he pretends to serve...........

Offline cwlongshot

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (158)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9907
  • Gender: Male
  • Shooting, Hunting, the Outdoors & ATVs
Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2010, 04:40:52 AM »
Jeepman1, The little 45-70 is a good idea,but, a rifle must have 18" min. bbl. I have thought about the same thing,you know that it would be sharp,a stainless with 16" and walnut stock...............

 Purple Dragon, Respectfully NO, you are mistaken or miss informed...
   A rifled barrel attached to a butt stock and on a receiver that is manufactured as a rifle, can have a barrel short as 16" as long as overall length of complete firearm is at least 26".  A SHOTGUN barrel or smooth bore needs to be no shorter then 18" with the same overall length of 26" when a complete firearm.  
MOST people like to add a half inch to those numbers for safety's sake. So they say 16 1/2" Rifled and 18 1/2" Smooth.

CW
"Pay heed to the man who carries a single shot rifle, he likely knows how to use it."

NRA LIFE Member 
Remember... Four boxes keep us free: the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.

Offline MSP Ret

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (173)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8940
  • Gender: Male
Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2010, 04:41:44 AM »
A rifle barrel has a minimum legal length of 16". A shotgun has a minimum barrel length of 18". These are Federal required lengths, your state may have different requirements....<><....:)
"Giving up your gun to someone else on demand is called surrender. It means that you have given up your ability to protect yourself to a power that is greater than you." - David Yeagley

Offline gcrank1

  • Trade Count: (24)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7644
  • Gender: Male
Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2010, 05:00:21 AM »
Please correct me if wrong, but I thought Federal law supercedes in this case.

Hey Jeep, are you asking because that is a powder you have, or are you looking for a good 'all rounder' to try?
"Halt while I adjust my accoutrements!"
      ><   ->
We are only temporary caretakers of the past heading toward an uncertain future
22Mag UV / 22LR  Sportster
357Mag Schuetzen Special
45-70  SS Ultra Hunter with UV cin.lam. wood
12ga. 'Ol' Ugly OverKill', Buck barrel c/w  SpeedStock  and swap 28" x Full bird barrel, 1974

Offline jeepmann1948

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (67)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1422
  • Gender: Male
  • San Angelo, Texas
Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2010, 05:18:59 AM »
I was wondering because H4895 works so well in a lot of cartridges from  a full bore to reduced load.
"it ain't what you shoot em with......................
  it's where you hit em "

Offline quickdtoo

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43301
  • Gender: Male
Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2010, 05:27:57 AM »
FWIW, I've used H4895 in the 45-120, their 60gr max load was position sensitive, reminded me of shooting a poorly primed flintlock, hangfired if I didn't make sure the powder was resting in the back part of the cartridge.

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline jeepmann1948

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (67)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1422
  • Gender: Male
  • San Angelo, Texas
Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2010, 05:44:36 AM »
Thanks Tim  that not the shooting experience I want the Kids to have :o
"it ain't what you shoot em with......................
  it's where you hit em "

Offline cwlongshot

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (158)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9907
  • Gender: Male
  • Shooting, Hunting, the Outdoors & ATVs
Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2010, 05:53:02 AM »
I'll stick with XMP 5744 or Trail Boss, thank you very much.  ::)

CW
"Pay heed to the man who carries a single shot rifle, he likely knows how to use it."

NRA LIFE Member 
Remember... Four boxes keep us free: the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.

Offline rsl

  • Trade Count: (8)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 195
Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2010, 05:55:32 AM »
I shoot a 300 grain lead bullet with 35 grains of 3031 in my BC..  A little dirty but a nice plinking load..  Good luck.

Offline quickdtoo

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43301
  • Gender: Male
Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2010, 06:12:53 AM »
A5744 works great in my 45-120, never used it in the 45-70 tho, I've read a lot of shooters like SR4759 for reduced loads in their 45-70 tho, the complaints I've read of with A5744 was that it left a lot what appeared to be unburned powder in the bore, and the SR4759 was cleaner.

Tim

http://www.imrpowder.com/sr4759.html

http://www.chuckhawks.com/reduced_recoil_reloads.htm

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/small_charges.htm

"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline cwlongshot

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (158)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9907
  • Gender: Male
  • Shooting, Hunting, the Outdoors & ATVs
Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2010, 06:48:43 AM »
A5744 works great in my 45-120, never used it in the 45-70 tho, I've read a lot of shooters like SR4759 for reduced loads in their 45-70 tho, the complaints I've read of with A5744 was that it left a lot what appeared to be unburned powder in the bore, and the SR4759 was cleaner.

Tim

http://www.imrpowder.com/sr4759.html

http://www.chuckhawks.com/reduced_recoil_reloads.htm

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/small_charges.htm

 Good catch Tim!  I have used these as well in many calibers with excellent results. (SR 4756, 4759, 7625 and PB)

I still LOVE a little scoop of PB and a 115Lead slug in my 32-20 lever as a "fun" load!!

CW
"Pay heed to the man who carries a single shot rifle, he likely knows how to use it."

NRA LIFE Member 
Remember... Four boxes keep us free: the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.

Offline Flynmoose

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 786
  • Gender: Male
Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2010, 08:16:33 AM »
I don't hunt so do not know if my loads would work. I load SR 4759 and
Remington 405gr SPs for my Encore and Pedersoli rolling block. I shoot
the gongs and generally make alot of noise with them. They do fire every
time with that powder, showing no signs of position sensitivity. I also had
a bunch of SR4759 given to me and free is a very good price!
FM
Dear God please protect our troops, especially the snipers.

Offline wreckhog

  • Trade Count: (55)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2997
Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2010, 03:52:38 AM »
I was contemplating building up a 45-70 (probably a 16") and using reduced loads for the Grandkids to shoot. It should be a hoot handing them a big old 45-70 round to have them shoot.

A primer and a piece of hot glue stick?

http://falfiles.com/forums/printthread.php?s=781599033fd6be0af1414e0c9e128235&threadid=287168

Offline Shu

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1484
Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2010, 08:18:33 AM »
The GMDR web site has alot of nice reduced load for the 45-70. They have fired a few thousand rounds of these. From personal experience they do work great. You do need to be cautious about double charging. Double charging can wreck your day.

A 300 grain + bullet traveling at 1000fps is still very good on deer within its range limitations.

My daughter shoots my 45-70 so have at it.

Offline gcrank1

  • Trade Count: (24)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7644
  • Gender: Male
Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2010, 09:04:15 AM »
There is just as much nastalgia in the .45Colt, and to kids it would seem pretty big. If you dont have a 45-70 maybe considering the 'little brother' is worth the thought.
"Halt while I adjust my accoutrements!"
      ><   ->
We are only temporary caretakers of the past heading toward an uncertain future
22Mag UV / 22LR  Sportster
357Mag Schuetzen Special
45-70  SS Ultra Hunter with UV cin.lam. wood
12ga. 'Ol' Ugly OverKill', Buck barrel c/w  SpeedStock  and swap 28" x Full bird barrel, 1974

Offline Shu

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1484
Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2010, 09:27:03 AM »
45 colt, 44 mag, any of them big round cartridges would be good. They serve double duty as plinkers and hunters.

Offline Sourdough

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8150
  • Gender: Male
Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2010, 10:11:52 AM »
I know this is about 45-70, but I feel the info I have about .45LC may apply to the old 45-70 as well.

After seeing detonation using Unique and 45 Long Colts I am sort of paranoid of making reduced loads using anything other than Trail Boss, or another high volumne powder.  While we waited for the ambulance to carry the injured person to the hospital I picked up the unfired rounds that flew out of the exploded pistol.  You could shake the round and tell there was not much powder in them.  I read the label on the end of the box where the loader had written down the load.  I cannot remember the weight of the cast bullet or the weight of the powder charge, but I do remember it was Unique powder because that was what I was using at the time in my .45 LC.  And I do remember it was a lot less powder than I was using.

I was sitting at a bench facing towards the shooters to my left, talking to a friend.  I watched this guy (found out later it was a young Army Troop) about 40 feet away lower the gun to his right side.  Then slowly raise it to aim at a target that was slightly below him on the ground.  Then he fired and the gun exploded.

During the investigation I was contacted as a witness to the accident.  Had an Army weapons expert tell me about detanation in large capacity cartridges.  When I explained what I had seen this troop do, the Expert called it a classic detonation scenerio.  Powder was at the bullet end of the case.  Primer fired in an empty air space between it and the powder.  When the powder ignited it caused extreamely high pressure, more than the imported Colt .45 clone could handle.  From that point on I always made sure I pointed my .45 at the sky before slowly lowering it to fire.  And I quit using Unique, I use a higher volumne powder such as Blue Dot.  Then Trail Boss came out.
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline Shu

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1484
Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2010, 08:57:37 AM »
The Lyman book shows 12-17 grains of unique for a 400 grain bullet for a 45- 70. Lyman does not normally publish dangerous information.

Most factory cartridges can be shaken and you can hear the powder that is not unusual.

About 8 grains of Unique and a 255 grain bullet for the 45 colt is a standard load. This load can be found in just about any reloading manual. It is not dangerous or risky. Now if the reloader accidentillay double charged which is possible to do with Unique in the 45 colt that would put his pressures up in the 44 mag  range. That would cause a 45 colt clone to open up. The 45 colt will hold about 25 grains of powder depending on bullet.
 
Once you get to a maximum load pressures go up incredibly fast. That extra grain of powder is just not worth the fps.

However if you feel safer with the bulkier powders please use them. You will find no one who is as concerned with your safety as much as you are. :)


Offline Winter Hawk

  • Trade Count: (47)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1947
  • Gender: Male
Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2010, 10:06:25 AM »
Thanks Sourdough, you made the point I was going to bring up.  Volume of the case needs to be filled at least 75% (IIRC) to prevent excess pressures in a cartridge.  Lots of folks use fillers (cream of wheat comes to mind) but I have read where the fillers turned solid and raised pressures also.  Junior Doughty has some articles which refer to this on his "Frugal Outdoorsman" site (http://www.castbullet.com/).

I have heard about this since I started reloading in the mid 1960s.  It is not something new.  Be careful with reduced loads!

-Winter Hawk-
"All you need for happiness is a good gun, a good horse and a good wife." - D. Boone

Offline tacotime

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 279
Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2011, 08:41:10 AM »
Call Hodgdon and ask about their standard rule for reducing H4895 loads.  It is quite liberal, though accuracy may not be all that good on some reduced loads. 

Offline quickdtoo

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43301
  • Gender: Male
Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2011, 08:50:21 AM »
Call Hodgdon and ask about their standard rule for reducing H4895 loads.  It is quite liberal, though accuracy may not be all that good on some reduced loads.  

No need to call, it's on their website, Trail Boss reduced load guidelines are there also.

Tim

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Youth%20Loads.pdf

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline shooter6br

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 93
  • "Keep up the good fight"God bless America
Re: 45-70 reduced loads
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2011, 10:02:39 PM »
10 grains with 300 to 405 g cast  Great load No fillers or wadding