Sarah Palin; better than some realize ...or admit

[Conan The Librarian]

By the way, who is paying Palin to do what she does?

[ironglow]

Thanx Crusty...for posting that info. Seems like alot of that stuff is long over due to be brought into the light.  End stage life is difficult enough to deal with having information and choices hidden from view.  This info could assist alot of folks and relatives during the end phase of life; and possiblely help to perserve estates of soon to be deceased at the behest of the medical industry...good to know your choices beforehand.

Leave it to Palin and alter-ego Beck to come up with the 'death panel' moniker for information we all should freely access when the time comes.  Political motives are always centered around a conquer and divide mentality.

..TM7

    TM;
   What info ?  A bunch of lawyer "new-speak" ?  Where is the information ?  They keep referring back to the original bill, none of which the Dim-ocrats who voted it in ..even read...DUH
     If this idea is such a great idea, why did it's original sponsor want so much to keep it secret and all cloak& dagger stuff ?  http://merriemarie.amplify.com/2010/12/27/shame-rep-earl-blumenauer-and-incentivized-death/
   The idea of killing off the aged or infirm, particularly of the "non-elites", is an old liberal/progressive position...learned from their heroes such as Darwin, Blavatsky and Margaret Sanger, that such should be eliminated.  Their buddies such as Marx, Engel & Stalin referred to such persons a "useless eaters".
 The Democrat governor of Colorado of abou25-30 years ago, Richard Lamm suggested that older people should be willing to die and get out of the way !
  BTW: Richard Lamm is about 75 now..and still kicking  as far as I know !

   I find the liberal/progressive position to be so hypocritical as to be laughable...were it not so sinister and Nazi-like.  Here are their positions as of today:

1) Encourage the old or infirm to "end-it-all..

2) Kill half the babies either before or during birth. (no fair trial)

3) Give the most evil terrorists the benefit of a full-blown New York trial.

4) Don't even suggest that mass murderers, such as John Wayne Gacey, Ted Bundy or The Fort Hood terrorist/murderer, be put to death !

   Now fellows...do those totally stupid positions even begin to pass the "smell test" ?

[ironglow]

By the way, who is paying Palin to do what she does?

Looks like the Koch Brothers corporation, and a few foreign based concerns.

~~~~~~~~
Incidently, governmnet should stay out of our end stage affairs, but if they can bring a little light to the table, particulalry when in concerns their/our own programs at this stage of the game...then they should.

..TM7
.

      TM:
   Even if that were true, which it may well not be...it still beats having the Chinese, Muslim potentates or George Soros own her, as they do other politicians.

[Dee]

Every time this lady is brought up, I ask the question: WHY THEN Did she campaign for McCain's reelection while blasting other RINOS? It is an "OBVIOUS CONTRIDICTION OF CLAIMED PRINCIPLES". Excuses are made, but no one ever answers the question of her blatant double standard. Now another question arises. How presidential is a REALITY SHOW STAR?
A rooster crows his superiority in the chicken yard, but runs with the hens to the hen house, when the fox shows up. I believe her to be a big talker but, a short stepper. Time will tell, but in the end I have no doubt that the shiniest candiate will get the so called pseudo conservative vote, while the TRUE CONSERVATIVE will not be flashy enough for these pseudo conservatives, whom like Palin, talk the talk, but fear the walk.

[Conan The Librarian]

Dee:

Regrettably, I think time already did tell. The McCain example is an excellent one. Giving up the AK governorship is a good example too. I think she did it because there was money to be made.

[Minnesota1]

Going back to the doctors spending a few minutes talking about end of life situations.  If anyone believes that in the future the government wouldn't begin to expand that role is ignorant to the history of our government.  Remember Social Security?  It was initially voluntary and was set at 2% then they took it to courts and to greed:

└ Government Promise

 * At the outset of the Social Security program, the federal government published an informational pamphlet that stated the following with regard to Social Security taxes:

 
"And finally, beginning in 1949, 12 years from now, you and your employer will each pay 3 cents on each dollar you earn, up to $3,000 a year. That is the most you will ever pay.[33]"

This came from justfacts.com.  Now as many of you know the rate is now 12.4% and rising.  The real question is Do you really trust the government not to expand it when facing economical plans?  When they are plotting other schemes to gain power?  Your answer might surprise you.  Look to history and how the government always takes liberty and expands way beyond the lies and deceit they spewed out to sell and initiate the program.  Don't be fooled by the same jackals that have started all the other programs just to now spend us into bankruptcy and slavery to a massive corrupt debt.

[ironglow]

   Remember Lyndon Johnson's "war on poverty" ? Trillions of taxpayer dollars later and we have more poverty than ever...but the dems did manage to break upo mostt of the inner city families and create a whole new, "dependant class" of people.

   Remember when the messiah/king claimed his health care plan would not cost us a "single dime more" ?

  http://scaredmonkeys.com/2010/05/12/surprise-surprise-surprise-cbo-raises-cost-projections-for-obamacare-115-billion-over-next-day-years/

[crustylicious]

This must be the first time some of you have seen how bills are written. They've been "lawyer speak" since time immemorial.
This thread started with the disingenuous use of "death panels" to promote Sarah Palin and as usual once the facts were stated, morphed into the Fe-glimmer deflection shuffle.
Crusty out!

[SwampThing762]

Crustafarian,

I have read the text of the new Medicare rule you posted for all to see.  However, I fail to see where it relates to he "death panels" as referred to in the Obamacare bill.  The discussion of end of life care is already a component of the modern healthcare system.  I was with my mother at a doctor's appointment and they discussed the matter in front of me.  I then completed the requisite paperwork in my doctor's office, as well.   It was also a prevalent practice in the hospital where I worked.  We completed living wills and healthcare surrogate designations at patient's request every day, notarizing the documents as well.

It seems to me that the media outlets have chosen to pick up the term "death panels" in deliberations to get Americans worked up into another frenzy.   The Obamacare "death panels" were to have been commissions (sp?) established to decide on cost effectiveness of late stage care.   

I am not as intransigent in my conservatism as many others on social issues; it may be that I have not lived through the "war on poverty" or the full duration of the Soviet era "cold war".  However, I am a pragmatist.  I think simply that the Obama administration should leave the healthcare system in it current operation, and address the measures that drive the cost of healthcare beyond the reach of most American families.   

Do you not agree?

ST762

[ironglow]

This must be the first time some of you have seen how bills are written. They've been "lawyer speak" since time immemorial.
This thread started with the disingenuous use of "death panels" to promote Sarah Palin and as usual once the facts were stated, morphed into the Fe-glimmer deflection shuffle.
Crusty out!

  Crusty;
  Since you disputed Palin's definition od "deth panel' to describe the newly slipped in rules, I believe Swampthing was actually expecting you to post some contrary evidence against Palin's contention, however you only offered 'doublespeak' no real information which was germain to the discussion...so Palin's claim still stands, since you obviously did not disprove it.
  Dukkiller was correct in that we should all have a final disposition in writing, left with a trusted friend or relative.  However, it appears that the newly-inserted rule still asks that doctors "counsel" such people annually. If they already have made out such documents, why would the government want to insert themselves into these folk's lives on an annual basis ?  ..Just why ?

[nw_hunter]

By the way, who is paying Palin to do what she does?

Looks like the Koch Brothers corporation, and a few foreign based concerns.

~~~~~~~~
Incidently, governmnet should stay out of our end stage affairs, but if they can bring a little light to the table, particulalry when in concerns their/our own programs at this stage of the game...then they should.

..TM7
.

Sarah does displays an Israel flag in her office window............."Just saying"

[ironglow]

TM;
  I really liked your article about Franklin Graham and Sarah Palin...perhaps 10% was actually factual...    The rest being total conjecture by some far out dude in his own blog. He is sadly misinformed concerning the totally orthodox and historically proper form of Christianity embraced by both Franklin Graham and his father, Billy.
      Reading his blog, please note this bird's own description of his "ministry":

  http://thechurchofjesuschrist.us/about-1/

   Notice that he explains in his second paragraph how he is out to correct the church and the world's understanding of it...
   Quite an ambitious little fellow....No ?

[ironglow]

  Some are concerned that Sarah may have had a Star of David decal or or some such thing displayed in her office window.  No surprise; Biblical Christians and Israel have some things in common.  Both are in a sense, beleagured in their own land, pressure is being exerted against both and both believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
  The Star of David strikes no hatred chord in my heart, in fact I rather admire that small (land-wise) nation which has accomplished so very much in just a generation.  Many of those which surround her have been in place for centuries, and while the Israelis have opted for a democratic system...those old nations around her (500 times her land-size) have opted for dictatorships, and political & theological slavery.
   Israel has in it's 62 years as a modern nation, become a leader in science, medicine, electronics and many other disciplines..while the slave states surrounding her have languished, while their leaders do their best to use Israel as a sacapegoat for their selfishness.  While those people go on with their irrational hate, destruction and disruption, Israel continues to advance in the sciences and arts.

       So you think a small Star of David in Sarah's window is bad...what do you think of a group of Commies hanging a Che Guevera pictoral flag in their boss' campaign office ?
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=56293
     

[powderman]

IRONGLOW. Well said Sir. POWDERMAN. 

[SwampThing762]

Crustafarian,

My intention behind the request to
You for the text of the new rule was to have it available for all to read.
The rule makes NO reference to the death panel commissions of the Obamacare bill.  The request was not so much of an expectation of proving a point.   Thank you for posting this rule for both sides of this issue to have correct information.

ST762

[bilmac]

Getting high expense medical cases get off the dole HAS to be part of government health care policy. Obviously the government can't afford to continue prolonging the life of terminal people forever, but modern medicine allows that. As soon as the government got involved in providing health care this was doomed to happen. Somebody has to decide when it is time to "pull the plug". If government is paying the bills, then they will have to work themselves into that position, or the country will go bankrupt.

Death panels were inevitable as soon as the country decided that we wanted the Government to pay for our health care. This is the 800 pound gorilla that no one wants to face. Either we start paying for our own health care again, or if we want to let the government pay, then they are going to have to decide when to stop paying.

[jimster]

Death panels were inevitable as soon as the country decided that we wanted the Government to pay for our health care. This is the 800 pound gorilla that no one wants to face. Either we start paying for our own health care again, or if we want to let the government pay, then they are going to have to decide when to stop paying

.

Pretty much it in a nutshell.  I was on one of the "death panels" myself..they must exist. Acutally they existed already, just without government intervention.  In our case, we decided to "pull the plug", a couple of doctors wanted to NOT do this...we did not think that was logical, nor did the patient.  In that case the hospital would have received many thousands of dollars more if we would have done what the doctors wanted.  Same end result for the patient.

In the original house bill there was also a deal where the living will was to be over-rode by the government as well...if need be....do not know what is in the final health care bill, far as I know they are still writing it...  

The orginal house bill was so corrupt I do not wish to read any more legislation....but I am quite sure we can't trust any legislation, nor can we trust we think we know all that is in this health care bill...nor can we trust it will be Interpreted the way we might want when the time comes.

For anyone here that thinks they trust the government with anything, let alone health care legisaltion...they are fooling themselves...and will always be fooled, there is no hope for people who trust this government, or the legislation that they write.

As the quote above points out....once you decide your government will "pay" or run things...your always screwed....not only will you pay more and get less...there will be power over you.

[DDZ]

Death panels were inevitable as soon as the country decided that we wanted the Government to pay for our health care. This is the 800 pound gorilla that no one wants to face. Either we start paying for our own health care again, or if we want to let the government pay, then they are going to have to decide when to stop paying

.

The orginal house bill was so corrupt I do not wish to read any more legislation....but I am quite sure we can't trust any legislation, nor can we trust we think we know all that is in this health care bill...nor can we trust it will be Interpreted the way we might want when the time comes.

For anyone here that thinks they trust the government with anything, let alone health care legisaltion...they are fooling themselves...and will always be fooled, there is no hope for people who trust this government, or the legislation that they write.

As the quote above points out....once you decide your government will "pay" or run things...your always screwed....not only will you pay more and get less...there will be power over you.

Amen to that!
It amazes me the people that put so much trust in government, when corruption and deceit have run rampant in government. Just because they write or say something doesn't mean they are going to hold to it. They are nothing but a bunch of deceitful liars.

They guaranteed to cut health care costs with this bill, and the only way they will do it, is to deny health care. I guess as long as there are enough sheep that believe the fairy tales, we will continue to have more and more government control in our lives.   

[jimster]

Amen to that!
It amazes me the people that put so much trust in government, when corruption and deceit have run rampant in government.

It does not amaze me anymore...Obama was elected, that says it all, nothing is a surprise from here on in.

The people on this site that are sticking up for the health care legislation and think they know what's in it, obviously have been screwd so many times they actually like it now...it's the only explaination I can think of.  When the explainations they posted goes south down the road somewhere, they will simply blame it on the political party that they are NOT in...easy as pie...but they won't refer to what they posted up there...that will be long gone...

Take my word for it....the government is not doing anything to make things better, cheaper, or keep someone alive longer. Once they get their fingers in the pie, everything, including somebodys living will, is all up in the air if government is involved.  So go ahead and make fun of the term death panel if they like...these are real and in place right now...only difference is, somebody else will be on/in this panel/room besides family and doctor...and "hep" you make your decision, either way. Count on it....same as you count on anything else the government get their fingers in.

[DDZ]

You are right Jimster. The surprises have come to an end for me also. I guess its just hard for me to comprehend how many Americans have fallen asleep at the wheel. Its very sad to see this country taking the coarse its taking. I still do like to have hopes for this great nation to turn around and go the opposite way, but those hopes keep getting dimmer as time goes on. 

I was kind of thinking the same thing about your comment that people have been screwed so many times that they like it. Too add to that I kind of think that many like having government telling them how to live, and taking care of them, instead of living free and putting forth the effort to live how they want to, and provide for themselves. Kind of like "I'm lazy, so you call the shots and take care of me".   

[powderman]

The people on this site that are sticking up for the health care legislation and think they know what's in it, obviously have been screwd so many times they actually like it now.



JIMSTER. HEH, a good way to look at it. POWDERMAN. 

[Pass Lake]

I have a guy in my town who is suffering from liver failure.  He's 57 years old and a good guy.  I played on some ball teams with him in my youthful years.  His wife ran off with an attorney when he was around 30 and he has remainded unmarried since.  They had a daughter who is now a teacher.  He has worked at the local dairy since he was 18(39 years). He needs a liver transplant within a year or he will die.  If his illness causes him to not work for 30 days he loses his job and will lose his insurance. He will not be able to keep working.  Thanks to  Federal law he can get COBRA, but than will have to pay the entire premium out of pocket (close to $1,000/mo.)  Mayo Clinic says he has to pay $25,000 up front to get a transplant.  He was currently making $15/hr.  It is hard to save earning that amount of money. You have to wash many cars and sell many cakes to raise $25,000.  In 2010, the CEO of UnitedHealth was paid $109 million.   The unfortunate have always had "death panels".

[ironglow]

  So, back to the original post;
    When the Obamacare mess was being voted upon (before it's backers even read it), Sarah said the Dems would be including death panels in their new plan.  The Dems in effect then said Sarah is dead wrong, "no way that will happen".
     Now we have death panels...
 
    So, back to the original question...   Is Sarah a prophet, or is she just a lot smarter and more perceptive than many want to admit ?

        And were the Dems as stupid as they look, having voted into law something they DIDN'T EVEN READ ?  Or were they just lying all along ?

[bilmac]

You can tell when a Democrat is lying, it's whenever his lips are moving.  ORiely ought to have his body language expert analyze that.

[DDZ]

  So, back to the original post;
    When the Obamacare mess was being voted upon (before it's backers even read it), Sarah said the Dems would be including death panels in their new plan.  The Dems in effect then said Sarah is dead wrong, "no way that will happen".
     Now we have death panels...
 
    So, back to the original question...   Is Sarah a prophet, or is she just a lot smarter and more perceptive than many want to admit ?

        And were the Dems as stupid as they look, having voted into law something they DIDN'T EVEN READ ?  Or were they just lying all along ?

Yes, Sarah is smarter than most will ever admit. You really don't have to know much about Sarah to know what kind of person she is. All you have to do is look at what type of people hate her, and how much hate is directed her way. That alone will tell the story.

They didn't have to read the bill. They knew that there was going to be denial of care to the old, or anyone else deemed unworthy of health care. Its the only way possible for them to keep their promise of lower costs. They were lying, because they knew that people would be so fixated on the Free health care part, that they would not pay any attention to the rest of it.  The Dems know that the majority of their supporters are clueless, so they just lied about the death panels part, knowing they would be believed.

[jhm]

     I will NEVER believe that the DEMS. didnt know what was in the bill, I believe that they had taken every word apart in the bill and BUILT it to be their dream bill, never trust a dem. that says he isnt exactly sure what the bill will do in the future.  Dont fund it STARVE the bill and many others let alot of the give aways go to the end of their time.   Jim

[powderman]

And were the Dems as stupid as they look, having voted into law something they DIDN'T EVEN READ ?  Or were they just lying all along ?



IG. Both. They voted for it because their messiah said to. POWDERMAN.