Kaboom - cira 1961 or so

[Cat Whisperer]

Took a few days going through my Dad's stuff in Atlanta (he passed about 10 years ago and my StepMother last July) before the house is sold in the spring.  Made a find - something I've been looking for now for some decades.

These pictures will raise more questions than can be answered.

We (us kids) loved shooting the cannon, so this was a warm up on one 3rd of July.

Obviously too much of something - packing, powder - can't go back and ask.

1" bore, 3" OD.

All of us were staning BEHIND the canon - best place considering.

THere were 1" pieces that cut the turf for 70 of my 1 meter paces.

Only two small injuries - my brother caught a microscop8ic piece in his shoulder - the operated 3 tiems and never found  it.   I caught a pencil lead size 1/8" long in my finger and found out about it  3 YEARS later when it worked itself out.

Som will say luck, I say God's grace for our stupidity. 

[Double D]

Tim,

What are the chances that was done with smokeless powder?

[Cat Whisperer]

Tim,

What are the chances that was done with smokeless powder?

Zero.  (But that would have done it.  This was not the first shot.)

It was from some 'blasting powder' used at the granite quary - sodium instead of potasium - for less shock so as not to shatter the granite - packaged conveniently in a quart mason jar.

[Ex 49'er]

I'd say that the angels earned their pay that day!!!!

[dominick]

  Is that dark area of the breech nearest the bore where it began to fail several shots earlier?

[Cat Whisperer]

I'd say that the angels earned their pay that day!!!!

YUP   

[Cat Whisperer]

  Is that dark area of the breech nearest the bore where it began to fail several shots earlier?

I would draw that conclusion.  Maybe started years or decades before.

[Cat Whisperer]

That was a good observation, Dom.   

The cannon was around since at least the 1930's.  No telling of how well or IF it was cleaned after use early on.

The barrel WAS about 18" long.  One chunk 3/4 x 3/4 x 1-1/2 went through the only open window in the car - tore up the headliner and put a serious dent in the roof just in front of the rear windshield.

[VA Rifleman]

Barrel lined?

[seacoastartillery]

     Before seeing your pics I was inclined to believe the 'old wives tale' about how bronze is supposed to rip and tear and NOT to fragment as this cannon did.  Guess not!!!  It's important to know that this was ONLY a salute charge, A BLANK CHARGE, and not a projectile loading.  That's the way I read your comments, Tim.     Is that correct??

Tracy & Mike

[Cat Whisperer]

Barrel lined?

Not any more.  (Nor to begin with.     )

[Cat Whisperer]

     Before seeing your pics I was inclined to believe the 'old wives tale' about how bronze is supposed to rip and tear and NOT to fragment as this cannon did.  Guess not!!!  It's important to know that this was ONLY a salute charge, A BLANK CHARGE, and not a projectile loading.  That's the way I read your comments, Tim.     Is that correct??

Tracy & Mike

Yes, a 'blank' charge with newspaper packing.  Hmmmm.  Looong time ago. 

(This is why I've said often, one needs to know when you light the fuse whether it's a cannon or a bomb.    )

[Double D]

     Before seeing your pics I was inclined to believe the 'old wives tale' about how bronze is supposed to rip and tear and NOT to fragment as this cannon did.  Guess not!!!  It's important to know that this was ONLY a salute charge, A BLANK CHARGE, and not a projectile loading.  That's the way I read your comments, Tim.     Is that correct??

Tracy & Mike

When rip and tear reaches its limits of elasticity what is left but fragments...sure looks like like elongation limits were exceeded, but absent scientific analysis and testing who knows.

[Cat Whisperer]

     Before seeing your pics I was inclined to believe the 'old wives tale' about how bronze is supposed to rip and tear and NOT to fragment as this cannon did.  Guess not!!!  It's important to know that this was ONLY a salute charge, A BLANK CHARGE, and not a projectile loading.  That's the way I read your comments, Tim.     Is that correct??

Tracy & Mike

When rip and tear reaches its limits of elasticity what is left but fragments...sure looks like like elongation limits were exceeded, but absent scientific analysis and testing who knows.

I'm certain it ripped and tore and was just at the beginning of the excessive pressure.

[Double D]

My first impression was brittle fragmentation....then I noticed what appears to be the vent at the top of the breech which looks like it  expanded to failure and not fragmented....are these pictures of the remaining fragments after the failure, or are these pictures of the fragments that you just just took after finding the them in your dad's estate?

Do we have  a destructive test analyst in our midst?

Tim, is that brass or bronze?

[Cat Whisperer]

This is the only piece left.

Yes, it looks like it broke along fracture lines and yet one large piece next to the vent hung on ....

As Dom pointed out - the darkened area was likely an old injury from yesteryear.

The vent was large enough for standard dynomite fuse.  (7/32 dia ?)

[GGaskill]

Radial vents are always a place of relative weakness.  Old military muzzleloaders were taken out of service before the vent would become a point of failure.

[dan610324]

is it really a bronze barrel ??  or could it be brass ??
it looks a little bit too yellow for me to be bronze that havent been claned or polished for at least 50 years
I think it should be a little more to brown in color , but it might be because of light or flash also
the dark area is without any doubt an older crack that been filled with soot and other residues during firing it
the bottom of the bore seem to be totaly flat , and the crack seem to have started in the corner between the bore wall and the flat bottom
that show how important design is for a cannon barrel
Ive never seen a bronze barrel shatter like that

[seacoastartillery]

   Tim,   Could you please let everyone know, without equivocation, that a BLANK charge caused this cannon's destruction?  Reading these postings of the past 4 years, I get the impression that quite a few board members don't believe that blanks have much pressure or are capable of what your picture showed.  That could possibly be a deadly assumption.

Thanks,

Tracy

[Double D]

   Tim,   Could you please let everyone know, without equivocation, that a BLANK charge caused this cannon's destruction?  Reading these postings of the past 4 years, I get the impression that quite a few board members don't believe that blanks have much pressure or are capable of what your picture showed.  That could possibly be a deadly assumption.

Thanks,

Tracy

I second tracy's question was this a blank charge?

[Cat Whisperer]

On the outside the color is a deep brown in most places, more brass/bronze in others.  I've never know it to have been polished (since 1957 or so anyway - and I'm sure it wasn't used for some 20 years before that).

The bottom of the bore is a hemisphere -  might not show well in the pix.

The vent looks quite enlarged at the bottom too.

[Cat Whisperer]

  Tim,   Could you please let everyone know, without equivocation, that a BLANK charge caused this cannon's destruction?  Reading these postings of the past 4 years, I get the impression that quite a few board members don't believe that blanks have much pressure or are capable of what your picture showed.  That could possibly be a deadly assumption.
Thanks,
Tracy

I second tracy's question was this a blank charge?

And I will say again, it had powder and newspaper.  NO bullet.

I've NEVER seen, nor heard of  a bullet fired from this cannon.

[Cat Whisperer]

Now the question is:  could this have occurred with a nominal load - like (most) all of those prior - since the darkened area indicates prior fracturing.

That raises a serious issue - that of relying on using 'moderate' charges and FEELING safe.

And, then, another question, could the cracks have been detected using a wire 'feeler' or other simple techinques or would it have taken xray technology?

[Zulu]

You can't be too hard on yourself.  You were 14.
Could x-ray technology in 1961 have helped?  Who even had access to stuff like that back then?
Zulu

[dominick]

I think that generally bronze has a better change of ripping and tearing than any other metal.  Tim's barrel definitely proves there are exceptions to that rule.  The Gettysburg Napoleon is a good example of one that tore along the length of the barrel which would be the weakest line in any barrel.

[Cat Whisperer]

You can't be too hard on yourself.  You were 14.
Could x-ray technology in 1961 have helped?  Who even had access to stuff like that back then?
Zulu

I raise the questions, not being hard on myself, but to KNOW how to assure safety.

(I have a cast iron Napoleon, for example ....)

[Cat Whisperer]

I think that generally bronze has a better change of ripping and tearing than any other metal.  Tim's barrel definitely proves there are exceptions to that rule.  The Gettysburg Napoleon is a good example of one that tore along the length of the barrel which would be the weakest line in any barrel.

Agree with that being the weakest area.  In mine it's interesting that there is blackness (indicating prior fractures/corrosion) all the way around AND the deep cracks into the hemispherical end.

[dominick]

Is this the rear most part of the bore? [arrows]  This edge looks like a stress riser.

[Cat Whisperer]

Yes, and that was my thought too!!

Note the id of the vent top and bottom.

[Double D]

Now the question is:  could this have occurred with a nominal load - like (most) all of those prior - since the darkened area indicates prior fracturing.

That raises a serious issue - that of relying on using 'moderate' charges and FEELING safe.

And, then, another question, could the cracks have been detected using a wire 'feeler' or other simple techinques or would it have taken xray technology?

I don't think the darkened  area is a definitive indication of prior fracturing, Sooting could be a by product acquired as the metal failed.