240 v. 280 v. 300+ .44 mag hardcast

[troglodyte]

Please bear with me.  I'm new to this big bore hard cast stuff.  I load for my .41 but I keep it to plinking levels with a 210 swc bought off the shelf over a few grains of Unique.  I haven't shot a full-house magnum in a long time and don't particularly see the need to if I don't have to.  Since recently acquiring a .44 mag. Super Blackhawk Hunter I'm anxious to find a good load for it. 

From hours of reading on this and other sites I see a couple of general trends in hard cast for the .44 mag.

The first is to use a 240-250 gr. Keith or FN bullet for deer, hogs, and even black bear and whatever else you want to throw in this "medium" class.

The other trend is to use a 300+ FN/SWC.

It seems that most are satisfied with a MV of 1000-1100 FPS and gas checks are generally not needed at these velocity with hard cast but some sneak up into the 1300s with the lighter bullets.

I don't see a lot in between in the 260-280 range.  Why is this? 

I realize that a lot will depend on what my gun likes (and I've even found out I have to determine the "real" bore size to get the right size bullet) but is there a significant difference in these bullet's downrange performance on deer/hog?  I'm not after hogzilla and WTs and Mulies aren't that tough but I see some saying a 240gr. will do fine but others touting that if it isn't at least 300 gr. then why bother.

This is all very confusing to my simple mind.  While I often subscribe to bigger is better I also realize that bigger is not always best.

Now I'm not a recoil wuss but at the same time I don't see any need to punish myself anymore than necessary.  Conventional wisdom tells me that a heavier bullet is going to produce more recoil at the same velocity than a lighter bullet but that recoil may also be perceived as more of a push than a snap (i.e. .45acp v. .40S&W).  Neither of which may be unpleasant at these velocities, but I don't know that for a fact.  I'd like to find a load that is tolerable to shoot more than a few times specifically with the mind to actually get out and practice with the loads.  I would rather not have my session be 3 rounds and I'm sore for a week. 

I do see the "240/2400(110/296)/1000fps" recipe more often so I'm thinking there must be something to this.  I happen to have some 2400 so this peaks my interest.  Is this truly an "all-purpose" load for all of us mere mortals that aren't hunting Kodiaks or cape buffalo?  (This ought to stir things up even though that is not my intention).  I know that purists (and not so purists) hate the term "all-purpose" but I really like all purpose loads and firearms.  I like the idea that a single load or firearm will be able to do a lot of things adequately.  Sure it may be boring but I order the same thing every Sunday at lunch too. 

So that gets me to thinking about a 260 -280 gr bullet sitting on top of about 17.5-18 grains of 2400 would put me around the 1000 FPS "sweetspot"; This coming from online research and extrapolating from a couple of reloading manuals.  This may be way more than enough for deer and too light for the biggest pigs but it seems like it would be a good middle-of-the-road all purpose load. 

I know I'm probably over-thinking this but I'd rather do it now and find a decent load and not have to think about it again unless I really want to. 

What do you think?  Do I just stick with the 240s because they will be fine?  Do I thump with the 300s because I want them to be more dead?  Or do I follow my likely flawed reasoning and load up on 260s or 280s (specifically LBT WFN)? 

And please correct any of my foolish thinking or reasoning.  This .44 mag stuff is all new to me.

[demented]

 Anything short of a Grizzly, a hard cast FP 240 will kill at 900-1000 fps as well as any weight or speed.  Shoot-throughs are usual at normal pistol ranges, doesn't really matter if its a pass thru with a 240 or a 300 that I can tell.  If I need more speed, I'll go with a jacketed bullet and push hell out of it.  My opinions concerning Grizzly's as well as Moose or Elk are just my guess, I've never hunted these big critters, just deer.  I do have a friend in Nevada that hunts mountain lions, he uses a Blackhawk .45 with a 250 cast flat point moving 900 fps, he says this will drop a cat as fast as anything he's used-rifles included.   

[Lloyd Smale]

I shoot all the bullet weights and to me they all have there purpose. Mostly i shoot in a gun the bullet it shoots the best. But if im going out after something bigger then 300 lbs with a 44 i tend to gravitate to the heavys. Are they needed? i dont know but they sure dont hurt. I probably shoot more bullets in the 280 grain weight class then any in the 44s. they tend to shoot well and are a good compromise. I have shot animals as large as a 1000lb buffalo with 240s but it was because the opertunity presented itself and thats what i had on me. If i was planning to hunt that same buffalo i would have no doubt had 300s or heavier loaded. But bottom line is the lighter bullet did just fine in that instance

[cbourbeau32]

Trog, this is one of the best worded most thorough questions I have read on GB lately. I look forward to the rest of the experts answers as they come in as I'm kind of wondering along the same lines except for I load the 41 mag.
Charlie

[doghawg]

 I'd suggest getting some Lyman 429421's (about 250 gr.) or 429244's (gas checked and about 255 gr.) from any good bullet casting outfit and loading them over the 17.5 to 18 gr. of 2400 charge that you mentioned. Those loads will run around 1200 fps or more depending on your gun and barrel length and have given fine accuracy in my .44's.

[siamese4570]

Trog: Here is my experience with this.  I was loading the Lee 310 FP bullet to about 1200 fps.  In checking the penetration thru water milk jugs, this load shot thru 12 jugs.  My 45-70 with the gould 330 hp bullet stopped in the sixth jug.  I decided that I didn't need this much penetration and went to the 250 gr swc.  Did keep the Lee mold just in case Godzilla ever crawls back out of the ocean!

Siamese4570

[troglodyte]

Yep, I think I'll go with a 250ish WFN and work up something my gun likes.  I appreciate all the input.

[Ak.Hiker]

Graybeard has posted a 44 Magnum load several times with a 240 grain bullet using either 296 or H-110. You could do a search or he may post it again. 20 grains of 2400 with a 240 or 250 hardcast runs good in both of my 44 Magnums.

[I make oil]

Troglodyte, I am really enjoying reading you post.  As cbourbeau32 said very well written.  These are my thoughts on the subject.

For Hunting with the .44 I shoot a Winchester 240g JSP as I posted previously.  For one because I have a bunch and for two because they work very well.  I have an older SBH scoped with Pachmyer grips a Ruger Carbine and a Marlin Lever action.  All feed these rounds with no problem and are accurate.  Recoil is not really an issue.  My wife shoots the SBH all the time and she is not a big woman.  The extra weight of the scope and the Pachmyer's really do make it a pussycat.  

I don't really understand the reason for shooting cast bullets unless you shoot alot.  I do shoot them ocassionially for practice but really don't see the reason to hunt with them.  I have killed over 60 hogs with .44's and every one died fine with my JSP's.  I have only killed 2 deer with them but that's because I don't usually hunt deer with my .44's.  Not that I don't think it will do the job, but most of my deer hunting is done from elevated blinds in the marsh and shots can be up to 200 yards sometimes.  If I am limited in the distance of my shots to less than 100 yards due to the location I bring the .44 Mag.

My son hunts deer and hogs with 120g bullets from a 7mm08 and they die just fine.  My other son hunts with a .243 and 100g Rem Corelocks and they die just fine with that as well.  I hunt with a TC 7/30 Waters shooting 120g bullets and it kills fine.  My point is I think a 240g bullet is GREAT for any of the hunting a person in the lower 48 is planning on doing.  The only way I would shoot any bigger bullet is from a big bore rifle for Elk, Moose, Bear etc.  For the places where I hunt and the critter I kill a .44 Mag shooting 240g JSP is perfect.

Just my opinion.  Others on here probably have more experience than I do.  But heck I would shoot a deer with a .223 so what do I know. LOL

[Lloyd Smale]

no doubt what you are using will work great on deer and probably smaller blackbear and hogs. Ive seen jacketed 44 bullets fail miserably on larger bear and hogs though. Especially lighter hollow points

Troglodyte, I am really enjoying reading you post.  As cbourbeau32 said very well written.  These are my thoughts on the subject.

For Hunting with the .44 I shoot a Winchester 240g JSP as I posted previously.  For one because I have a bunch and for two because they work very well.  I have an older SBH scoped with Pachmyer grips a Ruger Carbine and a Marlin Lever action.  All feed these rounds with no problem and are accurate.  Recoil is not really an issue.  My wife shoots the SBH all the time and she is not a big woman.  The extra weight of the scope and the Pachmyer's really do make it a pussycat.  

I don't really understand the reason for shooting cast bullets unless you shoot alot.  I do shoot them ocassionially for practice but really don't see the reason to hunt with them.  I have killed over 60 hogs with .44's and every one died fine with my JSP's.  I have only killed 2 deer with them but that's because I don't usually hunt deer with my .44's.  Not that I don't think it will do the job, but most of my deer hunting is done from elevated blinds in the marsh and shots can be up to 200 yards sometimes.  If I am limited in the distance of my shots to less than 100 yards due to the location I bring the .44 Mag.

My son hunts deer and hogs with 120g bullets from a 7mm08 and they die just fine.  My other son hunts with a .243 and 100g Rem Corelocks and they die just fine with that as well.  I hunt with a TC 7/30 Waters shooting 120g bullets and it kills fine.  My point is I think a 240g bullet is GREAT for any of the hunting a person in the lower 48 is planning on doing.  The only way I would shoot any bigger bullet is from a big bore rifle for Elk, Moose, Bear etc.  For the places where I hunt and the critter I kill a .44 Mag shooting 240g JSP is perfect.

Just my opinion.  Others on here probably have more experience than I do.  But heck I would shoot a deer with a .223 so what do I know. LOL

[I make oil]

I agree on the light jacket hollow points failing.  I shot a 200# sow with a Federal .44 Mag Hydroshock and it was not good.  Not good at all.  Expoloded against her side made an ugly hole on the entry and did not go anywhere.  Yes she died but not right there.  Now a JSP is a differnt thing all together.  Holds together well good penetrationi and makes big holes.

Again, just my opinon.  As I have said I don't have lots of experience with cast bullets.  Will have to buy some this summer and load some up to try out. 

[S.S.]

23.5 grains of H110 behind a .240gr LSWC or JHP is about
the only load I use in .44 mag anymore. does everything I
have ever asked of it.

[Redhawk1]

I shoot all the bullet weights and to me they all have there purpose. Mostly i shoot in a gun the bullet it shoots the best. But if im going out after something bigger then 300 lbs with a 44 i tend to gravitate to the heavys. Are they needed? i dont know but they sure dont hurt. I probably shoot more bullets in the 280 grain weight class then any in the 44s. they tend to shoot well and are a good compromise. I have shot animals as large as a 1000lb buffalo with 240s but it was because the opertunity presented itself and thats what i had on me. If i was planning to hunt that same buffalo i would have no doubt had 300s or heavier loaded. But bottom line is the lighter bullet did just fine in that instance

Well said Lloyd!

[Larry Gibson]

23.5 grains of H110 behind a .240gr LSWC or JHP is about
the only load I use in .44 mag anymore. does everything I
have ever asked of it.

Pretty much my useage also except for cast I favor the Lyman 429244 GC bullet cast soft and HP'd.  It gves all the penetration needed at 1400+ fps out of 6"+ revolvers.  Using the lighter weight very fast expanding HPs on larger, tougher game and having them fail is a fault of the shooter not not the bullet.  Denegrating the use of all SP/HPs because you've seen the wrong one used doesn't make much sense to me.  I've seen to much success with 240 -250 gr SP/HPs in over 42 years experience with the .44 magnum to discredit their use on deer, elk, caribou, bears or hogs.

Larry Gibson 

[myronman3]

my two favorite 44 bullets are the lyman 421429, and a mold from veral that drops them out @ 280 grains.    i have fiddled with other bullets, and extensively with the lee 310 gr, but i settled on the two mentioned above for all my 44 shooting needs.    the reasons being that they work well and shoot accurately in all my 44's, including the 44 rifles.     the 310 grain is fun, but it doesnt shoot worth beans in the rifles. 

[Fire Fox]

My dad ( now dead from cancer) and I have dispatched two Asian Buffalo with 44mags and two shots each using the 275 gr Precision cast bullet over 21 gr of H2400. Mine was extremely upset because of being wounded( Gut shot) by the other person in our party by a 375 H &h mag rifle. My first shot was through the shoulder and broke something important. The second was the finish shot through the neck ( close range) breaking it. I prefer the 300 gr cast but have found that the 275 hard cast work well if that is all you have.  Hope this helps.


By the way my dad was 85 and used a single action hunter and the same placement of shots as me. He had shot a 44 mag for 40 years and knew how to use it and had faith in it.

[anachronism]

I recently purchased a used Mountain Molds 300 gr mould from an auction site for my S&W 629. It was more weight than I wanted, but the price was irresistable. Anyway, when I received it, I discovered (happily) that it drops a 280 gr bullet with 50/50 WW/lino. I just did my research, and decided to start with an unlikely load of 10.0 gr of Unique. This should give me approximately 950-1000 fps, which is my goal. I want to keep the velocity down a bit because my 629 is an older one, and doesn't have the updated lock work. I've seen 10.0 gr of Unique listed as a safe load for 300 gr cast bullets, and its right in the upper middle range for a 275 gr cast, according to Lymans data. If it will help, Lyman used to offer a 275 gr mould, (429640), and there is loading data still available for it. I'm also going to load a batch with 2400, to see which I like best. I have not fired my Unique load yet, but should be able to in the next few days. I'll let you know how it turns out.

[drdougrx]

For ME!  I like the heavy for caliber bullets and the penetration that comes with them.  That doesn't mean that I don't think a 240gr HC or HP will not kill deer or even hogs or blackbear.  I killed a 400lb hog with 6" SW29 using the standard 240gr Hornady XTP and a H110 just fine.   BUT...I really want through and through penetration so I use the heavies generally.  That means 187gr HC for the 357, 250gr HC for my 41, 300gr HC for my 44s, and 370gr HC for my 480.  Yes...there are even heavier in all calibers, these are heavy enough for me and also give me the velocity that I desire.  If the bullet is constructed properly and the animal hunted isn't too off the charts with regard to size....they all work IMHO.

BTW...I have hundreds of 300gr WFNGC from Cast Performance.  If I had the same bullet in 280gr to work with, I'd be just as happy!