Anybody try Hdy Superformance in .35 Whelen yet?

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I saw that Hornady's new Superformance line is offering a .35 Whelen load.

200 grain SP starting out over 2900 fps.  That's 250 fps better than the original Whelen factory load by Mean Green (aka Remington). 

Just wondering if this would be a suitable do-all load or if it is a more specialized round.  Deer? Elk? Moose? or all three?

[Harry Snippe]

I think the Whelan as is is quite fine the way it is now for moose , bear or deer as hunted by most people in the east any how . If you placed your shot , How much more powder do you need to make it more dead than it already is .
That extra 250 FPS might make a difference where moose have 79 " spreads and the bear are not our 250 LB' pound average blackies .

[Graybeard]

I like the 200 grain round nose fine for a .35 Remington but when stepping up to the .35 Whelen I think that's a bit light especially for larger game. Unless that is a bonded bullet it wouldn't interest me for game larger or tougher than deer.

I'd take the Nosler 225 AB or PT or even the 250 PT on larger tougher game. Nosler factor loads give pretty much the same velocity levels that Hornady Super Performance ammo does. It's far from cheap but all of it I have shot is some mighty fine ammo.

Hornady's bullet choice is the only compalint I have about that load. If they'd step up with a 225 AB using same powder technology they'd have a real winner.

[shot1]

Also don't believe the advertised velocities until you shoot them in your weapon over a chrno. They get their velocities from a tight chambered long barreled pressure gun which ups the velocity quite a bit over a standard hunting rifle.

[drdougrx]

I'm skeptical about these powders and the advertized vel.  If I can get some ammo, I'll run it through my chrono in the spring.  In the meantime, I'm working with 59-62 gr of RL-15 and 225gr Sierra GK for practice and the AB for hunting (actually...just usung what I have until I can get some AB 2nds).  I was hoping for vel in the mid-high 2700... too optomistic I think even from my 24" RemCDL.

[quickdtoo]

I suspect the 35 Whelen 200gr offering is for the Mississippi "primitive" deer hunters, much the same as the previous Lite Mag ammo in 35 Whelen was, it was only available in certain markets. FWIW, Double Tap lists their 200gr TSX at 2850fps from a 24" barrel Rem 700.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,185143.msg1098910698.html#msg1098910698

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_46&products_id=173

[Drilling Man]

I like the 200 grain round nose fine for a .35 Remington but when stepping up to the .35 Whelen I think that's a bit light especially for larger game. Unless that is a bonded bullet it wouldn't interest me for game larger or tougher than deer.

I'd take the Nosler 225 AB or PT or even the 250 PT on larger tougher game. Nosler factor loads give pretty much the same velocity levels that Hornady Super Performance ammo does. It's far from cheap but all of it I have shot is some mighty fine ammo.

Hornady's bullet choice is the only compalint I have about that load. If they'd step up with a 225 AB using same powder technology they'd have a real winner.

  I agree...  std. 200 grain 35 cal bullets didn't give me near enough penetration in the few moose i shot with the 350 Rem. Mag's that i had...  Although better, i wasn't completely happy with the 250's on tough shots, so adding more velocity, will only make it worse...

  DM

[Graybeard]

Don't waste too much time doubting Hornady's velocity claims. Their ammo comes closer to matching what they say than any other brand. You might fall a bit short in 20" or 22" barrels but in 24" or 26" barrels my Oehler P35 has always told me I was getting what they claimed.

The powders they are using in the old Light Mag and newer Super Performance ammo really is delivering the velocity and they are some of the most accurate ammo out there. I just wish they'd use premium bullets more.

[drdougrx]

So can we actually buy this powder to load with???  Is it Superformance???

[quickdtoo]

Yup!   http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=00034HSP1
Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,213981.msg1099149103.html#msg1099149103

http://www.hodgdon.com/new_prod.html

[nomosendero]

Hornady Superformance has some really neat offerings for a factory ammo shooter. For example, the 300WM
150GMX load would be hard to match for a reloader & would be a wicked Antelope/Deer load & the same could
be said about the 130gr 270 & sev. others. But this one has market appeal to a few maybe, that's about it.

This load brings nothing to the table that I can see, pretty much counter to what I would look for in
35 Whelen ammo. I am not real high on short for caliber cup & core bullets & esp. for a round which may
be used for larger than Deer animals.

I agree with Tim that they may have "primative" hunters in mind, but unless the original poster is looking
at hauling this rifle from WI to MS & only hunting Deer this is a mute point.

Yes it will kill Whitetails, but even for that I don't see the advantage. Ammo companies know vel. sells,
initial vel. that is & even a small diff is carefully viewed by a novice hunter with little else considered. With
this blunt, short for caliber bullet the vel. sheds in a hurry. For comparison I will give the link for this stuff,
compared to a Federal 225 TBBC load. To me, I look at this round a medium range round, 300yd & change for
most people, a little further if you really shoot alot. Would you give up 25 grs of wt. with a better bullet for
a 1.6" diff. in drop at 300 yds., not to mention the 225 will have less wind drift?

http://www.hornady.com/store/35-Whelen-200-GR-SP-Superformance/

http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/rifle.aspx?id=329

In addition to Deer, the OP asked about the possibility of this being a do-it-all load. Again, it would work for Deer,
even though with no worthwhile advantages, but no way would I use it for Moose or Bear or Elk. I think DM's
advise was spot on there. This bullet only has a SD of .223, no thanks.

You might want to look at reviews for the Federal load. Whitetails up to large African game was listed with
a 5 star rating straight across.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=660965#productTabReviews

For a reloader I would not be afraid of several cup & core in the 225-250gr. range, but would lean toward a
225 Part/Acc or 225 TSX.

Good luck

[35Waylon]

I would like to see Hornady offer a 250 grain in the SST bullet.  That would be a winner for sure!

[Dinny]

Anyone willing to pull the bullet and place a 225 gr in there?

Thanks, Dinny

[nomosendero]

 

I know you were kidding, but it would do well to ask Hornady about pressures with that trick! 
 

Of course if you can roll your own, you could just work up a good load with the right bullet to begin with. 

[Dinny]

IF the bullet weights were reversed, I wouldn't put too much thought into switching bullets. We know, from our reloading experiences, that lighter bullets usually contain more powder. For that reason, I must agree, a phone call or email to Hornady would be in order.

Thanks, Dinny

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

OK.  So it's the fact that the bullet is non-premium that limits the applications.  It seems like 200 grain would be sufficient for elk, but perhaps not an elk at 30 yards with a bullet traveling at 2900 fps.
 
What is point-blank range of the 200 grain bullet at 2900 fps vs. say a 225 AB starting at 2700 fps?

[nomosendero]

Well, Hornady says that with this Superformance load @ 2910 & 200yd. zero, you would have:
 
-8.6 at 300 & -55.0" at 500
 
-8.7 at 300 & -51.2" at 500 with Accubond due to far greater BC
 
-8.6 at 300 & -50.6" at 500 with Partition, in this case, the Partition has a better BC, odd but true. 
And the funny thing is trajectory difference is the smallest difference, in all other ways a 225 @ 2700 blows it away.
 
You can try different loads yourself here:  www.biggameinfo.com
 
This is why I had my little rant in my first post, they used a little blunt bullet because muzzle vel. sells, but with a poor BC it doesn't mean squat down range. Of course it will kill a Deer, but nothing "Superformance" about this load, even though some of there other loads are very good.
 
In all the other performance comparisons, it gets much worse. The Horn. is a cup & core bullet with a low SD, plus designed for lower than 2900MV., so yes, up close could be a big problem for larger than Deer animals, the SD is virtually the same as a 150 gr. 30 cal. The 225 However, has a SD of .251, like a 168 30 cal, plus a premium, so no comparison in penetration.
 
Check out the diff. in wind drift, this is a huge difference.

Needless to say, the energy difference will be quite dramatic for bigger animals.
 
I would take a hard look at the 225 Partition.
 
I just don't understand the value of this load.

[WyoStillhunter]

I suspect the value of the load is to capture the attention of 35 Whelen owners whose primary quarry is deer.  For that purpose it will probably work just fine as will any commercial Whelen ammo.
 
Like others, I want my Whelen to be effective on elk.  My typical range is short, well under 100 yds., and my typical elk is not a trophy bull.  However, any elk has very tough bones, lots of muscle, and an incredibly elastic hide.  Bullets better hold together if they are going to get the job done.
 
With a 250 gr. bullet, even cup and core design, starting at 2400 fps, + or - a few fps, I am confident taking a shot from any angle with good results.
 
"Super Performance" is marketing lingo to appeal to the masses.  Old timers with a half dozen elk under their belts will have no trouble sorting out marketing hype from tried and true solutions to hunting problems.
 
That said, I am generally a big fan of (most) Hornady products.

[nomosendero]

Yes, WyoStillhunter I am a Hornady fan as well, esp. their V-max Varmit bullets, A-Max & some of their hunting bullets as well. As you said, the load will do fine for Deer, though no better than other loads & not nearly as well as good handloads with the 225 or 250 gr. bullets available.
Yes, in this case it is velocity hype only.

[Graybeard]

So can we actually buy this powder to load with???  Is it Superformance???

Actually as it turns out the answer is no not really. Hornady uses several different powders in their various higher velocity loads and only two of them are being sold in cannisters. You can duplicate the .30-30 and .35 Remington performance with the powder sold as Super Performance but the larger rounds use different powders.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

So what is a "primitive hunter"?  My idea of such involve loading your gun from the muzzle so this useage has me perplexed.

[nomosendero]

MS wants more Deer killed, period!! Same for LA.

[rickt300]

I really like the Hornady 200 gr. Spire point. Worked just fine in my 358 at near 2600 fps. But I just can't see needing 2900 fps and this quick opener on deer. I would expect plenty of devastation! I bet it kicks too.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Needing 2900 fps at the muzzle is probably not necessary for any game.  At a certain point you've got "enough" velocity. 
 
However, if a guy wanted to shoot an elk at 300 yards, I can see the advantage of 2900 fps at the muzzle only because you have flatter trajectory & more power left over at 300 yds.  However, what most of the opinions here seem to indicate is that using a better bullet will gain you a similar or better trajectory plus reliable terminal performance even if you lose 200 fps at the muzzle. 

[nomosendero]

That's it in a nutshell.

[max1138]

So what is a "primitive hunter"?  My idea of such involve loading your gun from the muzzle so this useage has me perplexed.

mississippi allows us to use .35 caliber or larger single shots with an exposed hammer during the 3 week primitive weapons season,  and their use is required on a lot of the WMA's and corps of engineer lands that are open to hunting.


 I have 2 whelen single shots that get used along the tenn-tom waterway near my house for deer and feral hogs on corps of engineers land. they also kill like lightning anywhere else as well.


I went the opposite tack on velocity this year,
 my normal load is 56gr RE15 with 225 sgk's for 2550fps. good for darn near anything in this hemisphere. but it beats the hell out of my damaged shoulder to shoot it a lot and I like to shoot, this is supposed to be something i enjoy doing.
 so this year im using 200gr ftx bullets  intended for 35 remington velocities loaded to 1900fps with 40gr H4895. makes a good 200 yard deer/hog load that I can practice with and not need therapy afterward. 
 And If an elk/grizzly/moose happens to come wandering thru my yard in north mississippi theres plenty of the 225's on hand for that but its really not needed to kill a 150#-300# deer or hog.
 In fact I would be a lot happier if they would just let me hunt with my .243 single shot and call it even.

[JesterGrin]

 I have been wondering about those Hornady 200Gr FTX bullets pushed out of a whelen at say between 2700 and 2900 FPS on how they would perform? None of my shots are closer than 100 yards usually. Most are between 100 and 200 yards for Deer and Hog.

 I have also been wondering about them for the 358 Winchester as well.

[336SC]

Jestergrin,
I loaded the 200gr .35 Caliber FTX bullet in my pump 7600 .35 Remington and floored a big doe last year.  Velocity was 2404fps at
the muzzle and when the FTX bullet hit her running across a grown over field, she just collapsed at the shot.  In one shoulder, severed the
heart from the lungs.  No bullet fragmentation and a nice 50 cent piece exit hole.  I load them in my Ruger 77 Hawkeye in .358 Win and
I'm totally impressed with their accuracy using H322 powder in the Hawkeye.  Have not killed anything with the FTX out of any of my .358's but I'm only driving them around 80fps faster in the .358 Win as opposed to the +P+ load out of the .35 Remington 7600 so
the performance should be near identical.  I like the 200gr FTX .35 caliber so much I bought 7 boxes!
336SC
 

[max1138]

I have been wondering about those Hornady 200Gr FTX bullets pushed out of a whelen at say between 2700 and 2900 FPS on how they would perform? None of my shots are closer than 100 yards usually. Most are between 100 and 200 yards for Deer and Hog.

 I have also been wondering about them for the 358 Winchester as well.

jester, I dont know if I would push them that hard, I loaded some up to 2200 and they held togather in the dirt backstop but just barely the front was fully expanded and nearly wiped off  the core didnt separate from the base but thats about  as hard as I would want to shove em.  for 2700+ I would go with a 200 corelokt or interlock.  the ftx were built for 35 rem velocities and  would prolly ruin a lot of meat
in a whelen top load

[JesterGrin]

336SC has a good in the Field report on how the bullet performed which is great.

Not sure on the top end 35 Whelen velocities but may try. For the 35 Whelen I do have a Speer 250Gr Hot Core load that is VERY Accurate.

But the Hornady 200Gr FTX looks like it can be one heck of a bullet in the 358 Winchester. As I am having a Bolt gun built in that caliber as we speak. .

I was not too happy with the 165 Gr SST Hornady line in my 30-06. Do not get me wrong it did drop the Deer DRT but there was no exit and that was only at 125 yards. And it was not a mild load.

I did call Hornady to ask them about this and they informed me that that bullet was mainly designed for northern shooters where they may worry about the distance a bullet may travel after full penetration. So it was designed to open up kinda quick for that type of game. Again it worked great but I do like to have a full pass through just in case I do have to track. On a further note it did go through the shoulder bone. I think it stopped just on the inside of the skin on the off side but I never found it when we cut the Deer up as it was at night.