Author Topic: Taurus 460 6.5" .45 Colt UPDATE (Read 22619 times)

Graybeard · « **on:** December 15, 2003, 07:09:42 AM »

Well it came back to me today so they did in fact ship it on Friday after we talked.

No improvement really. Cylinder is still ringed and lock up is still loose as a goose. Mark is there on frame. I still say it ain't no scratch and is a metal defect. Why they couldn't see it I haven't a clue. I can see it without my reading glasses and I'm blind as a bat up close without them.

SO a phone call to the customer service manager was made about 90 seconds after I opened the FEDEX box it was in. Yeah I know they say you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar but I wasn't nice. I wasn't in a nice mood.

Told him it looked like I'd have to just take it back to the dealer I had bought it from and dump it at whatever loss I had to take on it and be done with Taurus and see just how many new sales I could cost them. He asked WHY? Uh oh, rant mode on again. I was NOT nice. He was. He waited patiently for me to get finished. Dunno how closely he was holding the phone to his ear tho as it might have gotten scorched a bit if too close.

I explained how I have been perhaps the strongest proponent of Taurus guns out there ever since buying my RB454 Casull and how many hundreds if not thousands of guns I'd sold for them thru my good remarks about them all over the internet. Explained I was now gonna see how many sales I could cost them instead.

Got no clue how much of an impact that had vs. what he would have done for any other customer as unhappy as I was. There is no way to gauge that unless and until someone else has a similar problem and can report on their results.

Bottom line is that I have now covered the spot on frame with tape and have drawn a pencil mark as best as I can tracing the defect on the tape. I even made a drawing on a piece of paper and added it to the box. He said the repair manager is the one who made the decision to ship back to me with the marked cylinder and loose as a goose cylinder. Says he will go to their mutual boss this time when the gun gets there. Once again I'll be waiting ont he FEDEX truck to come at Taurus' expense to pick this gun up and return it to them for the second time.

So they now have one more chance to do right and replace the gun. Will they? Time will tell. I have no doubt what I've already said on this subject has hurt sales. Heck Chris was about to buy one and now looks like he won't. We'll see if they can get back in my good gracies or not. At best there will be a real tainted feeling in me regarding Taurus after this episode. No customer should have to go thru what I have with this gun. Most aren't gonna have the clout of a web site with over 35,000 weekly visitors to tell of it either. How would such a customer fair? I can only wonder.

GB

willis5 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 16, 2003, 06:51:21 AM »

Graybeard,
Hate to "use" you to judge Taurus before making my mind up. you are getting the pain in the neck while we reap the information and insight. I hope All goes well and they make it right. If they don't...

I wonder what they would have done for the average joe, too?

Savage · « **Reply #2 on:** December 16, 2003, 10:45:31 AM »

I only own one Taurus, a 22 revolver. I've always been one to make up my own mind about things. So should I ever be in the market for a Taurus, I'll certainly examine it carefully in light of this information!
Savage

Graybeard · « **Reply #3 on:** December 16, 2003, 10:46:25 AM »

Well for sure these last two Taurus guns and especially this one have been a real pain and I do feel I'm getting a round around from them but am gonna give them the opportunity to prove me wrong on that.

FEDEX picked it up today about noon headed to FL with it. They should have it in hand tomorrow.

Nothing short of a replacement gun is going to satisfy me on this one. I am convinced there is a defect in the top strap of the frame. They claimed to not even be able to see it last trip down. This time I put clear Scotch brand tape on it and used a pencil on the tape to draw over the mark to show it to them. If they come back again saying they can't see it I will know beyond all shadow of a doubt I'm getting the run around. I can't see crap up close without reading glasses yet I can see the defect. I'll also never be satisfied with a new gun right out of box I've still not fired having a heavy and distinct ring on the cylinder and a cylinder that is loose as a goose and likely to spit lead on firing.

This will be their last shot at satisfying me on it. If not then I will see if I can stop folks from buying Taurus guns as effectively as I've been talking them into buying them based on my previous experiences with them.

GB

LJ Barrero · « **Reply #4 on:** December 16, 2003, 05:42:43 PM »

GB,

Did you take a picture of the defect to show us? I wish you did because I was considering to buy one of them and I would hope they don't turn around sell the same gun (with the defect) to another buyer (like me) once they give you a new one.

I was drooling about the tracker 45 colt Total Titanium and I was wondering about you report. Now, I am not going to buy one unless I hold it in my hands and I can inspect it completely.

The only Taurus tracker handgun I have is the 218ss6. It appears that I've got a good one. The only problem that I run into is the powder residues from the H4198. It gets a fey unburnt powder pieces and they wedge in the cylinder with the nex round I shoot. That makes the empty shell a little hard to empty them. I took care of this problem by changing to Blue Dot powder. I use 6.0 grains under a 45 grain Speer bullet.

Going back to the Tracker total titanium 45 Colt revolver, I am also giving Taurus the opportunity to make it right for you so I can hear the report of how it shoots. Good luck!

LJB

EricG · « **Reply #5 on:** December 20, 2003, 01:00:35 PM »

Just wanted to pass on my observations after looking at some Taurus revolvers at a gun show today. I looked at 2 .45 colt stainless trackers. Both of them had very visable drag marks on the cylinder on brand new guns. They were all banded up so I didn't get a feel for how the action/trigger was, though the cylinder felt kind of sloppy but it might lock up fine when it counts...couldn't tell with tthe tie wraps on it. Very nice light revolvers but I'm still suspect of the quality. especially concerned with a light gun in the .45 how long will it hold up?

Also looked at a 5" stainless Raging Bull in .480. No drag marks. Had the dealer unband it. Cylinder locked up tight as a vault. No end shake. Very little barrel cylinder gap. Trigger broke crisp and light. No obvious mechanical or fit/finish defects. Very similar in quality to the .454 RB I have. I wanted to take it home! Unfortunately we couldn't work out a trade and my cash budget isn't there right before CHRISTmas so it's still sitting on the table (at $125 over the best price I've found on the web and $130 less than the other 5" 480 RB I saw at the show).

Overall limited handling not shooting impression is that the Raging Bull series seems a lot better overall quality than the Tracker series.

My .02.

Eric

Graybeard · « **Reply #6 on:** December 20, 2003, 05:47:12 PM »

Quote

Did you take a picture of the defect to show us?

Sorry, just now seeing your question. I did try to photograph it with my DC but that dang auto focus feature just refused to cooperate and give me a clear image of the defect. I do however know the SN so if I get a new one I'll post it here but I think they would be violating federal law to sell it again. For sure they can't sell it as new and how else do manufacturers sell guns?

Quote

Overall limited handling not shooting impression is that the Raging Bull series seems a lot better overall quality than the Tracker series.

My other Ti Tracker in .357 Mag locked up as tight as the RBs and had no drag marks on the cylinder.

GB

Graybeard · « **Reply #7 on:** December 24, 2003, 04:30:35 AM »

Spoke with Robert (Customer service supervisor) at Taurus a few moments ago. They have sent the gun out for magnaflux testing. Dunno when I'll know something but expect it to take until next year some time.

GB

DirtyHarry · « **Reply #8 on:** December 24, 2003, 09:59:50 AM »

That concernes me just a little, I would think the best way for taurus to handle this situation woul be to replace that gun with a new one real quick and then send your old one out to be magnafluxed for cracks? :x

Savage · « **Reply #9 on:** December 24, 2003, 06:29:35 PM »

What scares me is that they don't have any NDT equipment in house!! That would be unthinkable for this type of operation!!
Savage

Graybeard · « **Reply #10 on:** December 24, 2003, 08:00:06 PM »

Yup my thoughts too. I can't conceive of not having NDT capability in house but they don't.

They really are beginning to piss me off on this gun. I've owned it now for quite some time, haven't been able to fire a single shot from it and have had to return it twice and still may not get any satisfaction from them on it. If it comes back to me now it will have been fired who knows how many times by them, torn apart and sent out to an outside source for testing and then returned. It had the serious ring on the cylinder right out of the box, timing was horrible.

If the same one comes back it is doubtful I'll even fire it. I'll probably just take it back to the dealer and trade it to him for something else and let him hassle it out with Taurus. I'll take a significant $ loss but most assuredly NOT like Taurus is gonna when I become their number one enemy rather than maybe their number one advocate as I have been. That relationship is already in serious danger and anymore of this will end it.

In fairness to Robert who is the head of Customer Service I'm positive he wants to replace it. He is the one who has been talking with me on this. He is the one who understands the position I have taken and what I plan to do if it isn't replaced. His boss who I assume is the overall manager of US operations doesn't want to replace it. Neither does the head of the repair shop.

Well like they say in the oil filter commercial. Ya can pay a little now or a lot latter. They've already pissed around and wasted more money than a replacement would have cost them. If I get the same one back I can just about guarantee you that the effect of me going from almost sounding as if I were on their payroll I was such a strong advocate for their guns to telling the world I think they should spent their money elsewhere is gonna cost them a thousand times more in lost sales. A lot of folks have bought Taurus guns because of my reports on the ones I've had prior to this. Now tho two bad ones in a row and them acting as they are on this one has me already regretting that help I've given them. We'll see. They might still be able to patch this up and give me my confidence in them back but they have a tough road to travel as of today. That road has a huge sink hole in the middle if that same gun comes back my way again.

GB

Jim Stacy · « **Reply #11 on:** December 26, 2003, 03:28:28 AM »

I have a couple of Taurus RB's 5&6.5" and a few Trackers 357/Ti, 41 SS , 22 Mag 6.5 & 45 auto / Stellar ? All of these guns are of good quality , maybe fit and function is a better term . The 357 Ti is sensitive about pressure and any loads that produce more than 35 K make extraction very difficult. I have never been impressed with the function or fit of the 66, 65 or what ever series. I had a 32long/32mag I think mod 65 that worked fine but had a bad mix of dimensions --big chamber mouths , small bore .315 mouth /.311 bore . Never got the thing to shoot so it went the way of a trade.I don't know about the siloutte , 12" you talked about, but they look interesting . I would like to see them make a 32 mag Ti tracker in 6" barrel would be a fun field gun. My RB's shoot better than the Ruger 454 SRH I got rid of . The Ruger was as bad as youdescribe the Taurus you had probalems. The thing functioned but it had .457 throats and a BCG of .01 . The velocities out of the 7.5" barrel were about the same out of my 5" RB (really 3.75 with expansion chamber). I am new to your site and enjoy it ---good job. Jim

KF6GUB · « **Reply #12 on:** December 27, 2003, 09:27:19 AM »

I remember when you, Graybeard, got your first Taurus, the 454 I believe. I'm just new to posting on your site. Anyway...your experience with the Taurus company indicates to me that a customer without the clout you have does not stand a chance if dissastified with the product. I read that you are threatening to not recommend Taurus guns if the company does not make good on your revolver. For me, it is already too late for Taurus, if this process is what the company is going to put a customer through, in particular, a customer that has a well-known website with a large following. Thanks. KF6GUB.

DirtyHarry · « **Reply #13 on:** December 27, 2003, 09:37:14 AM »

Jim and KF6GUB Hello and WELCOME to Graybeard Outdoors

I purchased two revolvers over the holidays, a model 85 and a 454RB. After putting quite a few rounds through both the last couple days,they both seem to be of good quality BUT, from here on out I will most likely be looing at another brand the next time I am in the market for a handgun

ranger730 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 27, 2003, 07:42:43 PM »

I dont know whats going on with taurus lately but this is not the first time Ive heard of taurus guns with problems. presently ive got two a pt-58 shot sevral boxes of ammo no problems and a 66 7-shot had it almost a year and hadnt shot it yet about scared to. All I have to say is when ever I get my next pistol Ill just just keep going till I get to the ruger section (diehard ruger man) goodluck graybeard and as my pa use to say theres a time to be nice and a time not to be nice sounds like there pushing it

unspellable · « **Reply #15 on:** December 29, 2003, 05:01:07 AM »

I'm not convinced anyone will gain anything by abandoning Taurus in favor of some other make.

I have two Rugers with misaligned cylinders. (Chamber does not line up with bore.) This weekend looked at another Ruger with the same problem at the gun show.

I have a Browning 22 with a hold open that doesn't work right after it went back for service.

I have a Colt Anaconda with a poor cylinder latch after return for service. I have a Colt Mustang that the rear sight fell off of.

I had a Smith & Wesson in which the crane was free to move forward and allow the cylinder to hit the rear of the barrel. I've wlaked pastr several with loose rattely latch up.

I got rid of an AMT Backup that never fired a full magazine full without a malfunction.

I have a shotgun that jammed up because of a loose chip of metal in the works.

Etc., etc., etc. In short, quiality assurance is poor on just about all of them.

michbob · « **Reply #16 on:** December 29, 2003, 05:23:03 AM »

Holy Cow!!!

Admittedly, my collection of guns is rather small, but the four I do have are good. Reading this thread and others makes me think I've been lucky. Of course, I've never ordered one sight-unseen. Does anyone think that could be the problem? (The distributors sending those in A-1 condition to the stores where they could be handled, while keeping the scratch and dent pieces for those who special order them.)

Oh, well. I'm off to the range. :grin:

Happy New Year!
Michbob

gunpilot · « **Reply #17 on:** January 12, 2004, 06:56:11 PM »

i was going to buy a taurus 357 tracker but have now reconsidered.

Graybeard · « **Reply #18 on:** January 13, 2004, 08:12:34 AM »

As a matter of fact yes but I'm just now getting time to type it in.

Remember now this gun came home with me on Nov. 25, 2003. I've not yet been able to fire the first shot thru it. It has made TWO trips to Taurus which is where it is today as I type this.

I made numerous calls yesterday to Taurus to speak with Robert the head of Customer Service. BTW wanna know what an oxymoron is? Taurus Customer Service. That is an oxymoron. At any rate I never made contact with Robert. Each time I got his voice mail not him.

I finally called back and told the gal who answers the phone it was time for me to speak with someone. I'd had this gun since November and not yet been able to fire a shot. She put Anthony on the phone. He said he'd check and call me back. To his credit he did.

BUT what he told me was no decision has been made. I asked for the results of the Magnaflux testing of frame and he refused to discuss it with me. He said that a replace or return decision will be made by the head honcho of Taurus USA this week. He would not let me speak with this decision maker or tell me the result of the NDT on frame. He said he will call me back on Friday to tell me their decision on this gun

Well to say I am one unhappy customer is an understatement for sure. This is my LAST TAURUS gun as long as I live. You will NEVER EVER again hear me say anything good about the company because quite frankly at this stage I know of nothing. I will say if you buy one without first doing a really complete full inspection of it you are making a serious mistake and are likely to regret it. For sure DO NOT assume that they will take care of you after the sale. That is not my experience with them.

GB

osceola · « **Reply #19 on:** January 14, 2004, 05:39:36 AM »

This same type of Non-customer service scenerio happened to my hunting partner/neighbor in 2002 with his 454 RB. It was a timing issue along with worn soft metal internals. Standard reply when calling customer service is to send the gun in, no one there would discuss anything with him. On 2 seperate occassions, trying to remedy the same problem the gun was sent in with the FFL costs of sending it in for the Free lifetime warranty. 1st time it came back with a forcing cone that seemed to have been worked over by a dremel, very rough and gouged. 2nd time he couldn't see what had been done but it was outside and 8" circle at 50' off a rest. He called and was told to send it in a 3rd time to which he sent a very pleading fax to the head of "customer service" to have someone discuss his gun with him---No Response. He called 4 times over the course of a week explaining that he had faxed a major concern to the head of customer service and that he needed to talk to him---Taurus said they would get back. Well now someone else owns that trade-in gun and he no longer hunts with a Taurus. As Graybeard said, if you buy a Taurus(especially a used one), check it or have it checked out thoroughly before you lay your money down. I've read of similar complaints by others of other manufacturers but this is my 1st hand knowledge of it with Taurus.

Graybeard · « **Reply #20 on:** January 16, 2004, 10:51:14 AM »

Just got off the phone with Anthony at Taurus. He in turn was talking with Robert the head of Customer Service. Robert passed the word to me that the gun will be replaced and the replacement will ship out on Monday. We'll see.

GB

Jim n Iowa · « **Reply #21 on:** January 16, 2004, 02:40:20 PM »

GB
Hope it works for you, but Joe six pack doesn't have the hammer that you do, and you have had to jump threw a few hoops. I think I will be trading my m44 for a Ruger (can't go the S&M).
Jim

DirtyHarry · « **Reply #22 on:** January 16, 2004, 05:55:39 PM »

GB,
Was there any admission or explanation of the problems with the gun? because if this is just an example of the squeaky wheel getting the oil then Taurus has not really made any effort in correcting anything....

Graybeard · « **Reply #23 on:** January 17, 2004, 06:13:14 AM »

The first time I spoke with Anthony earlier in the week he refused to discuss the results of the magnaflux test. He didn't want to discuss it yesterday but when pressed hard he said there was no crack. About this time Robert got involved on the Taurus end of the conversation talking to Anthony not to me. It was relayed to me that the reason for replacing it is that they were having to replace the cylinder and it was on back order so rather than make me wait longer they were just replacing the gun.

This followed a real serious rant on my part about the gun having come home with me on November 25 and that it had only been in my hands two days in all of this time and that I felt it was time they did something other than talk about it.

GB

kkeetr · « **Reply #24 on:** January 17, 2004, 04:26:13 PM »

I just ordered a 627 Ti in 357 on Friday. Obviously I had not seen this string yet but now I am really concerned about what will come in that new Taurus box. All the "objective" gun reviews I've read about this gun have been positive. As a matter of fact they all said nearly the exact same thing like they were plagerising a press release from Taurus or something. Anyway, I guess I'll keep my fingers crossed till Tuesday!

Graybeard · « **Reply #25 on:** January 17, 2004, 07:30:49 PM »

Maybe you'll be lucky. The Taurus 627 Ti I traded in on this particular gun was a jewel. Not a single problem with it. You can see my review of it further down the list on this forum if you'd like.

GB

Tc300mag1 · « **Reply #26 on:** January 17, 2004, 07:40:05 PM »

Glad i saw this before i decided to buy that 608 357 mag

Graybeard · « **Reply #27 on:** January 21, 2004, 07:29:42 AM »

Looks like I've been lied to again. Imagine that.

Was told last Friday the replacement gun would ship Monday. Only way they ship is overnight via FEDEX. The truck didn't show yesterday so it didn't ship Monday. It is now 12:30 PM and they truck hasn't showed today either. They generally always run in the morning at my house. So it looks like it didn't ship yesterday.

GB

Savage · « **Reply #28 on:** January 21, 2004, 12:04:09 PM »

Graybeard,
Must have been the holiday--or maybe the terror alert level-----or global warming. I'm sure it's not their fault!

Savage

Graybeard · « **Reply #29 on:** January 22, 2004, 05:14:42 AM »

Just got off the phone with Robert head of Customer Service. Gun has not shipped. Says he will personally see it ships today. Guess we'll see. He has promised to call me back after it ships with the tracking #.

I honestly don't know at this point Chris. It is a gun I've long wanted. Even longer than it has been made. If I get a replacement as promised and if it appears to be a good gun as opposed to junk like the last two I've gotten then I'll at least shoot it. If I shoot it and it turns out I like it as much as I've been assuming I will then I'll keep it. If not I'll trade it off. Until it arrives and I examine it and maybe shoot it I guess I really won't know. But for sure the luster is off of it for me. Now I just want this mess to end.

GB