Author Topic: This is to make sure no oil is produced here, and gas prices goe out of site.  (Read 1882 times)

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Offline Sourdough

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Got this from today's Fairbanks Daily News Miner.  As if there was not enough land already locked up, now they want to relook at what else can be put off limits.  Remember they said all the wilderness designations under ANILCA would not lock up the land.  They said ANWR would be set aside but drilling would still be permitted.  Now they are looking at the National Patrolium Reserve Alaska to lock it up as well.  Anyway, this is the first time in a long time I have agreed with anything Dermot Cole has said.   



Federal land directive signals major policy shift in Alaska by Dermot Cole  Dec 30, 2010

 
The announcement by Interior Secretary Ken Salazar to conduct a "wilderness inventory" of BLM land in Alaska and to create a new category called "Lands with Wilderness Characteristics" signals the biggest change in federal land policy in years.

While Salazar said his plan "does not 'lock up' western lands from other uses, as I am sure some people will claim," the move may lead to new restrictions on the use of millions of acres in Alaska managed by the Bureau of Land Management.

The 23-million-acre National Petroleum Reserve-Alaska is subject to this new level of regulation.

"The BLM must inventory the lands in NPR-A and may designate Wild Lands in NPR-A as part of its integrated activity planning for the area. Consistent with controlling law, the BLM will continue to conduct an expeditious program of competitive oil and gas leasing in the reserve," an Interior Department statement said.

The addition of "Wild Lands" in NPR-A could create a new tool to oppose  oil and gas development in that part of Alaska. It could also have implications for development on various other parts of the other 50 million acres under BLM management.

Salazar, who announced this change just before Christmas, has given new marching orders to the Interior Department to overturn  the planning approach that has been in place since 2003 on BLM land in Alaska.

There has been an off-again, on-again planning system for BLM land in Alaska over the past 30 years.

In 2003, Interior Secretary Gale Norton said the Bush administration wanted to accommodate the views of Alaska's political leaders, who opposed additional restrictions on federal land. She reversed the position taken by Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt in 2001. Babbitt, for his part, had reversed the position that had been in effect for 20 years.

In dumping the Babbitt approach, Norton concluded that BLM wilderness study proposals could only proceed if they had "broad support among the state and federal officials representing Alaska." They didn't have broad support, so they didn't take place.

The federal stance has changed again under Salazar, who says that the Obama administration "accepts the invitation extended by Congress" in 1980 to "identify public lands in Alaska suitable for designation as wilderness."

His department released a Q&A on the new policy that says, "There has never been a statewide wilderness inventory in Alaska."

However, the BLM and other federal agencies have released many reports over the years that say, "Alaska lands were exhaustively inventoried, reviewed and studied for their wilderness values under the Wilderness Act criteria, beginning in 1971, when Congress enacted the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act."

Most of the 1970s were consumed by reviews of Alaska land to determine which should be called wilderness and which should be placed in parks, refuges, forests, etc.

Congress settled the future of Alaska land, or at least it was thought to be settled, when it chose to put 150 million acres in "conservation units." This  is more than 40 percent of the land in Alaska and 60 percent of the federal land.

A total of 57 million acres was designated as wilderness, which means that there is to be no lasting sign of man's presence on the land.

The Interior Department said that before  new "Wild Lands" are named in Alaska, there will be  "robust public comment and involvement."



Read more: Fairbanks Daily News-Miner - entry Federal land directive signals major policy shift in Alaska
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Offline nomosendero

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Thanks for the report, but it is no surprise. Like Gore, I am sure Obama & friends are
invsting what they can for wind turbines, solar panals, etc., stop that awful Global Warming
& bring us down/promote World Socialism at the same time.
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Offline Swampman

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Buy an economy car.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline Pat/Rick

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bo said in his campaigning that he'd kill the coal industry and he's making good on it. The Boardman plant in OR is scheduled to close this spring, scratch that electricity and jobs. They preach about wind power, why haven't I seen any substations around the towers?? Are they even producing electricity?? They scream about the economy but close down the oil industry? Instead of  keeping jobs to keep a tax base they would rather sell out more of the USA by borrowing money.

+1 nomosendero.

Offline Sourdough

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Pat/Rick:  You just hit on something.  Earlier this week Usabelli Coal mine in Healy Alaska announced it has plans to expand.  China, Korea, and Africian nations are begging for more coal.  Usabelli announced the areas where they are asking for permits to remove coal.  There is no need to go look for coal, they already know where it is.  Alaska has the second largest coal deposits in the world.  And I too remember Obama saying he was going to shut down the Coal Industry.  This could be just one more way of shutting down the Coal Industry.

Swampman:  Economy cars do not work well in Alaska.  Oh down in Anchorage, and along the coast they are OK.  And in some areas of the lower 48.  Bet the country folks in North Dakota or Montana won't have one.  Here in the interior of Alaska nobody wants one.  They don't heat well, it takes Cast Iron to produce heat, and at 30 to 60 below you want heat.  Being so light they don't push through snow well, if  we get an 8" snow or more the little guys are found on the side of the road or they stay home.  Aluminium engines don't retain heat good, so if you are going to park it for more than two hours it has to be plugged in.  So much for the wife and kids going to the mall.  If it is not plugged in it won't start when you come out to go home.  If you hit a Moose in a little car your chances of surviving are slim, the front bumper knocks the legs out from under the Moose and the body falls through your windshield, right on top of the driver and front seat passenger.  Most people living here drive trucks or SUVs, at least when they hit a Moose the Moose stays on the grille.  Think about it would you like to be driving a Subaru, and get caught between two big duelly pickups in a pileup?  Or just lose control of the Subaru on icy roads and hit me in my big F-350 headon at 25 MPH?
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Offline Lon371

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 This must be why the news reported last week, gas price will go over $5 a gallon in 2012. They did not say it could, they said IT WILL.


Lonny

Offline Empty Quiver

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Buy an economy car.
I know what you are getting at Swampman.

An economy car will save me enough money to offset the increased cost to heat the house. It will also offset the cost of renting a boat and motor to use on vacation (can't tow much with the Fit). May also offset the cost of renting a fish house up north because I can't take mine due to size constraints. It will also offset the increased cost of EVERY single thing I purchase that was delivered by truck, from lettuce to shoe polish to nasal decongestant it is all going to cost more.

No, the goal is to make the American person suffer. I need to suffer like the folks around the world who are too dang lazy, to rid themselves of their lousy leaders. I need to suffer because parents of the third world hungry children can't keep their pants on. I need to suffer because Al needs a mission that keeps him relevant. I need to suffer because someone believed the crap they were taught in Environmental Halucinations 201.

I'll ask one more time. What exactly are we saving all this oil for? Everybody says there are replacements for it, if so what good is leaving this crap in the ground? The sooner it is gone the sooner it will be truly be economically feasable to change to the next power source. The Chinese get it, cripes any third world despot gets it. Are we really too cool for the planet now?
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Offline billy_56081

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What we need is for several states to defy the feds and start drilling and building refineries. If they try to stop them block em with the guard and state police.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline Conan The Librarian

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Firing Obama will help a bit.

Offline Swampman

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Excuses aside.....if we'd drive economy cars the price would go down........a lot.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline beerbelly

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I don't think so, people in China and India now own cars and drive because our industry has moved there and they can now afford it! With our industry they are becoming richer as we become poorer, but the eco-freaks are happy!

Offline slim rem 7

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 just get out an vote the true enemies of our country out of office....prayin wouldn t hurt either..

Offline Conan The Librarian

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We already do drive economy cars. It's hard to find a conventional car that gets less than 25mpg, and the most popular SUVs get around 20mpg, and it's increasing. My SUV gets 22mpg on the highway. That's about what the old VW beetles got during the 60s and they were cramped little rattletraps. My wife's mini van gets 26mpg-- better than the old VW beetle. My buddy's diesel powered Ford pickup gets 23mpg while towing 7 tons of hay.

As for economy, what's economy? My SUV is more economical than the subcompact cars I drove before because, although I pay a few hundred dollars per year more for fuel, I pay substatially less for maintenance. So it actually cheaper to own than my old Toyota Camry or Plymouth Horizon.

I'd have to get a much smaller car to pay significantly less for fuel, and then I'd lose passenger room, cargo room, towing ability, comfort, safety, etc. Why would I want to do that? My car's getting pretty old now and I'm starting to look at replacements. The cars I'm considering all get better gas mileage than that SUV. This is because a relatively new kind of car, the crossover, has emerged and become common. These have all the attributes I want in a car, but get up to 30mpg in some configurations.

Meanwhile, alternative fuels are being developed. Including electrics for urbanites. I think this is a good development, and it will be interesting to see how we progress.

I checked the prius. Pretty much useless for my purposes.

Offline Redhawk1

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What is hard for everyone to understand?  They are doing this to force us to wind and solar power, which is not reliable, and the energy cannot be stored. They will still have to be backed up by focal fuels, It is a way to regulate us, and charge us what they want.  It is all about power and money and CONTROL!

Solar and wind power will be subsidized by "us" the tax payer, costing us even more money.. IT IS ALL ABOUT CONTROL...........................

Buying economy cars are not the answer, a total overhaul of the Congress and getting rid of that clown called a President will be a start!  Also getting rid of all the regulators and the EPA, and the Federal reserve.

When is America going to wake the He$$ UP!
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Offline Hooker

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Meanwhile, alternative fuels are being developed. Including electrics for urbanites. I think this is a good development, and it will be interesting to see how we progress.



Conan good post until you got to this.
Alternative fuel development is a joke, because of political positioning and nothing good will come of it as long as the government is pumping our money  into it.
If private money and a free market system can't develop a viable alternative fuel then there is either no market for such or their is no money to be made by it.
But as long as the government throws our money at development there will be no incentive for private entities to invest in a solution.

Pat
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Offline Cabin4

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The actions this administration are taking will drive up the price of all fossil based fuels produced in the US and take our jobs. It will drive up our need to import fossil based fuels and create jobs overseas. Their hope is in fact to drive the price for fossil based fuel up to the point that the alternative fuel sources & their products become affordable in comparison. Drive up the price of gas and the electric or hybrid car become are more viable investment. Drive up the price of coal and the wind powered electric plant will look like a more viable investment for the energy companies. ect, ect, ect. A half arse backwards way of getting to alternative energy use that brings satisfaction for the big money alternative energy corporations like GE. Also, it make the eco Nazi’s happy because it drives down the demand for fossil fuel and lowers drilling/exploration in wild land areas. A win win for the lefties.

A smart approach would be to deregulate to allow more use of our fossil based fuel sources and power generation. It would create jobs here in the US because domestic fuel would cost less than imported fuel. It would also create an export market for coal to those countries that need coal. It would drive down the cost of gas then the government could increase the gas tax to raise tax revenue to use for tax credits on alternative fuel use investments. Investments such as wind, solar, water projects for the power generation companies, hybrid cars for consumers, solar panels for your home, ect. .....

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Offline ironglow

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  Fellas;

   We just have to face reality...all this clap-trap about global warmng and virtually every other "environmental" concern put forth by the "progressives" has little to do with environment, but much more to do with anti-capitalism !
   Since this radical leftist/progressive gang has taken over in Washington, how many of the efforts by them including bills they have pushed and Czars the leftist messiah has appointed, has helped the United States economically or competition-wise in the world ?   I say ZERO..each one cripples us more.
     They won't let us drill ANWR and have put vast tracts of western lands off limits to drilling...it is not because they do not like drilling, because they loaned a lot of our tax money to Brazil for off shore drilling...while enacting a moratorium on our own off shore efforts.
   Their mouths say "we must quit buying foreign oil"  ...while they off limit our reserves...and boost the market for Hugo Chavez and their Muslim buddies.
   They couldn't ram a Cap & Trade law through congress, so the messiah/chief has one of his "Czars" declare the same by fiat.  Have they striven to have Cap & Trade installed in China, India or Africa...all of whom polllute more in their manufacturing and plain ci8vil pollution than we do ?  No;  because the capitalists they want to destroy are located in the US.
   They must know full well that imposing near impossible regulations on our corporations (which overseas corporations don't have), plus ever raising taxes will automatically drive corporations from our land...and they keep on doing it. That makes it quite obvious as we see with the few progressives here...that the progressives have a natural antipathy and hatred of the USA.
   Again I ask; How many things have they done which is good for our economy and trade ??  How have they increased our market share in the world ?
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Conan The Librarian

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Hooker:

I think the eventual solution will be more electric, based on nuclear. We're just doing it in the most roundabout expensive way possible because that's the way our political process consistently works. In the meantime expect to see horrifically wasteful use of natural gas used in power plants, and windfarms with million dollar wind turbines that are broken half the time and never pay back without a big subsidy. Also expect wasteful production of ethanol, which is little more than a jobs program for farmers.

Offline northkid

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Buy an economy car.
It won't matter as the economy picks ups up so will barrels of oil, China will be buying more oil for products not gas.
Only 48% of a barrel of oil is used for gas. We see gas at $3.25 today just wait till the world economy picks up, supply and demand for oil will rise and not just for gas.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/ask/crudeoil_faqs.asp

Offline ironglow

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We already do drive economy cars. It's hard to find a conventional car that gets less than 25mpg, and the most popular SUVs get around 20mpg, and it's increasing. My SUV gets 22mpg on the highway. That's about what the old VW beetles got during the 60s and they were cramped little rattletraps. My wife's mini van gets 26mpg-- better than the old VW beetle. My buddy's diesel powered Ford pickup gets 23mpg while towing 7 tons of hay.

As for economy, what's economy? My SUV is more economical than the subcompact cars I drove before because, although I pay a few hundred dollars per year more for fuel, I pay substatially less for maintenance. So it actually cheaper to own than my old Toyota Camry or Plymouth Horizon.

I'd have to get a much smaller car to pay significantly less for fuel, and then I'd lose passenger room, cargo room, towing ability, comfort, safety, etc. Why would I want to do that? My car's getting pretty old now and I'm starting to look at replacements. The cars I'm considering all get better gas mileage than that SUV. This is because a relatively new kind of car, the crossover, has emerged and become common. These have all the attributes I want in a car, but get up to 30mpg in some configurations.

Meanwhile, alternative fuels are being developed. Including electrics for urbanites. I think this is a good development, and it will be interesting to see how we progress.

I checked the prius. Pretty much useless for my purposes.


  Conan;
     I don't know where you got those figures for the VW Beetle, but they don't match my experience.. I bought my first Beetle  a 1961 model in 1962 and it got right around 36 mpg highway. I kept driving beetles until they quit building them in about 1974, and although they did get choked down some with eco-freak additions, my last one , a 1973 Sport bug managed 28 mpg highway.  I debate your description of "rattletrap" for the VW Beetle...I went to the VWs after spending some time as mechanic on domestic iron. After having worked upon the little fellows that upon occasionally came into our shop, I could easily see that fit, finish and quality of the VW was way beyond what Detroit was building at the time.  Living where I do, in the snow belt, at a time when 4WD was rare, my beetles was commonly showing the big cars how to go in the snow.
   Added to that, if I needed an exhaust system..$19 to JC Whitney and I replaced from manifold to tailpipe, any fender, should I need it about the same. Smaller; yes but cramped, not really. Of course we were only a family of four and I was the largest at about 210#.

  Today we hear all kinds of mileage figure being bounced around by proud owners who often take a trip and forget they started with a full tank so they must refill at the end to figure mileage correctly.  Fact is, some even hedge their mileage a bit.  Generally, I ignore some claims when they are unrealistic...but there is a simple way of estimating the mileage...and here's how;
  Unless it is a special vehicle or built for long range running or towing, most manufacturers install a stock fuel tank that takes that vehicle 400 miles + - per tank .
  If they have automatic tranny and/or a bunch of power robbing equip...drop another 2-3 mpg in mileage.  An economy minded driver can add a couple mpg.

      My Ford Ranger, base truck, 5 sp manual, 4 cyl gets about 28 mpg highway.  It has a 15 gal tank which divides to 26.66666 mpg, but I am an economy minded driver.  My Toyota Yaris 4 cyl, 5 speed manual, gets 40-41 mpg  highway, perhaps 36-37 on local highways. .
   I have seen too many Toyotas locally get in the neighborhood of 500K miles on the odometer to think that any other brand will generally outlast it and they are not alone..size has no relationship to long term endurance..  Fact is all vehicles, properly maintained will last longer than those of just a few years ago.    

   As far as electric cars saving the environment..we should stop and consider just how much pollution is generated by the plant which produces the electric our new car uses .
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline beerbelly

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Obama and friends want gas prices to be ten dollars a gallon and up. That is how they plan to force you into an electric car. It is all about destroying this country! And they seem to be winning!

Offline Pat/Rick

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I don't think so, people in China and India now own cars and drive because our industry has moved there and they can now afford it! With our industry they are becoming richer as we become poorer, but the eco-freaks are happy!
Yep. The wto, nafta, and cafta, global economy, global equality. ALL need to be repealed and/or cast aside in concept. Your chinese made goods......ALL industry in china is owned/subsidized by their military. ALL that scrap iron that was being sent there? Kinda like pre-war japan huh?? Amazing how some think trade with china is a good thing ::).

Empty Quiver brought up a point that all should heed. Delivery costs of everyday items. If you can stock up now, or, if you do, keep at it.

+1 IG, My '01 ranger has over 200,000 miles with simple maintenance, oil changes, tires, brakes,etc  Maintenance is KEY. Not as good as MPG as you with it 4x4 and auto, oh well.

Offline 351 power

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whatever fuel you don't use you don't have to pay for. lower demands on fuel inventory will cool fuel prices. you can't do without fuel but can you do with less. we do over invest in bigger faster vehicles because of style or power or options like 4x4. sometimes it's beyond our means. this holds true for housing too. costs more to heat a bigger area. but in the end if you stay within your means it should be ok. if the business structure is not finding new more efficient ways to accomplish transportation or home heating then it is lazy business practice. who will find the better ways to do these things? i know that northern places need more substantial vehicles but the number of soccermoms in 4x4s is crazy
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Offline Sourdough

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Ironglow:  I was a conasure and collector of VWs until about five years ago.  In 2006 I sold the last seven.  1 Karmin Ghia, 1 Square back, 2 Dune Buggies, 1 Van, and 2 Beetles.  The Van got 19 to 22 mpg, The Dune buggies got lousy mileage on the highway but got good (in the low 30s) on back roads and off road.  The rest were in the mid to upper 20s.

Swampman/351 power:  The more we save the more the government will cut.  The EPA has started refusing to renew permits on refineries in Texas.  There goes the cost of gasoline because there are fewer refineries now producing gas.  We have not built any new refineries in over 35 years, and all that are out there are producing at peak capacity.  If the Obama administration puts the bulk of Alaska Off Limits to any type of energy production they are breaking the back bone of this nation.  Since they are refusing to give us permits to drill for oil we have been looking at harvesting the bio-mass off the land.  Black Spruce covers much of Alaska and is a renewable resource.  Canada is using it to make OSB, Wood Pellets, Press Board, Pulp and Paper.  There is also some type of oil removed that is used by industry.  If the large tracts of land are designated as wilderness that land is then Off Limits for timber harvest.

People the Obama administration is intent on breaking the back of this great nation, and we are not doing anything about it.
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Offline Redhawk1

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Investments such as wind, solar, water projects for the power generation companies, hybrid cars for consumers, solar panels for your home, ect. .....




You need to look at the cost of this, also who we have to get the material for solar panels, it comes from China, USA does not refine the materials for solar power, also wind power cost more to produce then it saves.. Again the material needed for wind generators are produced in other countries..

Everyone is so blinded by this alternative energy, yet no one wants to hear how it is not worth a crap, and does not save us money, nor does it produces jobs in the United States.

Any time your neighbor puts solar panels on there house, we the tax payers have to subsidize the electric company for paying them for the energy they sell back to the grid..Why don't people do research instead of repeating what all these political hacks and regulators keep telling them?
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Offline Cabin4

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Investments such as wind, solar, water projects for the power generation companies, hybrid cars for consumers, solar panels for your home, ect. .....




You need to look at the cost of this, also who we have to get the material for solar panels, it comes from China, USA does not refine the materials for solar power, also wind power cost more to produce then it saves.. Again the material needed for wind generators are produced in other countries..

Everyone is so blinded by this alternative energy, yet no one wants to hear how it is not worth a crap, and does not save us money, nor does it produces jobs in the United States.

Any time your neighbor puts solar panels on there house, we the tax payers have to subsidize the electric company for paying them for the energy they sell back to the grid..Why don't people do research instead of repeating what all these political hacks and regulators keep telling them?

Why don’t people read the entire post before responding to it? If you would read it you’d see I’m not endorsing any of this. Just simply stating a smarter way that Obama could have approached this. As far as the panel production not being in the US, well, that’s because it clearly does not make financial sense for a factory to build them here. The entire idea around the tax credit program would need to bridge the gap that exists in production costs. Obama said he was going to unleash the “green economy” and create millions of new jobs. It has not happened and nothing he is doing is even going to start the process. Simply making fossil fuels more expensive by constricting supply is a stupid way to go about doing this. There is a smarter way that would create both short and long term jobs if you are hell bent on reducing fossil fuel consumption. I never said anything about homeowners pushing electricity back into the grid, political hacks or regulators. So I don’t even know how you came up with this comment

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Offline Swampman

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Both of my Toyotas average 40mpg.  They run on gas only.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline Dogshooter

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Buying Toyotas should really give our economy a big boost.
Perception is everything. For instance, a crowded elevator smells different to a midget.

Offline Sourdough

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Swampman:  Back in 1982 I had a Honda that gave me 52 MPG on the highway, as long as I could keep it above 60 MPH.  When I slowed down to the legal speed of 55, my milage went down to 50.   Around town I got 47 to 48 mpg, and that was in 1982.  Why have there been no real improvements since then?  Today with my arthritis there is no way I fit into a small car. 

As the population ages we need what is called Arthritic Friendly vehicles.  Few small cars fit that catagory.  Most SUVs and pickups work.  The Honda Element, and Ridgeline, have the clearance.  The KIA Sportage is another one but the KIA Sorento (larger vehicle) does not work, the windshield is racked back too much cutting down on the clearance between the seat bottom and the top of the door frame. 
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline gypsyman

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We have several solar energy plants here in N.W. Ohio, and are expanding. So jobs are being created in that field, not in the millions, but they are hiring.
One thing that we have to remember, the gas and coal industry has been around over a hundred years, and it's going to take years before the green industry's can make a major impact. Problem is with the way the govt. is trying to change things, there cutting the legs off our economy before a wheelchair can be put in place. They ought to be pushing oil and nuclear as much as the ''green technology's''. Wind and solar electricity will be a source of energy in future, but probably not in our lifetime. Nuclear should never have been put on hold.France gets the major part of their electricity from nuke plants, and I do believe we have better technology and workers than they do!!
Thing of it is, this is all common sense, you don't need an engineering degree or doctorate to understand this. Which is why I'm fully convinced that this administration is purposely pushing this economy down. They want us to suffer. Take us down the a third world level. And, unfortunatley, their doing a damn good job of it. gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman