Winger Ed's Winter projects

[Winger Ed.]

Starting to cool off here and its time to think about this winters project.  What are you going to build?

I'm in the middle of my first attempt at one of these.
I wish I was able to cast, or make a fancier (cupie doll worthy) looking one instead of using a welding gas tank.
But it should work OK, and be as safe as these things can be.

The barrel is almost done.  Today I got the fuse hole/liner drilled, but not tapped.
And I got the lathe un-buried so I can bore the fuse hole through a 4" bolt.
Last week I preheated, then glued in the 6"dia. x 7" long breech plug, and trunion. 
There is 1" of the plug- its 7th inch, sticking out the rear.  I figured that would be enough to attach the notched out trunion,
and be able to grind away on it so that the rear would look more rounded like a cast Coehorn.

The rear band is a slice out of the cylinder's lower section that was split, expanded, and driven down onto the barrel.
The picture is the bottom view of the barrel where the band is a couple inches shy of joining together,
and had to be patched with piece of flat bar.
The top band is flat bar that was pounded using the lower section of the cylinder as a mandrel, then welded on. 

After 3 hot passes with the MIG running at about 225 Amps- I figure it should stay together.
I was going to just fill in the back end with Bondo for the 'rounded look'.
But after seeing that big, almost full, 44 pound roll of wire on the welder...
I thought to myself, 'MIG wire is evil---- and must be punished'!!
I have more to go, but I started filling in to get the rounded over shape with steel.   

The sled is still in the planning stages.
With 4' long 2 x 12s, I haven't quite got the scale & design right.

[Double D]

Now that's starting to look like a pretty nice Mortar. And its being done the better way for a pressure tank.  Those reinforcement rings are clever.

Here is a drawing of the original 1844 Seacoast Mortar to help lay the carriage out.



The cheeks of the original were cast iron.  

I don't think that wood you have will stand up very well to the recoil of a 16 pound ball.  Have you considered making the cheeks of one or two inch plate?

Oh yes  Kewpies are awarded for pictures of cannons I like. But I can't add a  Kewpie to an attachment I can only add to a picture that is posted for from a photo host site.  Here on GBO every body gets a free photo hosting site at http://www.myhostedpics.com .   Another free site is http://photobucket.com/ 

[Winger Ed.]

Now that's starting to look like a pretty nice Mortar.

Wow.  I'm honored.
Being in progress & all, I didn't think this project was really worthy of its own thread yet.
I was going to put one together after it was done. 
Thank you very much for moving this to its own thread so early in the game.

The sled design does have me sort of scratching my head.
I've gathered every Coehorn picture I can find, and have spent a few hours studying all of them.
I started laying it out on 2 x 12s because I'd seen so many others on them, and figured it'd be OK.
Also, the porportions looked about right compared with old pictures of real Civil War Coehorns.
I was planning to use 4 x 6s for all the cross boards between the side plates.

My other option was to stack & put 4 x 6s together. 
But; to look right with the added width, I'd need to add extensions onto the ends of the trunions.
I scrounge them in 43" lengths or shorter from the 'skids' high security safes are shipped on.

The 1" plate idea is do-able.  I work as the fabricator and welder for a safe company.
On occasion we junk out safes that are built of 3/4 or 1" plate.  I'd just have to wait until one comes through, and grab it.
But cutting that stuff--- with a only a torch and/or sawz-all-----
ohh,, dear-- ya need to bring a sandwhich and something to drink,,,
'cause you're going to be there awhile.

[Double D]

First, the base you are planing is not a coehorn base.  It is the base for the 10 inch Model 1844 Seacoast  Mortar.  So you are building  an 8.8 inch Seacoast mortar. Coehorn had flat bases.

Do you have a metal cutting vertical band saw, cut the steel with that.  Tracy says it works well just not as fast as a cutting torch.  When Tracy speaks, I listen.

I believe the cross pieces on this base were wood.  You should be able to scale that picture I posted. 

[JeffG]

Keep it going!  Things are looking very interesting!!

[Winger Ed.]

You should be able to scale that picture I posted.

Thanks.  That's the design I'm going for.  I've got that drawing, and was sort of freehanding the upscale of it on the 2 x 12.
My freehanding/drafting skills are a little more minimal than I'd originally thought. 
With all the interest, help, & attention this project has generated- I'll do the grid/scale method and enlarge it properly. 
(I feel like a kid that got caught trying to do something the fastest and easiest way they thought they could get away with)

I don't have ready access to a big enough band saw, or 1" plate at the moment.
I do however have a home/small shop plasma cutter that will cut up to 5/16ths steel,
and getting 1/4" plate is pretty easy.
I can cut 6 of the patterns (for each side) from 1/4 inch plate, punch several (offset) either 1" or 2" holes in them,
and weld them to each other forming a stack.
To make it look like one solid slab of steel for each side:
I can weld a 1 & 1/2 wide strip of ribbon all the way around the edges.
Naturally, it wouldn't be as strong as a solid sheet of 1 or 2", but I can't imagine that it would fail under recoil.

Another feature I'll be doing for the barrel is to make a 1/4" thick 'doughnut' to weld inside and on top of the breech plug.
I didn't want to leave the gap between the plug & barrel, but didn't want to just fill it with Lead or cement either.
I figure I can fill the void with cement or tile grout, then wiggle the ring down onto it pushing out any excess.
Next- pull it out, clean everything, then weld the doughnut all the way around both edges. 
That way, it shouldn't ever blow down, and there won't be any inner welds exposed to powder gases that I can't see.
 
 
 

 

[Cat Whisperer]

Hmmm.

A sketch would help.

[dan610324]

how have you made it ??
isnt it any powder chamber ??

[Double D]

Forget the ring.  Every place you weld the ring,  is going to is going to make a place for corrosion to start.  That's why you didn't just weld the mouth of  the chamber to the bottom of the tube.

You still  have the issue at the bottom of the tube, but it is further away and opposite of the direction blast and subject to  reduce pressures. .  Also the chamber this design is welded to the  Trunnion to control if the tube lets go. Each time you time you clean the mortar you need to be sure you clean and dry the bottom of the  tube.  Each time you take thge mortar out to shoot you need inspect the interiosection where the chamber come through the tube for rust and corrosion.

Don't pour lead or cement down in the bottom either.  Black powder fowling will get between the walls and filler and rot you  tube out.

[Winger Ed.]

Black powder fowling will get between the walls and filler and rot your  tube out.

That makes sense.  Sometimes I just look for things to weld on.......

I took it back to the shop to do more welding/filling in the shape of the back end, and steel for the skid got ordered today.
By the time it gets picked up this Sat., I should have all the gridwork done & a full size side panel template ready by then.

I got the fuse hole liner threaded this afternoon--- that was like wresteling with the devil!
I drilled a 1/4" hole through & into the powder chamber.  It came out into the chamber less than 1/4" from the back/bottom of it.
The threaded part is for a coarse threaded (3" long) 1/2" bolt.  It bottoms out a 1/4" from the chamber's inside wall.
That should keep the chamber pressure from trying to spit out the fuse liner.

Thanks again for all the help & interest, I'll try & get a updated picture tomorrow. 

[Winger Ed.]

Well, I got a little more done on it.

I'm about done welding on the barrel, except for making the 2 small pieces that go from the trunion up the sides at the rear. 
The rest of the 'smooth/cast look' I'm trying to get for the base I'll do with a polyester filler.

The 4 sides of the sled are cut out of 1/4" plate.
I'll be making a inner framework between them with 1 & 1/4" square tubing,
with a band of 2" flat bar going around the edges.
For the inverted "T" looking panels- also in 1/4" plate,
they'll get a framework of 1/4" square stock around & inside them so that the panels will look 1/2" thick.

For now- the next step is drilling the 8 bolt holes going through the sides,
bolting all 6 panels together and grinding the edges so they that all are exactly the same shape.
I used a plasma cutter, and the outline/edges have a few dips & doodles... 
This thing is comong up to be pretty heavy.  It feels like about 300 pounds so far.
There's plenty more still to add- all the plates in between the sides, and the 2" band around the sides.
 

[Double D]

Looking good!

You really do need to look into one of the free photo host sites to post pictures.

[Winger Ed.]

Looking good!You really do need to look into one of the free photo host sites to post pictures.

Thanks. 
And I will,,,,,, I've just been busier than a cat in the sandbox, and haven't quite done it yet.

[willdj79]

Looks like it is coming along nicely. I had started a bowling ball mortar about 8 years ago and when i hit a road block on getting a good Oxy tank i put it aside. The project has came back to life since i have seen a bunch of scrap tanks in front of a local scrap yard. So far what i have got done so far is the trunnion bar which is about 2 1/2 x 15" lg and the powder chamber which is 5" in diameter and 6" lg with 3 oz. chamber. The cannon that i got the idea from on the internet had the powder chamber welded on the back of the tank. I think that it would be better to have the chamber go up inside the tank to where the tank is touching the trunnion. This would keep the pressures away from the weld and allow the ball to sit better on the charge. I like how you have the rings on the tank. What did you use for it or did you just find a piece of tube that would fit ?

[Winger Ed.]

I like how you have the rings on the tank. What did you use for it or did you just find a piece of tube that would fit ?

Thanks.  The rings are just to make it look more like the orig. cast ones, as is the rounded over bottom.
I've got 2-3 other posts that have more detail about how I did it, but they're sort of scattered around.

Briefly- the large ring is made from the unused/lower part of the tank. 
I split the 'ring', wedged it apart, then drove it down onto the barrel by pounding a block of wood with a 8pound hammer.
It left approx. a 2" gap that I laid a piece of flat bar in, then welded.
It came out OK, but I still have the seam located on the bottom the barrel.
The small ring is a piece of flat bar that I clamped and pounded into a round shape useing what remained of the cut off section of tank as a mandrel.  It has 1/2" holes a few inches apart that are 'puddle' welded to hold it on the barrel. 
There are no weld seams going around the edges of the rings. 

In hindsight:
Just for looks, I should have used the cutoff part of the tank to double the thickness of the barrel, then put the rings over it.
Its too late for that now.  If I made the barrel thicker, the trunion would be a little short to fit the sled.


The breech plug is 6" round stock, 7" long.
Only the last inch is sticking out, and has the 2" x 16" trunion welded onto it.
I notched out the trunion a inch so it would look more like it was sticking out of the barrel instead of added onto it.

With the extra inch of breech plug,
I could grind it in the rounded over shape without losing any of the full 4" thickness behind the chamber. 

[Double D]

This media file is in the public domain in the United States.

James River, Va. Work party and mortars at "Butler's Crow's Nest"
10-inch seacoast mortars, Model 1841, being emplaced near Butler’s Crows Nest near Dutch Gap, Viginia.

[GGaskill]

You really do need to look into one of the free photo host sites to post pictures.

The only problem with free photo hosting sites is that they eventually want money or they delete your pictures, which makes old threads less valuable because the images are mostly gone.  I recently got a domain name and web hosting with godaddy where I can store my images and they won't go away unless I stop paying.  The cost is relatively little and you get a lot of space.  I may end up sharing it.

[Zulu]

I've been on Photobucket and My Hosted Pics since I joined GBO and I've never been asked for any money. 
Zulu

[Double D]

The free sites usually restrict band width or size of pictures or amount of pictures. If you exceed your bandwidth or storage allowances they shut off the feed from their site. 

Another thing you should keep in mind with the free sights, is that you may be surrendering your exclusive copyright.  Your photo's may be available to anyone who wants to use them or see them.  Photobucket does that. 

 I have a number of free accounts so I can advise you folks on how post pictures.    I have, and have had since 2001 a pay photohost with 4800 pictures and 1.59 Gb of photo and have paid $24 since I started and it well worth it, and prefer it.


And now back to the the wing-wiper bowling ball mortar....Semper Fi.

[MikeR C]

A companion picture to the one DD posted. I Really like the 10in.

[Winger Ed.]

A companion picture to the one DD posted. I Really like the 10in.

Mike & DD-------- Thanks for those pictures.
I don't know how many hours I've spent digging around, looking for historic pictures.
Ones that showed these things at angles other than from the side.
But; I hadn't seen, or found those two.

I'll be building the mid-section, between the sides from layers and spacers of 1/4" plate.
I was almost stumped on how to do the 'Middle between the sides'.
Do I make it to look like big slabs of wood, to sort of 'fit' between the pictured bolts?
Or, build & weld the plates to look:
Like the 'sled' was one, big, giant, cast Iron 'thing',,,,,,,  cast & made from 4-5 pieces, and bolted together.

Sure- Mine is being made from a welding gas bottle.,
However, I do want it to look as althentic as I can.

[Winger Ed.]

No new progress this week.  Just alot of grinding.
You know how that is: Ya spend hours of work, and it don't look like ya did anything.

..................
Something that is pretty cool though-
I save & scrounge/recycle most of what I build my own stuff with.
The 3" x 1/2" Steel I'm using for that piece next to the barrel,
that is sort of a rectangle, going up from the trunion----
On mine-- I got it/made it from the crating/packageing material from a safe I restored last year.
---This was a old safe used to hold the (MOST) important documents, the printing plates for thier money-and Postage stamps of the Main, and most highly secured, heavily guarded, National Bank vault, belonging to the Confederate States of America.

[Double D]

Your nickname, worn with honor and  pride I thought, when a member of Uncle Sam's Misguided Children, was wing wiper.  They called me that when I was with  MABS-13 at Cheery Point where I ran your 400 cycle generators for avionics and the 30kws for your ice cream & coffee machines.

Then they sent me to fight the war where I ran the 75 kws borrowed from the  Navy to run the lights and elevators for the  Generals and Admirals at Camp Smith.  I am proud to say during the war the entire time I was in Hawaii, Hawaii was not invaded. The only thing they called me there was idiot for letting the diesel levels get to low.

Priceless moments that can only be truely shared by that brotherhood called  Marine. Semper fi.


Now back to serious stuff.  I got the complete plan set for that mortar from AOP, would you like for me to scan some of the details in.  Of course you would, so I will.


Click on this link for full size scan: http://www.fototime.com/61D509EC63DBAFC/orig.jpg


Click on this link for full size scan: http://www.fototime.com/FA66BD352465352/orig.jpg

The front and rear transoms are wood.  The middle transom is brass

The highly cherished and much revered Kewpie award originated by Seacoast Artillery for superior performance, and award by this moderator for outstanding cannon pictures and other whimsical great deeds,  can only go to a posted picture.  The kewpie can't be awarded to a picture attachment because of the mechanics of the board software.

[Zulu]

by Winger Ed
"I don't know how many hours I've spent digging around, looking for historic pictures."

Winger Ed,
Don't know if you have this web site or not but it is one of the best I've found for looking at Civil War Pictures.  You can really spend some time looking at this site.
Zulu

http://www.steveisler.com/Civil%20War/files/artillery.htm

[Zulu]

Here is another great gallery.
Zulu

http://www.pictures-civil-war.com/a-z_galleries/a-z_galleries.html

[Winger Ed.]

Your nickname, worn with honor and  pride I thought, when a member of Uncle Sam's Misguided Children, was wing wiper.  They called me that when I was with  MABS-13 at Cheery Point

You are correct. 
I had no idea you were also a member of the 'brotherhood'.
The screen name I've used for the 10-12 years-
came from a forum board I am/was a 'plankholder' on, used to belong to, and moderate.
We had 3 different 'Eds' on it. 
They called me Winger Ed. to keep from being confused with 'Grunt Ed' & the Super Grunt Ed.
I've just used it everywhere since then.

On the mortar,, I'm still grinding..............
I also got a little more welding to do on the barrel.  Then, as Hockey players would say-
I'll be ready to put a Legal Body Check on the dreaded mid section between the sides of the sled.

[Winger Ed.]

Priceless moments?
Yeah.  I carry around almost 8 years worth of them.  All gathered without a Combat Tour.

Once again,  I have to close, and say, "I can't thank all of you enough for all the help you've been".

[Winger Ed.]

A little progress---
The sides are 1/4" with 1 1/2 tubing & angle to spread them apart.
With the thinest 2" flatstock I could get-- a little less than 1/8th" welded all the way around-
And a little Bondo before its painted,,,,, it will look like solid 2" plate.

In a few days, I'll be cutting out the plates for the middle section.
I'll make the middle part out of steel plate, then glue a 1/4" Oak veneired plywood over them,
so they look more like the original.
I'll scrounge the Brass somewhere and screw it down on top of the plywood.

Somewhere along the way- I'm not sure how it happened, but:
The big "U" where the trunion sits may be farther back than it should be.
I'll test fit the barrel next week and see.  I can cut & move it forward, but I sure don't want to. 







The weight is sure adding up.
Each of these side plates feel like about 120 pounds, and the barrel has got to be about that much also.

AHH!!
I finally figured out the picture thing!

[willdj79]

I think that the seat for the trunnion looks to be in the right spot. As long as you have it about centered on the carriage and space on either side to accommodate the cap square with fasteners.

[Winger Ed.]

I think that the seat for the trunnion looks to be in the right spot.

I sure hope so.  When I made the graph/grid deal and enlarged it, I ended up with 1/2"= 4 1/2" upscale.
Then made a plywood template as a pattern to cut out the steel plates. 
I propped the barrel up on wooden blocks to determined where the trunnion seats would fit the barrel leaving about 3" for the elevation knob and have a few threads showing. 
However- looking at other ones, it appears a little more to the rear than 'normal' for when the barrel is parallel to the uphill side of the carriage that holds the elevation screw.