thats for the help, I have the range to get over 200yrd at a couple places I hunt, but my self imposed limit will be 200, but like I said most of my shooting will be with in 100yrds. currently I'm using a CVA eclipse M/L and Its fun to shoot but its a pita to clean and I haven't been to impressed with groupings from it, and my POI seems to change drastically from day to day. From the sounds of it I guess I will keep an eye out for a 20 USH. My biggest reason for the 12ga was because 12ga ammo is very plentiful in both foster and sabots in my area, but 20ga is alot harder to find, especially sabots. I guess I will just need to make a trip to the big box store and stock up.