French 75's in action

[Cannoneer]

Here's some interesting archival film footage of the venerable French 75mm being fired (I would guess) circa WWI. I'd like to know the reason for raising the cannon by the trail and tapping the muzzle of the barrel on the ground, and there's some footage near the beginning that seems to show the gun being fired with the barrel locked (the recoil mechanism not being used). In any event there is film here that definitely provides proof that these cannon could fire a good many rounds in quick succession, and if you watch closely you'll also see why a soldier should keep on his toes around horses (that is if he wants to remain on his feet).

[bilmac]

I think they were dropping the trails to seat the spades. You will notice they only did it in that one sequence, whereas in other sequences they shot many rounds and didn't do it. I would say they had just moved in to a new position and that is part of the set up SOP.

[Cat Whisperer]

That makes perfect sense.   After setting by hand the first round really sets them in.  But they need to be set in deep enough so they dig in.

[RocklockI]

I did some searching on these awhile back .

Somewhere I read that the 75mm shells were designed to actually skip off the dirt (direct fire) then explode 1/500th(iirc) of a sec so that it would explode at head level after hitting the earth .

A sort of bouncing betty shell .

Gary

[Winger Ed.]

That makes perfect sense.   

Concur.

That's the secret to the 'French 75's' success..was its recoil dampener.
Softening the recoil pulse- meant that ya didn't have to move, and reposition the entire gun between every shot.. 
So, it could be fired, more accurately, faster.
It only had to be checked and re-positioned after every 5th or so shot to maintain its 'prime' acuraccy.
With the effect of dampening the recoil-- that also meant the carriage didn't have to be so 'beefey'.
Which;
in turn made it fairly light for its firepower, and let it be VERY mobile. 
Mobile by truck, or even (medium sized) helicopters.
That's why the USMC used its basic design-in conflicts- as late as,,,,,,
Oh, the late 1980's or so...   

[GGaskill]

And you can see why the French shell production plan of 1500 shells per day (theatre wide) was only enough to keep up with the use of a handful of guns versus the 5000 or so deployed on the whole front.  This led to a catastrophic shortage for much of the early war.

[Winger Ed.]

And you can see why the French shell production plan of 1500 shells per day (theatre wide) was only enough to keep up with the use of a handful of guns versus the 5000 or so deployed on the whole front.  This led to a catastrophic shortage for much of the early war.

1500 rounds producted a day?
In battle, that is about what it'd take to support or 'feed' (only) 2-3 guns.

That-
And randomly executing a few dozen Officers & NCOs for 'not fighting hard enough' when a battle was lost:
Its a small wonder we had to send Sgt. York & a million or so of his buds over there to drag thier 'transoms'
out of the fire back then.

French history---
From the incredibly good, all the way over to the shamefully bad, it never ceases to amaze me.

[bilmac]

I guess skipping their bullets was the forerunner of proximity fuses.


I think the American version was the 75mm pack howitzer. It was used by the Wyo Guard for awhile. Anyhow, I have a dud 75mm shell laying in the yard of a place I just bought. I was just going to call EOD about it, but after thinking about it, they will just want to blow it in place and I have too much stuff around it that would be damaged. I guess I will dig a deep hole and drag it in with a long rope.

[Cat Whisperer]

...
I was just going to call EOD about it, but after thinking about it, they will just want to blow it in place and I have too much stuff around it that would be damaged. I guess I will dig a deep hole and drag it in with a long rope.

We would prefer that you called, rather than hearing about it on the national news.

That way it is resolved, rather than burried for the next dude who digs deeper.

 

[Double D]

I guess skipping their bullets was the forerunner of proximity fuses.


I think the American version was the 75mm pack howitzer. It was used by the Wyo Guard for awhile. Anyhow, I have a dud 75mm shell laying in the yard of a place I just bought. I was just going to call EOD about it, but after thinking about it, they will just want to blow it in place and I have too much stuff around it that would be damaged. I guess I will dig a deep hole and drag it in with a long rope.

Doubt EOD would blow it in  place. Even if the did they would do everything possible to minimize damage. On the other hand if you drag it with a rope and it is alive round you could do the damage your self moving it. 

What even makes you even think its a live round?

[Cannoneer]

I think they were dropping the trails to seat the spades. You will notice they only did it in that one sequence, whereas in other sequences they shot many rounds and didn't do it. I would say they had just moved in to a new position and that is part of the set up SOP.

That makes perfect sense.   After setting by hand the first round really sets them in.  But they need to be set in deep enough so they dig in.

I think that is some sound reasoning, gentlemen; slap the trail into the ground to plant the spade plate, then fire a round or two with the barrel locked, so as to set the trail more firmly in the ground.

[bilmac]

I'm just guessing what it is, I cant even see the front of the shell, it is covered with leaves and duff. What I can see on the rear is what looks like the brass driving band like we had on the 155s we used to shoot. Only this driving band is engraved with the rifling , meaning that it has been fired. I suppose that someone thought it would make a cool souvenir and brought it from the guard camp at Gurnsey where they used to shoot them.

[GGaskill]

Maybe is is a non-explosive training round.  See if you can find any markings on it and look them up.  Use  leaf blower to uncover it.

[Cannoneer]

I'd be on the horn with the authorities postehaste, letting the people that are trained to deal with explosives handle the situation.

[Cat Whisperer]

I'd be on the horn with the authorities postehaste, letting the people that are trained to deal with explosives handle the situation.

WHEN it goes off, would you prefer that you be handling it or someone from EOD?

Is it blue in color? 

[Winger Ed.]

I was just going to call EOD about it,

No, no, no,,,,,,,, Where's the fun in that?

[bilmac]

In WW II the EOD guys in England used to move all kinds of duds around using ropes. I can loop a parachute cord around the back of this thing loosely without it even feeling it, and then dribble some epoxy over it so the cord will stay, then hook on with a couple hundred feet of rope get behind some cover and drag it into a deep hole.

The thing just about has to have been transported a couple hundred miles already to get it from the nearest live fire range to my place. It may not even have a fuse. As far as I know dynamite is the only explosive that becomes sensitive to shock, and since artillery bullets are meant to get a real strong shock when they're shot, I don't suppose there was ever any dynamite used in artillery shells.

Jeese, I shouldn't have even mentioned it, all this pressure and sound advice. That's why I don't want to go to the "experts". I know there will only be one solution for them, slap some C4 on it and blow up my ditch bank which will take years to restabilize, and a nice little shed. You guys think you are putting on some pressure, the "spurts" would really crank it up and probably find some obscure law to force me into letting them blow up the ditch.

This ditch is perched on the side of a hill, the bomb is on the downhill side. Blow a big hole right there and the water will be sure to try to escape and flood me and my neighbor and shut off the irrigation water for all the folks downstream. It isn't a matter of just throwing some dirt back in and tamping it, the soil is sand, Tree roots and grass are holding it very well now, but destroy them and it could maybe take a cement liner to make it stay.

The shell is OD which if I remember is HE. I'm trying to remember, is blue inert? 

[Double D]

In WWII a lot EOD guys lost their lives also.

EOD isn't going to blow a big smoking hole in your ditch.   If they feel the need to blow it in place they are going to use a little bitty dab of explosive, just enough to break the shell apart.  Or they may use one of those new flare like devices used for mine clearance and burn it.  If they destroy it on site all you will have at worse is a scorched mark on the dirt. 

More than likely they will haul it away and dispose of it.

If it is a live shell, burying it only makes it some one elses surprise at a later date and maybe is more hazardous due to decomposiiton.

Yes you are getting pressure, you will always see pressure from this corner when it comes to safety to do the right thing.   
 

[Cat Whisperer]

Ahhh what we do for the rush of adrenaline!


 

[lance]

That is an interesting video, i confess-even though i own a 75 made by Dom of Carpenters Replica artillery, i watched the video to see about the horses.
Now i'm going out to the horse barn, and tell my horses just how good they got it.

[Cat Whisperer]

That is an interesting video, i confess-even though i own a 75 made by Dom of Carpenters Replica artillery, i watched the video to see about the horses.
Now i'm going out to the horse barn, and tell my horses just how good they got it.

Are we planning something horse-drawn?   

[Cannoneer]

Lance,
You got me to thinking that even up to and incuding WWII, horses used in wartime have had to endure some brutal circumstances.

[lance]

That is an interesting video, i confess-even though i own a 75 made by Dom of Carpenters Replica artillery, i watched the video to see about the horses.
Now i'm going out to the horse barn, and tell my horses just how good they got it.

Are we planning something horse-drawn?   

Didn't plan on it, just went to the horse barn, to tell the horses to be glad they had a barn to hang out in.
There are some big steel wheels here on the farm, about 8 sets, i guess i could make a big 75 with a pair of the wheels.

Boom J, you are right about that, and if they don't fix these high gas prices, everybody is going to have to go back to using horses.

[GGaskill]

... and if they don't fix these high gas prices, ...

The only people who can "fix" the prices are the customers.  When gas went over $4 a gallon, they stopped buying and the price came back down under $3.  The experts were predicting $5 a gallon but it never got close.  $4 was too much. 

A government price "fix" will just create a shortage.  There is too much demand elsewhere in the world for people to sell below market price in the US.

[Cat Whisperer]

>>There are some big steel wheels here on the farm, about 8 sets, i guess i could make a big 75 with a pair of the wheels.

That's enough for a battery of 75's!      

and a few spares.

[Cat Whisperer]

Lance --

I was wondering where you kept the 1/6 scale horses ...   

I have no  '75's in any scale; but I can bring over a Krupp when it gets here.  (AND ammo)

[lance]

Lance --

I was wondering where you kept the 1/6 scale horses ...   

I have no  '75's in any scale; but I can bring over a Krupp when it gets here.  (AND ammo)

Tim, you can bring over a Krupp, anytime you want, just call or e-mail ahead, with me going through chemo, some days i don't feel very well.
One thing about your Krupp, i bet it don't shoot as good as mine or is as much fun to shoot!

[Cat Whisperer]

I think I heard the gauntlet hitting the floor.

Tough to compare the Krupp to a baloonengepopper - different scales entirely.

BUT, we shall see, one of these fine wintry Virginia days....

 

Besides, we both need to take pix of the other and the guns in action for the calendar!

[lance]

I think I heard the gauntlet hitting the floor.

Tough to compare the Krupp to a baloonengepopper - different scales entirely.

BUT, we shall see, one of these fine wintry Virginia days....

 

Besides, we both need to take pix of the other and the guns in action for the calendar!

Well i hope it warms up to 50 or maybe 60, 70 would be great. I don't know why you want a picture of me? The chemo has made my hair fall out, including eyebrows and eye lashes. And try and get it right, i don't have a baloonengepopper, i have a Krupp breechloading Ballonabwehrkanone. If we have to shoot on a winter day, can we build some yankee snowmen and shoot them with the cannons?

[Cannoneer]

I found this pamphlet the other day while looking for more info on the “75”, and learned that the reason that the trail was lifted off the ground to a certain angle was to enable a mechanism to lower the shoes/blocks down, so that the wheels were literally supported on locked shoes that raised them off the ground, making a stationary three-point (the third point being the trail spade) firing platform. The firing of the gun with the barrel rigid was done in order to more firmly set this three point platform into the ground.
I also remembered that Dominic incorporated this feature on one of his “75” models, and that he had posted a video of its operation here some time ago.

This pamphlet published by the War Department in 1917 is a reprint of a British article first published in 1915.
Notes On The French 75-MM. Gun - PP. 7-8, Fig. 3.
http://www.archive.org/stream/notesonfrenchmm00usgoog#page/n10/mode/2up


An article on the French 75mm cannon
http://www.landships.freeservers.com/french_75.htm

"But this wasn't the only invention in the "75"; the "75" was really a whole system of new concepts. The hydro-pneumatic recoil system was also combined with a so called trail or earth spade at the end of the trail, that cut into the ground, holding the gun steady (of course an impossibility in a rigid carriage as this would have caused the gun to topple over due to the force of the recoil), and what the French called an Abatage, or wheel anchor; the abatage fixed the wheels as well with the help of a metal shoe, placed underneath the wheels, rigidly attached to the trail, when the gun was emplaced. 
This meant that the gun (if properly placed) could be fired without moving at all, which meant that the gun layer didn't have to reposition the gun after each shot, perhaps only checking it, and that it could be reloaded a whole lot faster, as the loader only had to wait for the gun tube to recoil back, before putting another round into the breech. Also; the gun layer only had the responsibility for the side sighting, the elevation was left to the breech operator to the right, an arrangement that also speeded up the working of the gun."

Drawing of wheel anchor taken from the above article/site.