Author Topic: the obamination sold us out.  (Read 1688 times)

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Offline powderman

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the obamination sold us out.
« on: January 06, 2011, 12:55:33 PM »
Quote
i read in news max how the Russian defense minister was making fun of how Obama didn't know what he was doing when he negotiated the new start treaty. he claimed that in the preamble it was made clear that the U.S. would not be allowed to develop a missile defence from incoming ICBMs and that we had bargained away our ICBMs and submarine ICBMs and that the treaty was legally binding and we would not be able to go back to the negotiation table to correct this monstrosity. what really is beyond my comprehension is that congress and the chiefs of staff had told him this was a bad treaty and had not been studied thoroughly enough.


I read this elsewhere but still believe he knew exactly what he was doing. Just another step in his plan to destroy us. POWDERMAN.  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline LunaticFringeInc

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Re: the obamination sold us out.
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2011, 04:04:46 PM »
I think he knew exactly what he was doing.  Question is why is he doing it?  No one could possibly be that delusional and detached from reality.

Offline powderman

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Re: the obamination sold us out.
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2011, 04:43:41 PM »
The obamination has only one goal, and that is to destroy America as we know it, and he has a big start on it. He has support right here on this board. POWDERMAN.  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline Pat/Rick

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Re: the obamination sold us out.
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2011, 05:44:15 PM »
The downward spiral continues.

Offline scootrd

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Re: the obamination sold us out.
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2011, 06:04:29 PM »
 Serious question

How many nuke missile's does it take to destroy the whole earth?

I wonder if anyone has done studies?
I would surmise between both powers we have more than enough at our disposals to make all uninhabitable 10x over.
I think we all can afford to lose quite a few.

"if your old flathead doesn't leak you are out of oil"
"I have strong feelings about gun control. If there is a gun around I want to be controlling it." - Clint Eastwood
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjaman Franklin
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Offline Pat/Rick

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Re: the obamination sold us out.
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2011, 06:11:35 PM »
Don't know about now, but my brother was a submariner in the 70's and told me that just the pacific fleet of submarines had enough nuke warheads to destroy the world 7 times. Seems that's plenty  ;)

 Still, myself I do not like armament restriction treaties being signed, by those who would like to see the collapse of the USA. But I would have to agree that we could loose a few and still have plenty to distribute quite freely if the need arose. Good points scootrd.

Offline scootrd

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Re: the obamination sold us out.
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2011, 06:25:55 PM »
The new treaty reduces US 1,762 warheads (on the books) and Russia's 1,741 to 1550 each,
and the number of delivery vehicles for those warheads US currently 1,188 (on the books) and Russia's 809 (on the books)
to 800 each.

I think Both powers will still be sufficiently armed under the new treaty.  I don't see how reducing to those numbers creates any kinds of exposures for either.

I dont see the big  -  Chicken Little " The sky is falling "  syndrome others are vocalizing.
I say to them don't worry we will still have enough to annihilate all that is good in the world
and reduce our planet to ashes x times over still.

- The signing of the treaty is a step in the right direction for evolving humans and It's a non issue for me. Those reduction numbers do not in any way make either country less safe, it just puts a cap on the insanity of overkill and moves us all as a species in the right direction .  - JMHO

 -  Id be more concerned with how both countries will dispose of reduced Nuke material safely so it doesn't slip into the wrong hands.
"if your old flathead doesn't leak you are out of oil"
"I have strong feelings about gun control. If there is a gun around I want to be controlling it." - Clint Eastwood
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjaman Franklin
"It's better to be hated for who you are , then loved for who your not." - Van Zant

Offline Pat/Rick

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Re: the obamination sold us out.
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2011, 08:05:09 PM »
 Id be more concerned with how both countries will dispose of reduced Nuke material safely so it doesn't slip into the wrong hands. 

That is probably the most  important point of the whole topic now.

Offline guzzijohn

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Re: the obamination sold us out.
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2011, 02:58:28 AM »
This board has a whole barnyard of chicken littles! :o
GuzziJohn

Offline turk762

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Re: the obamination sold us out.
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2011, 03:29:07 AM »
I think they are more concerned about the restrictions of a missile defense system, NOT the elimination of weopons. Either you guys are overlooking that or lack the common sense to see, ( I hope it is oversight).
 I dont know much about this treaty so I will not pretend that I do, but if we did agree to not build missile defense this could be very dangerous for us, we may have a treaty with Russia, but they are not the only country with nuclear weopons that we may need to defend ourselves against.
 This would be like being in a bar fight and promising that you will not block a punch to the face, because the other guy doesnt know how to defend himself.

Offline powderman

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Re: the obamination sold us out.
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2011, 05:32:17 AM »
Quote
This would be like being in a bar fight and promising that you will not block a punch to the face, because the other guy doesnt know how to defend himself. 
 
 
 
Exactly. Wouldn't surprise me in the least. Theres nothing he won't do to  destroy us. The obamination supporters must be real proud. POWDERMAN.  >:( >:(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: the obamination sold us out.
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2011, 06:01:27 AM »
Guy's , Guy's , Guy's Nancy P told him you have to sign/pass it to see whats in it . Business as always ..
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline powderman

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Re: the obamination sold us out.
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2011, 06:40:09 AM »
I don't think congress had a say in it, the obamination did all the agreeing. POWDERMAN.  >:( >:(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline Junior1942

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Re: the obamination sold us out.
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2011, 06:44:34 AM »
Quote
.......I read this elsewhere but still believe he knew exactly what he was doing. Just another step in his plan to destroy us. POWDERMAN.  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
PM, as I've said before, if this president said apple pie and motherhood were good things you'd claim he was for obesity and promiscuous sex.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: the obamination sold us out.
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2011, 06:50:06 AM »
I don't think congress had a say in it, the obamination did all the agreeing. POWDERMAN.  >:( >:(

congress may rubber stamp it but they must approve it
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Hooker

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Re: the obamination sold us out.
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2011, 07:43:01 AM »
This board has a whole barnyard of chicken littles! :o
GuzziJohn

No worse than the ostriches running around here. ;)

Pat 
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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: the obamination sold us out.
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2011, 09:25:15 AM »
Problem is, we not only have Russia to worry about, but also China.  They are upgrading and modernizing their weapons.  The stronger we are, the better position we have in dealing with problems.  The stronger we are noone wants to mess with us.  Reagan had a 600 ship navy, and increased our missile potential and was working on missile defence....The Soviet Union Colapsed.  Wake up Guzzi.  That is historical fact.  

Offline Pat/Rick

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Re: the obamination sold us out.
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2011, 10:42:57 AM »
DD the news the other night had a clip on where china rolled out their own stealth plane as well. Seems that even though our military budget is higher (due to a deployed military) china is catching up awful fast. The aircraft is the size of the old F-111. Stealth and the reason for having it is first strike capability. Yes we have quite enough nukes, won't argue that, but we sure don't need treaties with potential enemies either.  ;)

Though I was still in grammer school the phrase chicken little and ostrich were used during the cuban missile crisis as well. Be what you may, both sides have valid points.

Offline powderman

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Re: the obamination sold us out.
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2011, 11:37:24 AM »
Hard telling the damage done when clinton was giving them secret technology and playing up to the chinese. They are a huge threat. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline Gary G

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Re: the obamination sold us out.
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2011, 12:25:33 PM »
The military industrial complex loves you guys!
 Debt will be our destruction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures
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Offline crustylicious

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Re: the obamination sold us out.
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2011, 02:52:24 PM »
For the pany wetting chicken littles, here's a conservative view of the preamble:

http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2010/12/20/new-starts-preamble/

Of all the strange arguments against the treaty, this one has to be the strangest. The preamble is non-binding. What matters for the purposes of ratification is how our government understands the preamble. The resolution of ratification is one way of expressing this understanding. The resolution can be amended without Russian approval, and it is legally binding on future administrations. Treaty opponents keep insisting on amending non-binding language in the premable because they don’t actually want to improve the treaty. If they did, they would make amendments to the resolution, and give their recommendations the force of law. That isn’t what they want. As they have made quite clear, they want to prevent ratification. They may succeed, but no one should have any illusions that this has anything to do with defending American security and rights.

Treaty opponents claim to be concerned with the possibility that the treaty limits missile defense. It does not. The administration insists that it does not understand the treaty to limit missile defense in any meaningful way. Treaty opponents’ repeated demands for assurances from the Kremlin have a strained, desperate quality to them. As the Arms Control Association’s summary states very clearly, there is nothing at all remarkable about the statement in the preamble:

Finally, both sides have made unilateral statements about the relationship between missile defense deployments and the treaty. These statements are not legally binding, and similar statements were issued with previous treaties, including START I.

As for “linkage,” it is common sense to acknowledge that there is a relationship (or “interrelationship,” as the preamble says) between offensive and defensive arms. Acknowledging the existence of such a relationship is very different from stating that defensive arms are unacceptable, should not be developed, or must be limited. The preamble says nothing like that. This is the precise language from the preamble:

Recognizing the existence of the interrelationship between strategic offensive arms and strategic defensive arms, that this interrelationship will become more important as strategic nuclear arms are reduced, and that current strategic defensive arms do not undermine the viability and effectiveness of the strategic offensive arms of the Parties [bold mine-DL],

In other words, the preamble includes an acknowledgment by the Russians that U.S. missile defense does not undermine the Russian strategic arsenal. What this means is that the preamble rejects a standard Russian complaint against U.S. missile defense. Of course, the preamble is non-binding. The preamble does not require the Russians to embrace U.S. missile defense plans, but neither does it limit what the U.S. can do. One could say with even more justification that this passage in the preamble affirms U.S. missile defense. If the preamble were legally binding, it would be members of the Duma complaining about this section rather than U.S. Senators. However, the discussion is irrelevant because the preamble is non-binding. Objections to the treaty on account of this non-binding language are without merit. It drives home just how pathetically weak the anti-ratification position is that this is one of its better arguments.

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Offline teamnelson

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Re: the obamination sold us out.
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2011, 03:49:43 PM »
The CNO, ADM Roughead, was at my site today, and among other things he mentioned that the future of missile defense from the Navy perspective is going to be shipborne. He also mentioned where those ships will be increasing their patrol presence. Also mentioned that the Aegis anti-missile system is under testing here in the islands, for fielding in a new role. Seems to me like we're hedging our bets, or at least planning to. He also mentioned that funding is of course always an issue. So if the current plans are funded and followed through, our ability to defend against missiles will have drastically improved - that's a good thing. As long as its funded and followed through ...

Of course, I've also read a lot of what the Chinese and Russians think of this, preamble or not Crusty. They seem to think our current Administration is a sucker. Wouldn't it be important if the other signatory on the document saw things the way you'd like them to be? Ostriches and chickens will be proven over time, but unfortunately we may not have the luxury to say "I told you so" when the moment of truth comes.
held fast

Offline torpedoman

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Re: the obamination sold us out.
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2011, 04:35:22 PM »
I think they are more concerned about the restrictions of a missile defense system, NOT the elimination of weopons. Either you guys are overlooking that or lack the common sense to see, ( I hope it is oversight).
 I dont know much about this treaty so I will not pretend that I do, but if we did agree to not build missile defense this could be very dangerous for us, we may have a treaty with Russia, but they are not the only country with nuclear weopons that we may need to defend ourselves against.
 This would be like being in a bar fight and promising that you will not block a punch to the face, because the other guy doesnt know how to defend himself.

Yep it keeps us from wasting billions on a system that will not work. modern icbm's go into space dispense multiple warheads programed to fall on targets and by the time you realize it was not a typical communication satilite launch it is way too late to stop it. either that or a cruise missile at 50 ft off the deck. well under radar. the bright light and loud noise will be the first warning. As a side note were do you want to be in the event of a nuke attack?  Anywhere you can turn around and ask "what was that" is a good place.
the nation that forgets it defenders will itself be forgotten