Author Topic: US Rep. Shot in AZ  (Read 2145 times)

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Offline chutesnreloads

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Re: US Rep. Shot in AZ
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2011, 01:20:23 PM »
Yeah...that what I've been asking.Was there no one around with a CCW?If not ,why not?

Offline mrussel

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Re: US Rep. Shot in AZ
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2011, 05:41:04 PM »
Political assassinations are third world.  The vote is the correct way to respond, not the gun

Obama is turning us into a third world country, so way would you expect the people not to act as third world?

 Someone hit my car in a parking lot the other day and didnt leave a note. Damn that Obama.... (I guess we can blame anything on him,right) Seriously,you dont like Obama,I get it,but what in the world.

Offline saddlebum

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Re: US Rep. Shot in AZ
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2011, 06:05:00 PM »
It's a pretty obvious fact that the tone/attitude in the country has become toxic since Obama became president. Well actually, since he started campaigning for president. Racial tensions in the country are worse than they have been in at least 20yrs since Obama took office. Economy is in toilet and the Obama crew are pulling on the handle. As I look around at the corruption, the language, unrest and watch and listen to the news about the direction we are headed and Obama's big government socialistic policies and trashing of the constitution,.... I think "third world" is a valid discription of where we are headed since Obama took office.

Maybe just a coincidence? 

(I guess I really should give the Democrat congress of the last 4yrs some credit too.)
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Offline Spirithawk

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Re: US Rep. Shot in AZ
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2011, 06:26:13 PM »
It's no big secret that people are getting very fed up with the way things are going in this country. But fact is, this guy was a looney toon and could have picked anyone, for any reason, to shoot. In fact he did just that because he didn't just shoot Giffords but shot 17 others as well. Nothing really political about it. This was a mentally deranged guy that wanted to be infamous and if he couldn't have got a gun legally he'd have stolen one, used a car or a bomb! He'd have attacked anyone with a name. He got what he wanted, his name and face on every channel and in every paper. The media should cover such stories but they need to quit giving these idiots the infamy they desire!!!!! They feed on it! Report them as scum not worthy of showing their face nor mentioning their names more than once and you'll see a drop in such shootings. Also, as already mentioned, you can't legally carry on Government property nor most political meetings of any kind with few exceptions. I keep saying, if citizens with ccw's start shooting back these mass shootings will drop. Another reason they occur is because the shooters think themselves free and safe to do so. They start getting shot right off the bat and wanna bet people start thinking twice before trying and the numbers of them drop?

Offline magooch

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Re: US Rep. Shot in AZ
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2011, 03:48:30 AM »
I find it interesting that now some politicians and pundits are saying that all the loose nuts need to be locked up, or institutionalized.  That might be so, but I doubt there is enough money, or facilities...there are just too many Dumocrats.
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Offline saddlebum

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Re: US Rep. Shot in AZ
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2011, 03:50:40 AM »
I find it interesting that now some politicians and pundits are saying that all the loose nuts need to be locked up, or institutionalized.  That might be so, but I doubt there is enough money, or facilities...there are just too many Dumocrats.


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But really, who decides who is a nut and who is not?
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Offline Spirithawk

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Re: US Rep. Shot in AZ
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2011, 03:56:09 AM »
I find it interesting that now some politicians and pundits are saying that all the loose nuts need to be locked up, or institutionalized. 

Sounds good to me. we need a new president!  ;D


Offline powderman

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Re: US Rep. Shot in AZ
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2011, 04:06:01 AM »
Quote
I keep saying, if citizens with ccw's start shooting back these mass shootings will drop. Another reason they occur is because the shooters think themselves free and safe to do so.




SH.A big AMEN to that. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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Offline MGMorden

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Re: US Rep. Shot in AZ
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2011, 05:50:00 AM »
But really, who decides who is a nut and who is not?

That's part of what's scary coming out of this - possibly worse than the gun control issue.  This one shooting has really sparked up all sorts of attacks on our freedoms.

For one, you have too many suggesting that the media is at fault for "inciting" this behavior, with subtle hints that there should be limits as to what the media can do - for our own good of course.  A blatant attack on the first amendment there.

Secondly, there seems to be a lot of fuss over "why nobody did anything" about this guy who scared people.  The fact that until know he'd committed no crime is constantly overlooked.  What they're basically suggesting with this one incident is further steps down the path that we should be watching our neighbors and reporting "unusually" behavior.  Afterall, even if they've committed no crime, "unusual" people need to be locked away for our own protection right?  Completely open to abuse.

To many idiots are clamoring over each other hoping to legislate a "fix" to "make sure this doesn't happen again", when the reality is that you can't legislate tragedy out of life.  Reality isn't some novel where you can choose the way things unfold as you write it.  Reality is a cold and unforgiving mistress where sometimes sad and tragic events occur and there's nothing you can do about it except pickup the pieces and keep living life the best way you know how.

Offline beerbelly

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Re: US Rep. Shot in AZ
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2011, 06:17:19 AM »
I find it interesting that now some politicians and pundits are saying that all the loose nuts need to be locked up, or institutionalized

We had a majority of the nut cases in the country locked up in mental institution until the 1970s. Then the left wing went berserk, and screamed these people should be let out. There was no proof just because they were Looney tunes they were dangerous, and had to be set free!
   They went to court and won! The doors to the Looney bins were thrown open. So then we had most of these people on the streets home-less. They went from being cared for to home-less
  Then we began to get crimes committed by them. It had gotten worse over the years until we arrived at where we are today. It is very had to put someone in an institution today! 

Offline saddlebum

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Re: US Rep. Shot in AZ
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2011, 06:31:58 AM »
"For one, you have too many suggesting that the media is at fault for "inciting" this behavior, with subtle hints that there should be limits as to what the media can do - for our own good of course.  A blatant attack on the first amendment there."


Yep!
Crazy Clyburn is calling for a "New Fairness Doctrine", on top of more gun control......Icing on his cake I guess!

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/exploiting-tragedy-we-had-restraint-on-speech-back-then-rep-clyburn-calls-for-new-fairness-doctrine-gun-restrictions/

" FIREARMS STAND NEXT IN IMPORTANCE TO THE CONSTITUTION ITSELF. THEY ARE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE'S LIBERTY TEETH AND KEYSTONE UNDER INDEPENDENCE."       George Washington

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Offline MGMorden

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Re: US Rep. Shot in AZ
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2011, 10:12:58 AM »
"For one, you have too many suggesting that the media is at fault for "inciting" this behavior, with subtle hints that there should be limits as to what the media can do - for our own good of course.  A blatant attack on the first amendment there."


Yep!
Crazy Clyburn is calling for a "New Fairness Doctrine", on top of more gun control......Icing on his cake I guess!

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/exploiting-tragedy-we-had-restraint-on-speech-back-then-rep-clyburn-calls-for-new-fairness-doctrine-gun-restrictions/

Yep - attacking both the first AND the second amendments in one stroke there. and sadly he represents my district :(.  Unfortunately nobody I know voted for him last time around, so talking with the friends isn't likely to change much.

Offline Spirithawk

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Re: US Rep. Shot in AZ
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2011, 01:10:58 PM »
I'm not against the media reporting the news but they practicly make rock stars out of killers. It's bad enough this low life did the shootings but I resent being forced to see his face plastered every where I look! Why do you think he's smiling? They're giving him the attention he wants and he's relishing it! If the media wants to tell me something about him....tell me when they've injected the needle!

Offline powderman

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Re: US Rep. Shot in AZ
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2011, 01:41:01 PM »
Quote
They're giving him the attention he wants and he's relishing it!




I'd love to give him some attention, but he wouldn't like it. POWDERMAN.  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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Offline MGMorden

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Re: US Rep. Shot in AZ
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2011, 05:38:51 PM »
I'm not against the media reporting the news but they practicly make rock stars out of killers. It's bad enough this low life did the shootings but I resent being forced to see his face plastered every where I look! Why do you think he's smiling? They're giving him the attention he wants and he's relishing it! If the media wants to tell me something about him....tell me when they've injected the needle!

The media is simply a business.  They report what the public wants to see because that draws in viewers which brings in advertising revenue.  Nothing more to it than that.  Trust me, very few people at Fox news really care about the right wing agenda, and very few at MSNBC care about the left - they pander to a specific audience because it makes good business sense to have parties catering to both sides.  It's like Subway and McDonalds - their commercials might promote subs and burgers, respectively, but they don't really care so much as they simply are catering to people who like each, just like the networks are catering to an audience.

The coverage of the shooting itself isn't what the politicians are blaming though.  They're basically blaming the talking heads (Beck, O'reilly, etc) for riling people up.  Much like you don't want to see coverage on this guy, I also am not a fan of the political babble on many networks, but despite that, I still fully support their rights under the 1st amendment to say what they want.

IE, I think it's fine to say you disagree with something someone says, or even that you find it offensive - the line just get crossed when there is an attempt to make them stop saying it.

Despite knowing that they're in it for the money, the LAST thing I'd want to see is some government "Ministry of Truth" reporting the "news" as they want the public to hear it.

Offline gypsyman

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Re: US Rep. Shot in AZ
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2011, 08:28:46 PM »
It's the liberals way of trying to bring back the fairness doctrine. They can't make it commercially, as ''Air America'' showed us. So lets shut down the conservative voice's, even thou that's what peole listen to. This sheriff dupnik opened his mouth and put his foot in it. He's back pedaling faster than a Micheal Jackson moon walk. gypsyman
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Offline Spirithawk

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Re: US Rep. Shot in AZ
« Reply #46 on: January 13, 2011, 06:56:41 AM »
I'm not against the media reporting the news but they practicly make rock stars out of killers. It's bad enough this low life did the shootings but I resent being forced to see his face plastered every where I look! Why do you think he's smiling? They're giving him the attention he wants and he's relishing it! If the media wants to tell me something about him....tell me when they've injected the needle!

The media is simply a business.  They report what the public wants to see because that draws in viewers which brings in advertising revenue.  Nothing more to it than that.  Trust me, very few people at Fox news really care about the right wing agenda, and very few at MSNBC care about the left - they pander to a specific audience because it makes good business sense to have parties catering to both sides.  It's like Subway and McDonalds - their commercials might promote subs and burgers, respectively, but they don't really care so much as they simply are catering to people who like each, just like the networks are catering to an audience.

The coverage of the shooting itself isn't what the politicians are blaming though.  They're basically blaming the talking heads (Beck, O'reilly, etc) for riling people up.  Much like you don't want to see coverage on this guy, I also am not a fan of the political babble on many networks, but despite that, I still fully support their rights under the 1st amendment to say what they want.

IE, I think it's fine to say you disagree with something someone says, or even that you find it offensive - the line just get crossed when there is an attempt to make them stop saying it.

Despite knowing that they're in it for the money, the LAST thing I'd want to see is some government "Ministry of Truth" reporting the "news" as they want the public to hear it.

Well, if back in 1776 the people didn't get riled up where would we be? The way I see it is that the reason the media can so easily get people riled up is simply because people are all ready riled to begin with and if polititions are looking for someone to blame they need look no farther than the nearest mirror! I just wish the media would report the news a bit more and sensationalism a bit less.

Offline mrussel

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Re: US Rep. Shot in AZ
« Reply #47 on: January 13, 2011, 06:41:07 PM »
Quote
I keep saying, if citizens with ccw's start shooting back these mass shootings will drop. Another reason they occur is because the shooters think themselves free and safe to do so.




SH.A big AMEN to that. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D

 I very much doubt anything would have definitely stopped him. The descriptions that I see in the media are a man in his early 20s,rapidly deteriorating,talking to campus police in an incoherent mumbling rant. Anyone one whose ever seen a really bad schizophrenic will recognize it right away and that age is just about when it usually hits. Fear of being shot by armed citizens,or police and fear of being caught don't even enter these kind of peoples mind. They just don't think rationally so any way you can think of to deter them that relies on them being rational will fail.

 I still stand by my statement that there is an "angry" fringe on the right that is using the language of violence as a metaphor for political change. It goes to far. When you see signs at rallys that say things like "If Brown cant do it,Browning can" with a picture of Mr Browns opponent with a reticle superimposed over his head there is no other conclusion to draw. It means if Brown cant win at the ballot box,shoot his opponent. While I have no reason to believe that this particular nut had any connection to those other lunatics,I find it disturbing that it does not make people reconsider some of the inflammatory rhetoric they have been using. I don't believe Palin for instance is calling for assassination of Democrats,but you would think that someone who clearly wants to be President would have a little more common sense.

Offline mrussel

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Re: US Rep. Shot in AZ
« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2011, 06:50:07 PM »


The coverage of the shooting itself isn't what the politicians are blaming though.  They're basically blaming the talking heads (Beck, O'reilly, etc) for riling people up.  Much like you don't want to see coverage on this guy, I also am not a fan of the political babble on many networks, but despite that, I still fully support their rights under the 1st amendment to say what they want.

IE, I think it's fine to say you disagree with something someone says, or even that you find it offensive - the line just get crossed when there is an attempt to make them stop saying it.

Despite knowing that they're in it for the money, the LAST thing I'd want to see is some government "Ministry of Truth" reporting the "news" as they want the public to hear it.

 I have to agree 100%. While I might suggest that certain people should take a good look at what they are saying,unless someone is actually going to the point of directly and explicitly calling for violence I would be even MORE concerned with any attempts by the government to silence them. I may say that some people SHOULD keep their mouths shut,but I would certainly be concerned if someone started saying they should be MADE to keep their mouths shut.

Offline saddlebum

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Re: US Rep. Shot in AZ
« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2011, 09:19:05 PM »
WAAA....WAAAA!!   :'(
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Offline Spirithawk

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Re: US Rep. Shot in AZ
« Reply #50 on: January 14, 2011, 05:29:04 AM »
Quote
I keep saying, if citizens with ccw's start shooting back these mass shootings will drop. Another reason they occur is because the shooters think themselves free and safe to do so.




SH.A big AMEN to that. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D

 I very much doubt anything would have definitely stopped him. The descriptions that I see in the media are a man in his early 20s,rapidly deteriorating,talking to campus police in an incoherent mumbling rant. Anyone one whose ever seen a really bad schizophrenic will recognize it right away and that age is just about when it usually hits. Fear of being shot by armed citizens,or police and fear of being caught don't even enter these kind of peoples mind. They just don't think rationally so any way you can think of to deter them that relies on them being rational will fail.

 I still stand by my statement that there is an "angry" fringe on the right that is using the language of violence as a metaphor for political change. It goes to far. When you see signs at rallys that say things like "If Brown cant do it,Browning can" with a picture of Mr Browns opponent with a reticle superimposed over his head there is no other conclusion to draw. It means if Brown cant win at the ballot box,shoot his opponent. While I have no reason to believe that this particular nut had any connection to those other lunatics,I find it disturbing that it does not make people reconsider some of the inflammatory rhetoric they have been using. I don't believe Palin for instance is calling for assassination of Democrats,but you would think that someone who clearly wants to be President would have a little more common sense.

A double tap would have stopped him and saved lives! As for those in the planning stages, If they thought they might get shot before accomplishing their goals, and not become infamous with their names and faces all over the media, they just might change their minds. Of course they might decide on a bomb instead of a gun....yeah, I can see the media now, "We need stricter bomb control laws!"  ::) Some wish to die, the suicide by cop route, but not all and there's more chance of a person with a CCW stopping them from accomplishing their goal than a cop. Yeah, the shooters may be deranged but if they are sane enough to plan then they are sane enough to take note if their kind becomes targets themselves!

Offline myronman3

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Re: US Rep. Shot in AZ
« Reply #51 on: January 14, 2011, 05:51:18 AM »
there has been plenty of metaphors and political talk from both sides that could be twisted or taken as a call for violence...if you are an idiot.   to say one side has a patent on it is moronic.   taken as a whole, the left is far more brave in suggesting certain people be assissinated than the right.   in fact, i am willing to bet there would be dancing in the street if bush or palin were killed. 

   this is the act of a nut, and it is just too bad a cop or citizen carrying wasnt there to punch his ticket.  of course, then it wouldnt have gotten to be as a bad an incident, and wouldnt have even gotten any coverage.   in fact, i am willing to bet that if a citizen with a gun would have shot this guy before he could kill people, none of us would have even heard about it.     

Offline powderman

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Re: US Rep. Shot in AZ
« Reply #52 on: January 14, 2011, 07:03:18 AM »
Sure we'd of heard about it. Armed citizen kills would be killer without giving him a chance, didn't say drop it or anything, just shot him dead, like he was going to do. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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Offline mrussel

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Re: US Rep. Shot in AZ
« Reply #53 on: January 14, 2011, 08:44:03 PM »
Quote
I keep saying, if citizens with ccw's start shooting back these mass shootings will drop. Another reason they occur is because the shooters think themselves free and safe to do so.




SH.A big AMEN to that. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D

 I very much doubt anything would have definitely stopped him. The descriptions that I see in the media are a man in his early 20s,rapidly deteriorating,talking to campus police in an incoherent mumbling rant. Anyone one whose ever seen a really bad schizophrenic will recognize it right away and that age is just about when it usually hits. Fear of being shot by armed citizens,or police and fear of being caught don't even enter these kind of peoples mind. They just don't think rationally so any way you can think of to deter them that relies on them being rational will fail.

 I still stand by my statement that there is an "angry" fringe on the right that is using the language of violence as a metaphor for political change. It goes to far. When you see signs at rallys that say things like "If Brown cant do it,Browning can" with a picture of Mr Browns opponent with a reticle superimposed over his head there is no other conclusion to draw. It means if Brown cant win at the ballot box,shoot his opponent. While I have no reason to believe that this particular nut had any connection to those other lunatics,I find it disturbing that it does not make people reconsider some of the inflammatory rhetoric they have been using. I don't believe Palin for instance is calling for assassination of Democrats,but you would think that someone who clearly wants to be President would have a little more common sense.

A double tap would have stopped him and saved lives! As for those in the planning stages, If they thought they might get shot before accomplishing their goals, and not become infamous with their names and faces all over the media, they just might change their minds. Of course they might decide on a bomb instead of a gun....yeah, I can see the media now, "We need stricter bomb control laws!"  ::) Some wish to die, the suicide by cop route, but not all and there's more chance of a person with a CCW stopping them from accomplishing their goal than a cop. Yeah, the shooters may be deranged but if they are sane enough to plan then they are sane enough to take note if their kind becomes targets themselves!

 Your assigning rational goals to irrational people. No amount of fear of getting caught or killed is going to stop some loony from doing what the voices tell him to do. Its not about fame or infamy. Its not really even about their agenda. Its about some bizarre incomprehensible broken pseudo logic that drives their behavior. Think about it. If you heard voices that claimed to be Satan,Prince of Darkness and embodiment of all evil telling you to kill someone,you would most likely think you are crazy,or at least think your hallucinating. You might hide it,or you might seek help. You might even believe it WAS Satan,but even if you did,would you actually DO what he told you to? There are people out there who in fact do exactly that. They have defective brains. Its a structural thing that will even show up on an MRI. Its like a broken computer. If you try to get a broken computer to add two plus three,there is no sense in wondering why it gave you 12 as an answer. Its just broken. Certain mental diseases (schizophrenia is one of those) are simply the result of a defective and broken brain. You cant use logic to figure out what they will do and you cant expect measures that are based on them acting logically or rationally to have the desired effect to modify their behavior. The best you can do is try to spot the dangerous ones. In reality though,even that can be difficult. There will be people like that out there and its just a risk we have to live with.

 Also,the idea that "if they are sane enough to plan" they are sane enough to be deterred is absurd. They don't just plan,they can become obsessed,driven to perform whatever task they have in mind. While I admit,a man there,when they are doing it,with a gun can stop them,and I certainly would hope that there wouldhttp://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,219659.0/topicseen.html be such a person because nothing short of that physical force at the critical time is going to do it.

 What I do find absurd is the idea of making it illegal to have guns in the presence of a member of congress. I don't see how that could prevent any assassination attempt that has ever occurred. I doubt the prospect of adding and additional charge of a firearms violation to te premedidated murder charge is going to make someone rethink their crazy plans. However,if a politician wants to make sure no one around him at an event has a gun,he can ALREADY do that if he so chooses. He can simply hold his meeting on private property. He can set up a check point and have his security search people for weapons. For instance,if someone comes to your home,you can search them for weapons. If they don't want to submit,the can always leave your home. That is their sole remedy.

Offline mrussel

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Re: US Rep. Shot in AZ
« Reply #54 on: January 15, 2011, 09:11:57 AM »
there has been plenty of metaphors and political talk from both sides that could be twisted or taken as a call for violence...if you are an idiot.   to say one side has a patent on it is moronic.   taken as a whole, the left is far more brave in suggesting certain people be assissinated than the right.   in fact, i am willing to bet there would be dancing in the street if bush or palin were killed. 

   this is the act of a nut, and it is just too bad a cop or citizen carrying wasnt there to punch his ticket.  of course, then it wouldnt have gotten to be as a bad an incident, and wouldnt have even gotten any coverage.   in fact, i am willing to bet that if a citizen with a gun would have shot this guy before he could kill people, none of us would have even heard about it.     

 Of course we would have. ANY attempt on the life of a member of congress would have made news. An attempt that was stopped by an armed citizen even more so. People may like to talk about how biased the media is against guns,but there is one thing they like more than anything else and that's profit. Viewers=profit and a story like that is just news worthy. Now some outlets might cast it as "Arizonas gun control has turned it into 'Dodge City' and say that the lack of gun control caused a near tragedy and downplay the the fact that the criminal would not have paid attention to any gun control laws anyway and the only thing it would have done is prevent the hypothetical armed hero from saving lives,but it most CERTAINLY would have made the national news cycle.