Author Topic: cylinder good or not  (Read 967 times)

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Offline mdawson

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cylinder good or not
« on: January 08, 2011, 12:40:05 PM »
I found a cylinder that may work for my BB mortar. It is a nitrogen tank. I havent had the time to measure the diameter, but just eyeing it next to a oxygen cylinder I think it will work. The numbers on it are DOT3AA2265. Any thoughts?

Offline Double D

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Re: cylinder good or not
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2011, 12:48:59 PM »

Offline mdawson

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Re: cylinder good or not
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2011, 01:14:03 PM »
The diameter is to small or the height? What about the wall thickness? Would I have to add something like a piece of schedule 80 to the outside to thicken it up? Or is the wall of the tank stout enough by itself?

Offline Double D

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Re: cylinder good or not
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2011, 04:34:35 PM »
Matt,

You question kind of makes me think you are new to cannon building and you realy aren't aware of the relevance of the features needed to build a bowling ball mortar.

I can understand your desire to build this gun.  The bowling ball mortar is a big impressive gun. They are neat!  Some might say building a bowling ball mortar is an advance project.  But other than size there really isn't much difference than building a golf ball mortar.  If you have the skills to build a golf ball mortar all you need is tools big enough to build bowling ball mortar.   But there are some things you need to know.  
  
First this from the  References sticky.

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,41634.0.html
A bowling ball gun with proper windage would need a minimum bore of 8.815 inch.
Circumference of a bowling ball.  Max 27.002 inches.  27.002 xi .31831 = 8.595 maximum diameter of a bowling .  (8.595/39)x40= 8.815 inches http://www.topendsports.com/sport/tenpin/dimensions.htm

The Pressure tank need to make the expansion chamber for a bowling ball mortar for is the 300 CF, DOT 3AA2400 made by Taylor Wharton. http://www.taylorwharton.com/assets/base/doc/products/cylinders/TW1102_StandardHighPressure.pdf.

So to build a bowling ball mortar you need a tube larger than 8.565 inches ID and 8.815 would be ideal.   Click on the Taylor Wharton link and look at the chart of dimensions of the tank. Find your tank and check the specs.

I just found a web site selling the empty tanks  and they list the DOT #AA2400 http://www.jandrweldingsupply.com/store/GasCylinders/LargeHighPressure.html.  My guess is they won't sell you just one.


What are you going to use for a powder chamber?



Offline Winger Ed.

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Re: cylinder good or not
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2011, 11:26:41 PM »
What are you going to use for a powder chamber?
Hmmm,,,, (Pause a moment here,,,,, to think & ponder, while scratching the top of head)
For your's & others safety---- This is a VERY!!,, VERY important question.
"Gone are the days of wooden ships, and Iron men.
I doubt we shall ever see their likes again".
Unknown US Coast Guard Commander on the upper US East Coast.  Circa 1920

In our modern & enlightened times:
The only thing the Meek will inherit- is a Berqa.

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: cylinder good or not
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2011, 12:48:36 AM »
What are you going to use for a powder chamber?
Hmmm,,,, (Pause a moment here,,,,, to think & ponder, while scratching the top of head)
For your's & others safety---- This is a VERY!!,, VERY important question.


 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline mdawson

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Re: cylinder good or not
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2011, 05:12:33 AM »
Actually to those that question my abilities and thoughts. I am very capable in building a BB mortar. I simply don't have the tooling and machinery to get it done. I didn't want to purchase the wrong tank. I understood this to be a place for asking questions and learning a new craft. I do shoot long range matches, I do hold a type 33 high explosives license. I would like to feel that I am somewhat competent in learning new things. As for a powder chamber I was planning on using the plans from the Fla. mortar. As for a constructor I am in talks with Ed Hart. Now if you all have had your fun, some instruction would be appreciated.

Offline Double D

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Re: cylinder good or not
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2011, 06:36:41 AM »
I certainly am not having "fun at your expense".    I don't know your skills or capabilities and can only respond to your questions as I am able to perceive your knowledge in cannon construction by what you type.

You say you have the skills and capability to build, great.  We can help you get the knowledge.  You started the knowledge process by asking questions.

I still say this a fairly simple gun to build as long as you have equipment big enough to do the work. I am in the process of gathering together the materials to build a bowling ball mortar myself.  I am not going to use a pressure tank.  You can follow my progress on that build by following the this link DD's Winter 2011- 2012 project- Ideas That project is still in the acquisition and transportation stage.  I still need a piece of 9 inch RS. And, I need to get the steel from  California to Montana.

I am in the same boat you are.  I have the skills and abilities.  I don't have the equipment.  I am going to have to farm this work out.  I have the knowledge to design the gun. But I can assure you I will be right here asking question if I run on to a problem.  

Glad to hear you touched base with Ed.  He has a good reputation here and you should be happy with his help.

The Florida mortar is a very poor design.  Not only is the powder chamber poorly place but the carriage design is so bad the mortar flips on its back when fired.   Each problem can easily be over come.

A better way to build this, would be to weld the powder chamber to the trunnion bar and then slip the tank over the powder chamber, down to the trunnion and weld the tank to the trunnion.  Then run a vent liner from tank to powder chamber.  The Florida mortar has the tank welded to the mouth of the powder chamber. The weld would be subject directly to the blast and contamination from the effects of that.

The base-flip  issue is even easier to solve. Simply by moving the trunnions position at or very near the centerline of the carriage and the flip  problem is reduced or removed.

Offline mdawson

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Re: cylinder good or not
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2011, 07:12:37 AM »
It is good to know about the Fla. mortar now before getting to far with the plans for it. I am sure that maybe Ed probably would've advised me that he knew of a better design. I am going to let him run with it. I originally contacted him about a golf ball mortar. I asked about the BB mortar and he told me he could build one. I am looking to here back from him on Monday. I am paying close attention to your thread on a winter project.

Offline Double D

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Re: cylinder good or not
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2011, 07:57:16 AM »
My project will be slow.  The materials may not be here in  Montana until April and I won't be home from our road trip to Maryland until  May.  When I get back in  May I will be full time devoted to getting ready for the  August  Cannon shoot.  Since I will be farming out much of the work I will be at the mercy of others and the budget.   Maybe the wife will put on some yard sales to help pay for this....   

Offline dan610324

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Re: cylinder good or not
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2011, 08:04:01 AM »
be careful DD , she might sell your Martinis  ;D
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: cylinder good or not
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2011, 08:29:39 AM »
be careful DD , she might sell your Martinis  ;D

Oooo Oooo Ooooooo

I'm a goin' to THAT yard sale!
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline smokemjoe

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Re: cylinder good or not
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2011, 10:13:17 AM »
 mdawson, I did the same thing, got 2 tanks like you did, cut them and no matter what I did the ball wouldnt go down the  into the tank, Finally got 3AA2400 tank and this size works, I got mine from a place  I worked in last winter as a pattern maker, The boss called a place he got his gas from and they had a tank someone struck a arc on the tank and scraped it out. Hope that helps, Joe