Author Topic: A Handi in .30 Carbine? (Read 3340 times)

jlwilliams · « **on:** January 11, 2011, 02:23:10 AM »

While following another thread about a new round (300 AAC Blackout thread running now) I got to thinking. One thing a number of posters brought up was that a small .30 cal case like that would make it ideal for anybody who wanted to rechamber. Small case allows you to ream up to whatever. Another point being the mild recoil for plinking and for young shooters. That made me think...30 Carbine. Not many smaller cases out there. It's not rimmed, but it has a taper to it so it would probably extract just fine. On paper it's similar to the 327 mag, but it's been around longer. Recoil is mild. With soft point ammo it's not good for animals much bigger than woodchucks or coyote, but they need killing as much as anything. FMJ ammo for general plinking.

Not like H&R is going to rush right over to the machines and run a batch of 30 Carbine rifles off. I'm just throwing it out for discussion.

SlimPigguns · « **Reply #1 on:** January 11, 2011, 03:08:25 AM »

Some one used to make an adapted shaped like a 30.06 case so you could fire .30 carbine in a 30.06. - Pete

PowPow · « **Reply #2 on:** January 11, 2011, 03:14:38 AM »

Can't speak to re-chambering. That bug has not bit me.

But if the desire is to have a light plinker for young shooters and you reload, the 30-30 can be downloaded to 22lr recoil by using sr-4759 and 115 rnbb cast bullets. I was able to make 200 of these plinkers for my handi from clean range pickup for about 10 cents each (cheaper than some 22 lrs).
From the various handi barrels I have had, the rimmed 30-30 cartridge was the least fussy.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #3 on:** January 11, 2011, 06:29:39 AM »

The 30 carb, 327 Fed and 32 H&R all are jonny come lately's to this class of caliber. None ballistically improve upon their predisesser. <sp>The grand old 32-20.

CW

gcrank1 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 12, 2011, 08:10:47 AM »

JCL, yes, but I sure like the idea of using carbide dies to reload the .32H&R and .the .327.
Skeeter Skelton chrono'ed the .32H&R and 32-20 factory loads back in the early '90s(?) and found, in spite of the velo history of the 32-20, the .32H&R was faster. He became pretty sold on it.
I could 'settle' for it fine, even though I have 32-20 stuff Im not that fond of reloading it compared to a straight walled case.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #5 on:** January 12, 2011, 08:48:34 AM »

I do believe our own resident Master Chief gunsmith Larry (trotterlg) has already made up a .30 Carbine barrel. I think some lucky member here has it now. I sure wish it was me. I have about 1K rounds of .30 Carbine ammo sitting around and I'm doing nothing with it....<><....

petemi · « **Reply #6 on:** January 12, 2011, 09:07:00 AM »

Andy, the answer is simple.....have Larry make ya one.

Pete

MSP Ret · « **Reply #7 on:** January 13, 2011, 06:50:24 AM »

Thanks Pete, I had the same idea and was thinking abouty asking Larry about that. I did check the thread on "cheap" barrel blanks available and there were none offered in .308 at this time....<><....

trotterlg · « **Reply #8 on:** January 13, 2011, 07:12:14 AM »

I've made up several of them, they shoot really well and if you use a fast twist barrel it is real easy to load heavy lead bullets and shoot them subsonic. I have a takeoff 300 win mag barrel near ready to do another one. Finding a takeoff barrel is the cheap way to go, lots of Remington takeoff barrels from the 300 Mags out there for near nothing. The 30 carbine brass is very good and cheap to buy. Larry

maggot · « **Reply #9 on:** January 13, 2011, 07:20:01 AM »

trotterlg, i just made a handi barrel in 30 carbine with a 1-10 twist. Could you share some heavy bullet load data?

Sourdough · « **Reply #10 on:** January 13, 2011, 08:44:08 AM »

Slimpiggins: Those addaptors are still availiable, I see them being advertised in gun magazines all the time. All kinds of caliber combinations.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #11 on:** January 13, 2011, 09:58:16 AM »

MCA makes the adapters, they've been discussed many times here.

Tim

http://www.mcace.com/adapters.htm

trotterlg · « **Reply #12 on:** January 13, 2011, 10:20:41 AM »

Do a reality check on the load, but I think it was 8 gr of 4227, I remember it was about half of the load for the 105 gr bullet. Larry

Sourdough · « **Reply #13 on:** January 13, 2011, 03:30:06 PM »

This round is not a very powerful round. Good for plinking, training kids, and just fun shooting. At 1900fps factory 110gr loads are a bit slow and underpowered for hunting any thing larger than varmits.

Tim, I know that guy in Anchorage that makes these adaptors and bullets. I met him a long time ago when I lived in Anchorage, and see him regulerly at local gun shows. When we have a gun show in Fairbanks all the gun people in Anchorage ncome up here. And when they have one in Anchorage we all go down there. It's only 400 miles down there.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #14 on:** January 13, 2011, 03:57:02 PM »

what does a 30 carbine do better than a 38 won't do ?.....shoot a little flatter

what does a 30 do better than a 357mag won't do ?.......kick a little less

we like rims on handis ??

what rounds are most common ?
what round is most likely to also chamber in the gun in my pocket

i like the re-chamber doner aspect

30 carbine handi might have been a great idea 40 years ago
when they were paying folks to haul it off

Jimbo47 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 14, 2011, 12:39:26 AM »

I would rather see a Handi in a 300 Whisper!

Maybe this has been done before, but it would be more fun than a .30 carbine and you could use it on deer if loaded to super sonic levels.

The subsonic loads offer energy levels similar to that of the popular .45 ACP pistol cartridge, but range is substantially increased due to the longer, more efficient .30 caliber bullet.

The best of both worlds and brass is easy to get as it uses .223 brass.

EDIT: All this has been said before since I did a search and found tons on it! Anyway here is an interesting thread I dusted off and some of you may recognize yourself although a little younger.
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,125384.0.html

Darreld Walton · « **Reply #16 on:** January 14, 2011, 02:15:39 AM »

Well, I personally see several advantages to a "fast" twist .30 carbine single shot. As mentioned, sub-sonic heavy bullet loads, coupled with a can, could make a VERY interesting camp/backyard gun.
Then there's fellas like "someone" I know (wink, wink), who're sitting on a substantial pile of the old GI .30 carbine ammo, even more handloads, and empty brass sitting there. I don't have it in mind to cobble up one of my .30 carbines, and the Blackhawk is earsplittingly loud.
I had occasion to meet a 'little grey-haired old lady' who'd come into Morris Sporting Goods (when Dennis still had the store down on Central Av. in Great Falls) who'd come in once a year for a box of WW 110 gr. soft point ammunition. Each year, she'd also bring in a photograph of the previous year's deer and speed goats that she busted with the rounds. Her rifle was an original, unmodified, War II issue Inland .30 Carbine, and she was absolutely lethal with it.
Gut-shot bad guys, if you listen to a lot of returning GI's, were barely fazed by the little carbine round, my Dad, a machine gunner in Korea, had two M2's in his hole the first night in country, next day, after a human wave came at 'em, and he ended up going to the shoulder guns, took the M2's down the hill and got two Garands.
For me, personally, the cost and trouble connected to the .32-20, .327, and other 'little' rounds just don't have enough going for them to make me pick them over the .30 carbine.
Fact is, that I've had my eye out for a decent Hornet to have rebored/chambered for the round.

petemi · « **Reply #17 on:** January 14, 2011, 03:42:10 AM »

Someone has got to sit me down and explain why I need a rifle chambered for the .30 carbine. It's my understanding that nobody liked them in combat....even preferring the grease gun and Thompson over them. If ya look down at my signature line and see the Handis I have, and consider that I reload, what do I have that can't duplicate the .30's performance? To me, the issue carbine was an ineffective piece of crap, and the poor guys stuck with it would have been better off with a Garand.....some may have even lived longer. I'm not so sure that our Military shouldn't have stuck with the .308. Adopting the dumbassed 9mm over the .45ACP is another. Don't teach people to shoot, just give them more bullets. I'm just "Rock and Shoals" Navy and stuck in my ways, but I was in ordnance and shot every small arm the Navy had. Except for the weight, the BAR was my favorite, followed closely by the Garand. I preferred the .45ACP over the .38s the pilots carried. Later, on courier duty I was supposed to carry a .380, but toted my own .45.
Enough nostalgia, sorry.

End of rant.

Pete

manatee1947 · « **Reply #18 on:** January 14, 2011, 12:04:58 PM »

As I repeatedly advocate

for smaller cartridges I will also in this thread I guess. Lets look at some of the questions in order: It is too light for deer...... I have more than a dozen firearms that are legal for deer---I have to have a lottery every year and draw a new one daily to prevent jealousy. #2: What can a 327 do that a light loaded 30/30 ( or insert the cartridge of your choice) do. Answer- fit 7 of them into the little flip top plastic containers that diabetic test strips come in, making them water, dust and lint proof, and not make a giant lump in my pocket to wear out my pants. #3 Why would you want straight walled rimmed cartridges, they are older lower pressure rounds with lower performance ? Answer- they shoot older, lower pressure cartridges that adapt well to cast bullets. I have shot some of my 38 special cases more than 25 times without trimming or a problem. #4 If you had one, what would you do with it ? I f I had a 327 handi I would load up a bunch of varmint loads for under 100 yards, a bunch of 32 H&R squirrel loads for 25-50 yards, and finally, load up a bunch of 32 long pest loads for 25 yds m/l, to use for plinking and gophers and mice etc. For some reason I cannot justify to myself using a premium bullet and the time to load everything up for a high performance just to shoot targets. I quit shooting my 17 HMR except rarely when the price got up to 30 cents a shot, especially when I can shoot a 32 long with a 75gr cast and 2.0 gr of Bullseye for 5 cents.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 14, 2011, 12:39:06 PM »

+1 all that, maybe +2 or 3......

gendoc · « **Reply #20 on:** January 14, 2011, 02:56:54 PM »

ifin i would hava dollar for every deer i kilt witha 30 carbine as a kid bout 53 years ago, i'd been retired
when i was 40..... it don't make no since bout the carbine not haven enuff guts to bring down a whitetail !!!!
yall shud know that it matters most where ya put that bullet... that deer don't know how fast bullet goes.
look how manya arrows have put them down travel'n 200-300 fps !!!! i've done that too.

the right time, place, shot and placement is the way it works, hell i kild a kiyote wifa sling-shot once
got'um right between them eyeballs.........shot placement

SlimPigguns · « **Reply #21 on:** January 14, 2011, 04:04:07 PM »

Thanks for the link on the adapters, Tim.
Pete

Singleshotsam · « **Reply #22 on:** January 15, 2011, 03:06:12 AM »

I'm a big fan of the .30 carbine. Both the gun and the round.

What people don't take the time to realize is that the m1 carbine was designed as a PDF (Personal Defense Weapon) to replace the M1911 for troops and officers that wouldn't see much front line action, or for Morter teams, Machine Gun teams, Radiomen, Truck drivers, Medics ect... It's primary purpose was to grab up in a hurry and engage targets fast. For example, truck drivers being ambushed from the side of the road or a Morter team getting overrun ect...

The carbine was deemed much easier to train soldiers on than the heavy recoiling 1911. It was never intended to be compared to the M1 garand in terms of stopping power. It was never intended to be compared to the Thompson or Grease Gun in terms of automatic fire.

It's believed that most accounts of the M1 Carbines lack of stopping power came from Korea when the M2 (fully auto carbine) was issued, and soldiers abandoned well aimed shots in favor of spray and pray tactics. The M2 carbine was a terrible concept because the stock design did not promote steady aim while in automatic fire. The gun rotates upward around the straight stock design much like the m14 did in fully automatic mode.

So if were going to make general claims about any lack of stopping power in the .30 carbine it should be made on personal accounts of failing to kill an animal or man properly, and admission of poorly aimed shots and improper use of ammunition (FMJ's)

bcp · « **Reply #23 on:** January 16, 2011, 09:01:23 PM »

You should always use enough gun.

Bruce

blind ear · « **Reply #24 on:** January 21, 2011, 11:29:59 AM »

roll up

blind ear · « **Reply #25 on:** January 24, 2011, 11:38:01 AM »

roll up

blind ear · « **Reply #26 on:** January 28, 2011, 07:28:27 PM »

roll up

Blackhawker · « **Reply #27 on:** January 28, 2011, 08:29:43 PM »

I happen to be a big fan of the 30 carbine round when loaded in a single shot or a Ruger Blackhawk pistol. I commonly plink and hunt prairie dogs with it. What I think is overlooked by many is that the 30 carbine round is probably more effective than most think when fired from a standing breech rifle rather than the gas operated chamber of an M1. While I tend to agree with most that it's not good for anything much larger than large varmints, there are accounts of people being quite sucessful with it when hunting deer. I don't know what to think about the photo above with the two bear.

I guess what we don't see are the five 30 round magazines he used on each bear.

Despite Korean war reports of it being ineffective, (mad dad often joked about it too) I sure wouldn't want to be a target down range from one!

On the argument of using the 30 carbine chambering for training kids, I believe that there is a much better solution to this point because there is already a chambering in production; that being the .22 Hornet. A friend of mine and I hunt prairie dogs together and I cannot tell you how many times I've been left in the dust with my Thompson Contender in 30 carbine when he begins shooting his .22 Hornet Thompson Contender. We've often played around taking turns shooting targets WAY far down range (400 yards or so....one shoots while the other spots and visa versa) and when using the Hornet, he never has to shoot as high over the target as I do with the 30 carbine in order to compensate for the long distance. The .22 Hornet has even less recoil and shoots flatter than the 30 carbine. The only drawback to the Hornet, by comparison to the 30 carbine, is availability of brass and the longevity or reload-ability of it's brass. A 357 magnum would be a second chambering to consider if one is looking for something similar that's already in production with the Handi's.

Whatever the case, lest's face it; anyone wanting or buying a single shot in 30 carbine has NO intention of going big game hunting or using this as a weapon of personal defense. It's main intended use would be plinking, target shooting, getting rid of pests, and/or just plain fun. Anyone knocking it or saying they have no use for it probably has no use for a plinker, pest control gun, or just a plain old fun gun to shoot and instead, have other intentions. It's not for everybody.
....just my thoughts.....

Tommie D · « **Reply #28 on:** January 29, 2011, 07:52:32 PM »

Another nice thing about the .30 Carbine is when your done playing with it for a while, you can take all that brass and make some really nice wildcat's with it. My next project just might be the .22 Garin.

Jimbo47 · « **Reply #29 on:** January 30, 2011, 03:34:02 AM »

It's been around a long, long time to say the least, and it has never really caught on other than a nice caliber to have just to say you do, for the nastalgia of it.

I used to own one, but a thief relieved me of it many years ago, but there are other rounds as the poster above spoke to that are presently produced and are similar being a better choice with more options.

If they made one in a Handi I'm sure it would probably be a popular round also just as the other pistol calibers, and you can bet that people that reload will be trying to do things to make it better right off the bat and prove the naysayers wrong, as has been attempted all these years using modern bullets and powders.

Fact is, the 30 carbine will always be what it is, and that it won't ever be the best deer rifle in deer camp!