Considering getting either a .223 Ultra Varmint or .17 Sporster

[bowzette]

Hi All.  First let me say I have read the FAQ and Handi 101. I promise Mr. Quick I really did I have a few questions. I'm not interested in hunting but shooting off the bench.  Do many of you use these rifles for bench shooting?  Does the break open breech design become "inconvenient" for BR shooting?  Seems like a lot of movement and difficult to maintain a consistent position-but I'm getting back into shooting and don't know. Not into competitive shooting anyway.  Second it is not clear to me about the "general" recommended procedure for polishing the bore. Is J-B Bore Cleaning Compound generally used?  If not what is recommended-Fritz lapping compound? Do you run the rod in both directions from the breech, or only from breach to muzzle-one way?  Do you run the rod all the way through the bore or stop short of the muzzle opening?  I realize folks will have different approaches, but need some imput I didn't find in FAQ. The .17 Sporster is polymer stock.  Should I anticipate a greater forearm bedding/floating issue than wood stock? I'm just punching holes in paper-would like to shoot 100-300 yards at the range. Make some apple/orange juice in the countryside. The cost of .17 is $.25-$.30.  If I got a .223 being cheap I would shoot the PMC .$35 or reloads from CCC Ammo near here. Bulk type ammo but not Wolf or other dirty or non reloadable ammo.  One day I may reload but not for several years. The .17 is a bit cheaper to shoot and the ammo is quality but shorter range and more effected by wind.  The .223 ammo would be OK but not near target grade. I assume the brass would be reloadable but don't know it would produce really good hand loads later.  Not going to pay $.75-$1.00 a round to shoot! The Sporster is $166 and the .223 UV (24" bull barrel and laminated stock) is $305. Thought, comments, suggestions appreciated.

[briannmilewis]

All my boys and i did with our 22 Hornet Handi was bench work. Very informal, the most organized we ever got was adding a light-weight bipod, as we tired of resting on jackets, duffle bags etc.

My boys had zero shooting experience before the Hornet and the extra messing about opening and closing forced them to take their time and make every shot count.

Plenty of folks here just target shoot, but I don't how many do it from rests, bipods or off-hand leaning up against a roof post on the range.

The spread between .17 and .223 is big, so most of the folks here will be really helpful and tell you to buy both. I can tell you are on a budget like we were, I would suggest you start off cheap with the .17 and see how you like it, and if you want to graduate to .223, then you can decide then if you are going to sell all the .17 stuff to upgrade or make the .223 a second rifle.

Good luck, and welcome to the best huntin', shootin' and fishin' forum on the net.

[necchi]

Yes the Handi is inconvenient for bench shooting as you say, but it can be overcome with good bagging.

The 17 is awfull light for anything beyond 100, I've seen guy's realy struggle even at 100. The 223 will easily reach out to 300 and beyond.

[bigbird09]

don't hate on the .17hmr if you haven't shot it.  there are a few videos on YouTube that shows shoots out to 200yrds with the .17 (there are some that are farther than that, but I question some of them).  Most I have shot my .17 is 100yrds and it has no problems with that,  its more way more accurate than I am, best I have been able to do is quarter sized 5 shot at 100yrd.  Yes the little bullet will be affected by wind a lot more, but thats the price you pay for such a light round.  I also like the .223 round on don't bash the dirty Russians.  There is one guy on here I can think of off the top of my head that shoots some pretty well.  I also have some tula ammo that is Russian steel case that so far has done pretty good but I haven't shoot for groups with it yet.  Now I'm not gonna brag to much about ex mil ammo in handis, but I have seen some of that shoot just as good, out of a good rifle, as any factory ammo you can pick up.  If it was me at ranges of 2-300 yrds wanting something cheap to shoot and don't plan to reload I would probably pick up the .17hmr.  If you planned on reloading, or doing any hunting then i would grab up a .223.  Also like said above if you decide you wanna change barrels sell the one off and send it in to H&R, or even get a second hand barrel and enjoy.

[quickdtoo]

My longest kill with the 17hmr is 158 lasered yds on a ground squirrel, one shot, one kill.  I know of one confirmed PD kill at 309yds, also laser confirmed after the kill back to his truck, it took him 8 shots to walk it in tho. 

Tim

[bowzette]

thanks for the replys.  I got out of shooting 15 years ago when I moved from Dallas to small East Texas town. A gun range is being built near my home and will be open in the Spring.  Got my shooting interest going again. I just ordered a CZ 453 in .22lr-always like .22s.  I have a really old falling block with double set triggers, bull barrel and redfield peep sights and a Winchester 9422 XTR.  I can "lob" .22s with CZ at the 200 yard range if they let me. Pics of the .17 killing cans of beans looked like fun and the factory ammo looks to be target grade or close to it.  Obviously the .223 would be much better for shooting at 200-300 yards; I was concerned if I could get descent/interesting grouping with the .35 cent a rd ammo.  I use to hand load for a 25-06 but sold off my eq.  Wouldn't mind reloading again but it would be several years before I would get into reloading if at all.

What paste/compound should I use to polish the bore and should I brush in only one direction from breech?
thanks

[quickdtoo]

What paste/compound should I use to polish the bore and should I brush in only one direction from breech?
thanks

I use the Varmint Al method from the FAQs, minus the moly bullets afterwards, flitz or any fine metal polish will work fine, just be sure to use a good rod guide(FAQs) and be careful when the rod exits the muzzle.

Tim

http://varmintal.com/ashot.htm#Break

[bowzette]

is it wise to use a bore guide and if so who makes one for the H&R or is a "universal guide" used? Thanks

[quickdtoo]

They're shown in the FAQs like most everything else related to Handis! 

Tim

What paste/compound should I use to polish the bore and should I brush in only one direction from breech?
thanks

I use the Varmint Al method from the FAQs, minus the moly bullets afterwards, flitz or any fine metal polish will work fine, just be sure to use a good rod guide(FAQs) and be careful when the rod exits the muzzle.

Tim

http://varmintal.com/ashot.htm#Break

[petemi]

I got rid of my Sportster 17HMR because I believe it was too expensive to shoot, plus the split cases.  I can shoot a .223 for less with Russian ammo or reloading.  Add to that the long range performance of the .223 and there's no comparison.  I only bought the .17 because rimfires are the only allowed weapon for coyotes here in MI after dark.  It shot fine and was very accurate, but at 13.00 a box, I thought it was a little much.  Now, after dark, I use Patty's Sportster .22 mag.

Pete

[quickdtoo]

Pete,

I've got four 17hmrs, a Sportster, 2 Marlins and a CZ 452 American, they all split necks once in a while, it's an ammo thing, not the rifle.  

Tim

[Sourdough]

I have a 17HMR Sportster, with the BSA Sweet 17 scope.  Scope is accurate at 100 yards, but shoots low when dialed for 200 yards through 250.  It comes back on at 300 yards.  I shoot 4" clay targets on the bank at the range.  The bank is 337 yards.  Since the scope only adjust to 300 it calls for Kentucky windage to hit the targets, but it can be done.  But I would not recommend the 17 to anyone, due to the wind affecting it too much.

I also have a four .223s.  Three rifles and a T/C contender.  If these I like the Handi Ultra Varmint best.  For shooting out to 300 yards it is a breeze.  Put a good scope on it and it can reach out there and touch things.  I have a bi-pod mounted just behind the forearm screw, works for me.

I would highly recommend the .223 over the .17.  I also use the remanufactored ammo by Ultramax, with the 50gr Nosler Ballistic Tip.  These shoot well.  If I reload I use the Nosler 55gr Ballistic tip in front of Winchester 748.

[bowzette]

thanks for the info.  With the .22lrs I have, a .223 would be better than the .17HMR.  I like the looks of the laminated stock on the U.V.  The Sporster .17 is a plastic  stock which I suspect is harder to dial in.

[quickdtoo]

Stocks are all interchangeable on all H&R single shots, you can put any H&R stock you want on it, so that's a moot point, the 22mag used to be offered from the factory as an Ultra Varmint model with the same laminated stock set as the 223 Ultra Varmint. 

Tim

[bowzette]

Pete,

I've got four 17hmrs, a Sportster, 2 Marlins and a CZ 452 American, they all split necks once in a while, it's an ammo thing, not the rifle.  

Tim

Mr. Q how does the Sporster group at 100 yds compaired to the Marlins and CZ?

[quickdtoo]

About the same, they don't all like the same ammo tho, but I attribute that to lot differences. When I found ammo that one liked real well, I went back and bought a bunch of the same lot number, one of the perks of buying local. 

Tim

[dks7895]

I can't speak towards the Handi side, but I have had both calibers.  I had a Marlin 917V and it was very accurate....on a calm day.  My Ruger 10/22 was just as accurate and deadly out to 60 yards or so.  Fine for sniping tree rats.  .17HMR ammo is a lot more expensive than .22LR, so I sold it.  If I need to reach out further the .223 is my choice.   

[26-t]

The 17 HMR that Petemi sold is now in my vault, and it is my go to gun for Fox control. We have chickens and less foxes. I haven't had a walk away since I got it.  26-t

[LunaticFringeInc]

I would lean towards the .223. Heres why...

1.  Its fairly inexpensive.  The Tula Ammo is going for .25 cents a round.  The 17 HMR is retailing in the same neighborhood.  Yes some of the better .223 loads will cost more, especially those with Brass cases that will allow you to reload it after your bench sesiion at the range.

2.  Throws bullets from 40-80 grains.  That doesnt mean they will all shoot well from your gun, but thats a lot more weights and bullets styles than is available in the 17 HMR.  Surely there is a factoy load that is the "cats meow" in your gun.  I guess if your just punching paper that aint all that big an issue, but if you start hunting even vermin, that is an issue.  Those longer, heavier .223 bullets will make dealing with wind drift a bit easier, especially once you start shooting beyond 100 yards.

3.  The .223 is reloadable, unlike the 17 HMR.  With all the bullet weights, bullet styles and powders, your sure to find a combination thats laser accurate in your gun.  Reloading will make even loads with choice componets reasonable comparable with the best .17 HMR loads out there.  Reloading is just another aspect of shooting and can be just as enjoyable, especially when your favorite tailored load preforms unobtrusively for you at a range session.  If you dont reload now...save your brass cuase one day you might and thats one of the more expensive componets and will come in handy later if you do decide to reload.  When its crappy outside and I cant make it to the range I can usually reload some ammo and its just another oppertunity to enjoy yet another aspect of owning and shooting guns.  For some its work, but not me.

Just my Buck 0 Five...

[blind ear]

Can a 17 HMR be rebored to 223 with a twist that will stabalize a 75 gr bullet and shot on a SB2/CBA frame? ear

[quickdtoo]

Can a 17 HMR be rebored to 223 with a twist that will stabalize a 75 gr bullet and shot on a SB2/CBA frame? ear

This is somewhat OT, but yes, it could be, but be aware that rimfire barrels are 1137 mild steel compared to the 4140 alloy of centerfire barrels, If I was gonna do that, I'd rebore a 204 ruger barrel if there's enough bore difference to get there.

Tim

[blind ear]

Tim, sorry for OT, thanks for the info. ear