Author Topic: keep getting wrinkles in my bullets (Read 1807 times)

savage308 · « **on:** January 16, 2011, 02:44:11 PM »

i have a lee bottom pour and lee molds and im using ingots from wheel weights that i had melted last summer. i got the melt to 800 according to my rcbs thermometer and han pre-heated the mold{250 g lee r.e.a.l. muzzelloading} and then i kept getting lines in the bullets so i tried 850 . still lines so i went down to 700 and still the line was there. always in a different place on the bullet . ill tell you my sequence and tell me whats going wrong. i use the wax to flux then skim that off and then pour into the 2 cavity mold. 3 or 4 seconds later i hit the sprue plate and 4 or 5 seconds later i dump both bullets in 1
gallon plastic jug half full of water then wait 5 seconds and fill the mold again. what am i doing wrong?

Tom W. · « **Reply #1 on:** January 16, 2011, 04:20:03 PM »

Clean the mold with a Q-tip and good alcohol, then smoke your cavities with the old style kitchen matches.

Lee molds like to be very hot.

That w/w is gonna be kinda difficult to seat in a muzzleloader...

Robert lehman · « **Reply #2 on:** January 16, 2011, 04:58:45 PM »

I bought a .30 cal Lee mold yesterday and was casting with wheel weights for the first time same problem. I had kerosene heater going in the garage i set my mold on it to preheat and would measure mold temp with a laser temp gun. Had to get the mold temp. up to 300 deg. before the wrinkles went away.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #3 on:** January 17, 2011, 12:48:25 AM »

lee molds need to be run hot. YOur probably casting to slow. If your bullets arent comming out with a frosted look to them you need to increase speed. They tend to run there best just before the point that lead is smearing on the top of the mold.

hornady · « **Reply #4 on:** January 17, 2011, 03:13:29 AM »

One thing I noticed, nothing to do with wrinkles. But you said you are casting from WW for Muzzle loader bullets, if you are talking stick on weights you should be OK. But if these are clip on weights, you may be setting yourself up for trouble. Clip on weights are too hard for muzzleloader. And I have seen guns that guys have stuck a bullet half way down the barrel.
For muzzleloaders you want as pure of lead as possible.

D Garfield · « **Reply #5 on:** January 17, 2011, 03:47:02 AM »

You may not be pouring the lead into the mold fast enough. It took me a while to figure that out. Try filling the mold faster, don't worry about the overpour.

savage308 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 17, 2011, 06:16:16 AM »

thanks to tom w. and all who replied . these were new molds and after a while they were so hot i actually tried cooling them and it didnt help. i will clean them as advised and try again and let you know if it helped .i have an infared temp gun but didnt think to shoot the molds but i will next time.

Dee · « **Reply #7 on:** January 17, 2011, 06:40:13 AM »

When I plug my 35 year old Lyman furnace on, I set the molds on top, and they heat up together. If the bullet wrinkles, molds too cold. If the bullets are frosted looking, leads too hot. Wheel weights is almost all I've ever shot for over 40 years. Dunno about a front stuffer bullet in WW thought. Mighty hard.

Anduril · « **Reply #8 on:** January 17, 2011, 08:44:32 AM »

Quote from: Dee on January 17, 2011, 06:40:13 AM

Dunno about a front stuffer bullet in WW thought. Mighty hard.

even harder if they are water quenched.
look for some soft lead you can scratch easily with your fingernail.
..

blhof · « **Reply #9 on:** January 17, 2011, 01:47:36 PM »

If there's any zinc in your ww lead, you'll get wrinkles eternally. Zinc requires much higher temp to conform to the mold, and as said above; unless it's sticky back flat ww's it's too hard for b/p, unless it's for patched balls with thick patches and even then as a last resort. If you're lubing the sprue plate screw area and pins as stated in the Lee instructions, that can contaminate the mold, it only requires a very small amt. of lube to those areas.

savage308 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 19, 2011, 05:50:11 AM »

i did a hardness test with my LEE hardness tester and it averaged 11 and i could take my thumbnail and scratch the surface and leave a small
mark . what im wondering now is the zink thing. when i originnaly melted the W.W. last summer the zink weights were discarded and the ones that did get into the pot didnt melt becouse of the low temp so i thought i would be ok but i guess not.

Anduril · « **Reply #11 on:** January 19, 2011, 06:35:21 AM »

I don't think it is your lead alloy.

Try cleaning the mould again. Boil it in a pan of water for 15 or 20 minutes. Wash with alcohol (use HEET gas line anit-freeze, it's 99.9% methanol).
"Smoking" the mould with a match might help.
If you lube the mould per the Lee instructions don't over do it.
Run that sucker hot!
..

hornady · « **Reply #12 on:** January 19, 2011, 07:00:40 AM »

I really don’t think its zinc giving you a problem, if the mold cavity is free of grease and oil, the mold is pre-heated, your lead is hot enough and been fluxed properly, It can only be one other things, my first guess would be you are trapping air in the mold when pouring.
Try pouring on the edge of the sprue plate hole. so as to vent the mold.

teamnelson · « **Reply #13 on:** January 19, 2011, 07:45:51 AM »

I've got nothing to add here, I've only been casting a couple of years. But there's a lot of really good advice in this thread!

hornady · « **Reply #14 on:** January 19, 2011, 08:40:45 AM »

308 you can do with this advise, as you want; I just thought I better say something about your lead hardness again.
You say your Lee tester gives it an 11, I am not familiar with the Lee, but I would assume this to be the BH. If so pure lead is about a 6BH, most commercial hard cast bullets run about 18BH.
11BH is what I run in my 45ACP and 45colt.
Also WW have trace amounts of Arsenic, this can double the hardness of water dropped bullets, Arsenic also adds hardness with time, by this I mean a bullet cast from WW tested soon after casting will give a softer reading than 30 days later.
As most casters can tell you, all barrels are different. It would be pretty hard to slug a muzzleloader barrel to find the true diameter.
But all muzzleloader molds are made for pure lead. This means the ball will have an as dropped diameter for use with pure lead, when you start adding alloys like in clip on WW. All bets are off.
The as cast or as dropped diameter will be larger.

blhof · « **Reply #15 on:** January 20, 2011, 07:32:13 AM »

One other thing that I do to keep out voids(wrinkles) is tap the hinge lightly with my wooden dowel that I use to open the sprue plate, on a properly hot mold, it takes a few seconds for the lead on the sprue to harden enough to open without smearing lead across the base, tapping speeds this slightly and hopefully drives out trapped gases.

mauserand9mm · « **Reply #16 on:** January 20, 2011, 11:35:00 PM »

Your mold is getting old...happens to all of us...

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Too cold is the simple answer - keep it hot by casting faster. Metal is an excellent conductor of heat and will dissapate it quick smart - especially aluminium.

The lead needs to be hot enough too. The molten lead is much heavier than air and will displace it out of the mold no problems without any other outside intervention, providing the mold is hot enough. You don't want the mold to cool the lead too quickly otherwise it will tend to solidify before the air can be displaced.

bilmac · « **Reply #17 on:** January 21, 2011, 02:38:47 AM »

I've had some molds that just would not pour perfect bullets no matter what I did, maybe I was using bad lead. What I found is that if the base of the bullet is nice, no marks or imperfections, a big heavy bullet isn't affected much by the fine little lines on the surface. I just shot them for practice and saved the few perfect ones for hunting or matches.

3leggedturtle · « **Reply #18 on:** January 21, 2011, 10:07:16 AM »

I shot Lee 200 gr REAL bullets out of wheelweights all the time thru my 45 Hawken. Never really noticed any difference when loading them. Never shot further than 50 yards but would put them in 2 inches or less pretty often. Also sized them to .452 and shot'em outta my Puma 45 and Contender carbine in 45 Auto. I water cool every bullet i cast.

blhof · « **Reply #19 on:** January 22, 2011, 12:08:41 PM »

BLmac is right about large cal bullets; I used to be very picky about my cast bullets, usually tossing back as many as half my cast. I watched an episode of Mythbusters about trying to get a bullet to curve; they drilled and carved bullets and still got one ragged hole, so I decided to try some of my rejects. In the 357Max there were fliers at 50yds, with the 45 both ACP and LC the group was the same as my perfect and weighed bullets, also tried b/p bullets and round balls with equal success, so now I keep my match quality bullets for hunting, just for that in case factor, and shoot everything else for practice, I still throw back if it's really, really bad, but I get a lot more usable casts per session now.

savage308 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 24, 2011, 09:40:03 AM »

success!!!! i tried the same lead and molds and got the pot to 850 deg. and put the first 10 bullets back in the pot to get the LEE mold real hot
as suggested and then i started dropping some real nice perfect bullets. thanks to all who replied.

savage308 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 27, 2011, 12:37:03 PM »

UPDATE i shot some of the R.E.A.L. boolits thru my cva wolf muzzelloader at 50 yards and had 1" spread witd 2 50 grain 777 pellets but of i did have to force them down the tube pretty hard. dont know for sure if its the WW or just the type of boolit so i stopped by the plumbing supplt and bought my first ever 5 pound ingot of pure lead and will try thet and see what it does

Tom W. · « **Reply #22 on:** January 27, 2011, 02:16:52 PM »

I'd be betting they load a bit easier......

michstew · « **Reply #23 on:** January 27, 2011, 07:12:20 PM »

Hi. Just a quick question. For my BC, what would be better, ww or pure lead in a 405 gr bullet loaded to blackpowder trapdoor levels. Thanks much!! michstew

savage308 · « **Reply #24 on:** February 03, 2011, 10:51:38 AM »

well i terid pure lead and it did load easier BUT it had a 8" spread at 40 yards with 2 50g 777 pellets and a rem209 primer. im going to try a blend of 75 pure lead and 25 WW and see how that does.