Author Topic: EPA Pulls Permits After Four Years  (Read 693 times)

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Offline Sourdough

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EPA Pulls Permits After Four Years
« on: January 17, 2011, 09:12:18 PM »
This is being done all over the country.  It is ruining mining in this country.  How can we manufactoure with out using our Natural Resources.  The Green Power sources do not make enough energy to support manufactoring.  We need Coal, Gas, and Oil.  During the debates before he was elected President, Obama said he would shut down the Coal Industry.  Knowing he could not possiably get this past Congress, he has unleashed the EPA to do it by regulation.  EPA makes and changes the regulations as they see fit.  This not only sends a message to the Coal Industry, but to all the industries in the US.  It will drive them to invest outside the US.  Obama is killing this country.  I got this off Fox News.  Rog  

Obama Coal Crackdown Sends Message to Industry
By Doug McKelway
Published January 17, 2011
| FoxNews.com
A move by the Environmental Protection Agency to revoke the long-standing permits for a mammoth coal mine in West Virginia sends a strong signal that President Obama plans to implement key parts of his agenda even though newly empowered Republicans can block his plans in Congress.
In the aftermath of the November elections, many political pundits predicted that the once-unchecked Obama legislative machine would turn it's energies to federal rulemaking as a way to circumvent Republicans on Capitol Hill. And the EPA’s decision last week suggests that those forecasts were spot-on.
Much to the consternation of the West Virginia delegation in Congress, the coal industry, and the working people of the Mountain State, the agency took the unprecedented step of revoking a mining permit that it had issued four years ago to Arch Coal’s Spruce No. 1 Mine in Logan County, West Virginia.
The revocation prompted unusually harsh responses from West Virginia's two Democratic Senators.
Sen. Jay Rockefeller sent the president a letter which read, in part: "I am writing to express my outrage with the Environmental Protection Agency's (EPA) decision to veto a rigorously reviewed and lawfully issued permit at the Spruce Number 1 Mine in Logan County, West Virginia. This action not only affects this specific permit, but needlessly throws other permits into a sea of uncertainty at a time of great economic distress."
Sen. Joe Manchin issued a statement which appeared to mock the EPA's permitting process.
"According to the EPA, it doesn't matter if you did everything right, if you followed all of the rules,” Manchin wrote. “Why? They just change the rules."
There are many critics of Appalachian surface mining, called “mountaintop removal.” The practice uses heavy explosives to expose seams of coal in the ridges of Southern West Virginia, Eastern Kentucky and Western Virginia. After the demolition crews flatten out the ridge tops into plateaus.
Critics claim that by changing the topography of the ridges of the coalfields, the practice is robbing mountaineers of their heritage. Environmentalists also claim that the rock and rubble from the mines kills fish, wildlife and pollutes water.
Indeed, it was a violation of the Clean Water Act, that prompted the EPA to revoke the permit at the Spruce No. 1 Mine.
"The agency took this action because this proposed mine would use destructive and unsustainable mining practices that jeopardize the health of Appalachian communities and clean water on which they depend,” read the agency’s statement.
The coal industry defends the mining practices and the reclamation efforts that they say leaves usable land for development in the cramped hollows of Appalachia. But the central argument against the EPA’s move is about jobs.
"It's just the arrogance of the EPA,” said Bill Raney of the West Virginia Coal Association. “The people in Logan County want the permit. It's important to the company. It's critically important to Logan County."
The environmental concerns over surface mining were well-known when the EPA first issued the permit in 2007. Since that time, Arch Coal has made millions of dollars in infrastructure investments in the mine, perhaps the largest ever in the region --investments which are now threatened by the EPA permit revocation.
" I don't think it's the American way," says Brad Blakeman, an advisor to former President George W. Bush. "I don’t think we rule retro-actively when businesses invested a lot of money, legally, in a permitting system that was certainly above board and they followed every rule and procedure that EPA had at the time and now to be told after-the-fact that this is now improper or legal, I think is wrong.”
Blakeman says it sends a chilling message to other industries about the power of the Federal government. He suggests that it will be up to the other two branches of our government , the courts and the Congress to decide whether the EPA's revocation of this permit , and perhaps others, stands.
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Offline mechanic

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Re: EPA Pulls Permits After Four Years
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2011, 01:15:35 AM »
This I am afraid is only the beginning.  I have not used wood for heat in years, but last week I bought a used wood heater......Like most I 've only got so much money and if it all goes to utitlities, there is none left for food.  A fact our president does not understand apparently....
Molon Labe, (King Leonidas of the Spartan Army)

Offline Shu

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Re: EPA Pulls Permits After Four Years
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2011, 02:12:11 AM »
I can remember when the luxury tax was put before congress. It was to add extra taxes on things like airconditioning. I live where it gets 105-115 in the summer. Airconditioning is not a luxury. This fortunately went away with Al Gore.
The one thing about the EPA, they will shut down anything they can. What would replace coal fired power plants. Nothing really. There isn't enough "green" electricity generation. Nuclear energy would be great. The greenies would hate that of course. I guess we could use the argument France uses it so it has got to be good. ;D

Consider the US Navy has operated many nuclear reactors for years without incident. Oh and these reactors are managed by 18-25 year old kids. Wonder why civilian nuclear power has problems.

Offline Stillkickin

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Re: EPA Pulls Permits After Four Years
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2011, 06:20:50 AM »
Don't you remember, when he was campaigning for president, obama vowing that he would eliminate the entire coal industry?  I remember it clearly.

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: EPA Pulls Permits After Four Years
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2011, 06:39:19 AM »
If you don't want coal, you have to go nuclear or natural gas.  If all coal burning plants converted to natural gas, our 200 year supply would become a 50 year supply, which is what is actually happening.  I live in Alabama and am a natural gas engineer.  1/3 of our gas supply goes to Alabama Power in the summer as they have converted several plants from coal to natural gas.  Natural gas is found in shale seams, oil, coal mines, and by itself.  It is also found offshore with oil.  Shutting down offshore oil, and coal mining cuts part of the supply.  A lot of places where it is found in shale are being shut down now.  Obama is destroying our economy and our energy sources.  Electric cars aren't going to work, cost and time it takes to recharge.  High speed trains are more expensive and doesn't have a payback.   Planes are faster, but now held up by the scanners and some people aren't flying but driving.  Heres what will happen.

1) Natural gas goes up because of demand and only hard to get to gas makes it more expensive. 
2) Power goes up because of the limited supply of coal and higher natural gas prices.
3) Oil goes up because of demand for fuel oil power plants.
4) Environmental wacos keep solar and wind from being installed.
5) Food goes up because of the demand for oil causing pestisides and higher fuel costs for farm equipment.
6) More industry locates overseas because of less expensive fuel and power, not just labor and regulations.
7) Demand for fire wood causes wood prices to climb, and further kills what is left of homebuilding because homes become higher. 

We become a third world country with high unemployment, high energy costs, high health care costs, with an abundance of natural resources that makes us an overripe fruit just for the taking.  Just like Lenin predicted. 

Offline rdmallory

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Re: EPA Pulls Permits After Four Years
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2011, 06:57:42 AM »
Transportation rates go up because the Rail industry (When owns a large majority of the US coal mines) has to subsidize the loss of coal revenue.

Doug

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: EPA Pulls Permits After Four Years
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2011, 09:57:17 AM »
Obama's policies are slowly and surely are ment to destroy America.  When the economy is down, some things need to slack up to get people working, like the EPA and health care fiasco.  Jobs and keeping people working is more important.  Incentives should be given to keep people working.  Low cost abundant energy is necessary for industry, commerce, and transportation.  Utilities and transportation fuel are a necessity for our economy.  Farm goods, raw materials, moving people, what is left of manufacturing, all need abundant fuel and low cost fuel.  Coal, natural gas, and oil are all necessary for the forseeable future 50-100 years out.  A nuclear power plant takes about 10 years to get into service.  Changing vehicles to diesel and natural gas will take about 20 years to transition.  If all cars were electric, we need to increase electric production for recharging by 1/3 to 1/2 more than what is now being produced.  The only alternative to coal for this is nuclear and wind.  Wind will only work in the plains states and near certain seacoasts.  Electric vehicles are not effective for long distance travel and will not be for 50-100 years.  So there are no other alternatives.  Maybe algae oil, or cow manure natural gas.  Neither at this time are cost effective. 

Offline Shu

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Re: EPA Pulls Permits After Four Years
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2011, 08:06:42 AM »
Maybe we could bottle up what the politicians are throwing out it seems to be a constant energy source of hot wind. We could use that to produce electricty and if we could find a way to store the heat for winter we would have it made.

It just hit me. I know why we have global warming. It is the hot wind coming from DC.

Well maybe if the politicians would share what they are smoking it would ease us into there way of thinking. :D

Offline Pat/Rick

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Re: EPA Pulls Permits After Four Years
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2011, 08:37:24 AM »
Don't you remember, when he was campaigning for president, obama vowing that he would eliminate the entire coal industry?  I remember it clearly.

Yep. The question I have is, if the libs who scream about any form of energy producing plants,transportation, etc,etc, Why don't they voluntarily disconnect their electricity, walk everywhere, and live in stone or mud huts??

Offline williamlayton

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Re: EPA Pulls Permits After Four Years
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2011, 12:31:20 AM »
In Texas we are having the same story.
Plants have refused to abide by EPA standards to clean up the polution---acid rain---and it has resulted in crop damage to neighboring agriculture intrest---Pecan growers.
The state refused to act on the results of evidence and the EPA had to step in.
I agree with private business policing theirownselves---most of the time they don't and their freedom ends at the fence where they operate.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Spanky

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Re: EPA Pulls Permits After Four Years
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2011, 01:05:15 AM »
How about telling the coal industry to clean up their act instead of blaming the EPA?
If it's one mine in particular that was targeted then wouldn't it make sense that there is a problem with that mine? I don't see where any other mining permits were pulled. Just my opinion...  :-\



Spanky

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: EPA Pulls Permits After Four Years
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2011, 02:45:03 AM »
We must go with nuclear power.  It is the only way to mass produce electricity that doesn't require fossil fuels or windmills in areas where population is thin.  It we converted to synthetic diesel from coal, transportation still would not replace the amount used by the power industry.  In fact a lot of coal is exported now to China and India.  Eventually algae farms will replace oil, even if we allow drilling in Alaska, out west, and offshore.  It will be less expensive to build algae farms.  Even Muslim nations realise that oil will eventually run out, and they are going nuclear power, or solar power. 

Offline beerbelly

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Re: EPA Pulls Permits After Four Years
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2011, 03:19:07 AM »
The EPA should be killed by congress! It has sent more of our manufacturing jobs over seas than any other source! Right now they are going about imposing cap and trade on us!
  Why have a congress if they are going to hand over to some agency the power to rule us! This is their job not some agency.

Offline Sourdough

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Re: EPA Pulls Permits After Four Years
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2011, 07:45:16 PM »
EPA on Friday January 21, 2011 disapproved a permit that had been approved two years ago to build a bridge across the Tanana River.   Their reason was lack of justification.

The late Senator Ted Stevens got funding to build this bridge.  The bridge will give access for the Army to training lands on the other side of the river that is only availiable during the winter when the river is frozen, or with the use of helicopters during the rest of the year.  The second and most important reason to most Alaskans is that this is one link to getting the Railroad to Delta Junction.  1/3rd of the way to the Canadian Border, from Fairbanks.
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What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline gypsyman

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Re: EPA Pulls Permits After Four Years
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2011, 02:43:09 AM »
Just another step for this administration to put this country into collapse. It will take years, maybe decade's, before alternative energy source's can be a major percentage of what we need. You don't shut down what's keeping things running right now. Like an obese person going on a diet. If you just quit eating, you die. Change over slowly. It took a century for the country to get where its at, with coal,gas and nuclear. Can't change it over in just a couple years. gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman