Author Topic: The Worst Deer Calibers Ever (Read 10637 times)

The Famous Grouse · « **on:** January 18, 2011, 05:22:04 AM »

Predictably, this article in Peterson's Hunting magazine generated a few responses.

The Worst Deer Calibers Ever:

http://www.petersenshunting.com/content/worst-deer-calibers-ever

I have to say, taking the emotion out of it, I have to mostly agree with his opinions as they relate to deer. Even though I own guns chambered in 3 of the 11 cartridges named.

I can't agree with his opinion of the .243 however, and he does kind of backtrack all over this by stating that even though it's one of the worst deer calibers, he whacked 2 deer stone dead with it just this season. And he rates it highly as an antelope caliber. What the heck? Correct me if I'm wrong, but pronghorn are roughly the same size as the deer (whitetails) are around these parts AND the shots on pronghorn tend to be a lot longer than the shots we take here in the North Woods. Granted we don't do the deer feeders and corn spreaders to fatten up our deer like the Texas hunting ranches do, so in that case he could be right.

Overall, I can see three trends in the cartridges he chooses for the "Worst Ever" list: The trend toward using huge, heavy magnum calibers for deer, clinging to obsolete calibers that were OK back in their day, but have now been surpassed, and the use of oddball or wildcat calibers that can only be made to work through extensive gunsmithing and handloading efforts.

Anyone else read the article?

Grouse

jasonprox700 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 18, 2011, 05:55:11 AM »

I couldn't really agree with some of the calibers he chose. And like you, I thought he did some back tracking. He should have left more of his "opinion" out of the article and focused more on the unworthy benefits of each.

briarpatch · « **Reply #2 on:** January 18, 2011, 06:27:20 AM »

A mans inability to hunt and shoot has generated a list?

markp · « **Reply #3 on:** January 18, 2011, 06:41:22 AM »

  This article was tongue in cheek as the author said. It is not a serious article. Taken as tongue in cheek he made it funny by stretching the faults
  or perceived faults of these cartridges as far as he could. Rate the cartridges with deer turds....thats funny .........he made the article funny and
  it is not a serious article. Some of these are very good deer cartridges . He knows this..............it was comedy not meant to be serious or
  factual. Thats all. I enjoyed the article for what it was meant to be.........funny. Thanks for pointing it out.

HogFan · « **Reply #4 on:** January 18, 2011, 06:49:13 AM »

Between him and Craig Boddington, it seems this article or one like it springs up every year. I have killed a few deer with the .243 and .280. I don't consider either of them turds. I do agree though, you may not get a lot of blood from a deer shot with a .243, but that can be said about any cartridge. Use the wrong bullet for the job, or hit in the wrong spot, and voila no blood or very little. My son lost the first deer he ever shot this past Nov. with a .243. Three tiny drops of blood where the deer was at, and then about another 15-20 yards before we picked up any more blood. Once we got on trail, there was blood every where for about 75 yards, and then little blood again. I believe the deer was stolen by another hunter, as we ran across him right where we last saw blood. He told us his daughter had shot a doe, but a. he had no daughter or gun with him during a youth hunt, and b. there was no other shots heard any where near us, and we ran into this guy about 100 yards from us, and he was trespassing. I don't blame that on poor cartridge, but rather poor shot placement.

mannyrock · « **Reply #5 on:** January 18, 2011, 07:30:02 AM »

I love this Article. It's witty, opinionated, sarcastic, blasphamous, and meant to be controversial and fun! These factors are sorely lacking in the vast majority of modern magazine articles.

Don't take it seriously and get bent out of shape. Laugh.

I don't agree with all of his choices, but I do agree with about 80% of them. And, as he clearly stated, his references were only to factory ammo in these calibers, and not folks who handload them.

Of course, there are inevitable holes in his logic. He argues that the .300 Savage and .303 British are bad deer rounds, . . . but he doesn't mention the .30-30 Winchester, which is plainly inferior to both of them???

He probably should have just written his article by starting at the opposite pole, and calling it, "The 7mm-08, .30-06, and .270 are the finest deer hunting cartridges in the world, and we could just throw all of the rest of them in the trash!" :-) I think that lots of folks would have agreed with that!

Mannyrock

nomosendero · « **Reply #6 on:** January 18, 2011, 08:47:38 AM »

I read it, basically filler material.

guzzijohn · « **Reply #7 on:** January 18, 2011, 09:00:49 AM »

.22 short?
GuzziJohn

stubshaft · « **Reply #8 on:** January 18, 2011, 10:15:38 AM »

Quote from: guzzijohn on January 18, 2011, 09:00:49 AM

.22 short?
GuzziJohn

The short is 2X as effective as a .25ACP.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #9 on:** January 18, 2011, 10:56:24 AM »

First of all there are four different deer in the US.
White tail,
Mule Deer
Coues Deer
and Black tail
Of the white tail and mule deer I have hunted there are different ways and terrains to hunt.
The coues deer are small white tails, but seprerated
and Black tail are in the rain forrests of the pacific north west.
How can you have a single caliber or rifle that is set up to handle things from the bean fields of the south east, to the deserts of Az, to the rain forrests of Washington state.
Not to mention that white tails in colder climates are larger than those in the warmer climates. A deer guys that hunt our farm in NC think are huge, guys in Montana think should have spots on it and compared the the deer they have that weight 2X or more as the 80 to 125 pound swamp deer.
I am sure 32-20 or 25-20 would be on his list but they have taken many deer and commets like this will baffle guys where 100 yards plus is the normal and any of the bean field guys
243 and 30-30 are the bench marks for white tail deer in the woods and as most deer are shot under 80 yards.
The guys I hunt with in Id and Mt like the 257 calibers in either 250 Savage or the 25-06, 257 Wby, or the douplcate of 25-06 the 25WSSM for the flat trajectory and being able to reach out.
the size of the deer and the terrain are going to dictate what you use. From pistol calibers to belted mags all will kill deer.
The blunt round nose bullets have a rep for brush bucking, when they deliver a large amount of energy and tend to knock down deer.
If you ask the guys Dad started hunting with in upstate NY where there was not 100 yard shot even looking down a paved road almost anything will kill deer and the cheaper the bullets the better. My Uncle used a 222 Rem for years with great effect and a 55 grain soft point in the boiler room from 30 yards does aweful things to a deer.
I also find these same writters that say the 30-30 and the 243 are marginal are the same ones that say 44 Mag is fine out of a handgun. ?? the largest and fastest loads from a 44 mag out of a handgun are not close in foot pounds to the 30-30

The Famous Grouse · « **Reply #10 on:** January 18, 2011, 11:15:33 AM »

Quote from: mannyrock on January 18, 2011, 07:30:02 AM

I love this Article. It's witty, opinionated, sarcastic, blasphamous, and meant to be controversial and fun! These factors are sorely lacking in the vast majority of modern magazine articles. Don't take it seriously and get bent out of shape. Laugh.

I don't agree with all of his choices, but I do agree with about 80% of them. And, as he clearly stated, his references were only to factory ammo in these calibers, and not folks who handload them.

Of course, there are inevitable holes in his logic. He argues that the .300 Savage and .303 British are bad deer rounds, . . . but he doesn't mention the .30-30 Winchester, which is plainly inferior to both of them???

I totally agree and obviously many that wrote letters/emails to complain missed the tongue-in-cheek statement. It's just good clean fun, but it also provokes thought even when there's no right answer.

Except, as you rightly point out, for the .30-30, which I generally refer to as, "The greatest deer-wounding rifle of all time." Yes, your grandpappy took a lot of deer with the .30-30. That's because he didn't have anything better. Times and rifles change.

There. That outta get them going.

Grouse

briarpatch · « **Reply #11 on:** January 18, 2011, 07:19:43 PM »

The 30 30 has no say in the matter. Its the man using it that wounds.

crash87 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 19, 2011, 02:50:51 AM »

I think the guy hit the nail on the head, unfortunatley, for him, He missed and hit his thumb. "Hows that for recoil pal?" Seriously guys, Have you ever noticed in the gun hack business there is a time where there is a lull in the action? After hunting season, but before, "new stuff"? Or, a hack, just hasnt been in his limelight of late. Articles like this appear, in between, to get the juices flowing, insight letters, and make the publishers and in effect advertizers all warm and fuzzy when a barage of letters, e-mails and texts come in. Gives them a head count and and lets them know the buyers are still out here and "paying attention" Just my opinion, thanks for reading. CRASH87
P.S. the 243 is a girly gun, I should know, I've hunted with one off and on for 30 years. A Ruger tang safety model 77, lots of 1sts for me, a cartridge that clearly needs a premium bullet to cleanly kill a woodchuck, Riiiiiight. LOL

guzzijohn · « **Reply #13 on:** January 19, 2011, 03:08:04 AM »

For anyone that poo poos the .243, would you want your gut to look like this coyote's that made the mistake of crossing the ice on my pond.
GuzziJohn

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #14 on:** January 19, 2011, 06:08:53 AM »

Except, as you rightly point out, for the .30-30, which I generally refer to as, "The greatest deer-wounding rifle of all time." Yes, your grandpappy took a lot of deer with the .30-30. That's because he didn't have anything better. Times and rifles change.

Grouse

[/quote]
Last November went to Mt with a buddy to hunt and his cousin's kid shot two large cow elk with his 30-30.
Both were Bang trot flop. the trot was not far, 40 yards.
So how can round that kills elk be a deer wounding round?
Good hits are good hits.

pastorp · « **Reply #15 on:** January 19, 2011, 08:55:04 AM »

It's all about money. The writer has to write to get paid.

Regards,

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #16 on:** January 20, 2011, 04:21:54 AM »

Quote

Coyote Hunter said...
Sun, 01/02/2011 - 09:08
If this article wasn't tongue-in-cheek, as stated at the outset, I'd have to say the author is a complete moron.

Deer range from the “dog” deer of some coastal areas (I’m thinking California in particular) to Mulies and northern whitetails. People hunt them at ranges near and far, and what works best for one person may not be suitable for another.

Little did I know, back in 1982 when I bought my first centerfire, that the 7mm RM was both a “Hit-em-again” wimp as some claim and an overpowered “violent recoil machine” as the author claims. That rifle served me very well for the next 20+ years, taking prairie dogs, coyotes, antelope, mule deer and elk with boring, reliable efficiency. Every animal I’ve shot with that rifle went straight down or no more than a few yards in the case of elk. Recoil was very tolerable and I’ve yet to get hit by the scope. Ignorance is bliss, I guess.

A Marlin in .375 Winchester followed me home one day and has since proven its ability. So far I’ve only taken coyotes and one antelope with it but have been impressed each time. Coyotes drop where they stand. The antelope made a death leap and was dead when it hit the ground. Nice exit with minimal meat damage, as one would expect with a 225 grain bullet at .30-30 velocities. Never very popular, the .375 Win is nonetheless a fine cartridge that gets carried when combing the woods and scrub on combined deer and elk hunts.

I do agree on the .243 Win – it is a cartridge for experts, not kids with no experience – especially on larger game like elk. I’ve seen more elk lost to a .243 Win than probably all other cartridges put together. In the right hands with the right bullet it makes a fine antelope and deer cartridge, however.

The .444 Marlin is a fine choice for close-in work. It makes big holes that let lots of blood out quickly. I’ve never had one but I have taken deer and elk at 197 and 213 yards respectively with my .45-70. The deer made it a few yards and leaked so much blood it looked like someone had sloshed blood from a bucket onto the snow. The 6x6 bull went straight down. The .444 is just a step behind the .45-70 and is a great choice for many hunters.

Never had a .300 Savage, either, but it is a wonderful choice for deer, as many owners will attest. The 8x57 and .303 are poor choices? I don’t care for the rim on the .303, but a “9” rating? Really?

The author gives the .300 RUM a “3” for deer while complaining about recoil from the much milder 7mm RM??? what in the world???

The author complains about recoil for the 7mm RM, touts the 7mm-08 for kids, and rates the .280 Rem, which sits in the middle, a “4”? Bullet selection (as components) for the .280 Rem is much better that for the .270 Win and it hits harder than the 7mm-08 with less recoil than a 7mm RM. The .280 Rem is an especially fine choice for reloaders. Never a popular choice, but never a bad one, either. (I’ll stick with my 7mm RM, though.)

Read more: http://www.petersenshunting.com/content/worst-deer-calibers-ever#ixzz1BaZ02kms

Update to the above…

Last weekend I put $200 on a Ruger #1 in .280 Rem. Total price is $600 and includes the rings and a new box of factory ammo. Will pick it up when I get home from Miami. The Ruger has a Moyers trigger and an electroless nickel finish.

One reason I got it was I’ve been reloading for my 7mm RM since 1982 – all I need is .280 Rem dies. Looks like I’m going to be a .280 Rem fan.

jasonprox700 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 20, 2011, 04:54:24 AM »

Update to the above…

Last weekend I put $200 on a Ruger #1 in .280 Rem. Total price is $600 and includes the rings and a new box of factory ammo. Will pick it up when I get home from Miami. The Ruger has a Moyers trigger and an electroless nickel finish.

One reason I got it was I’ve been reloading for my 7mm RM since 1982 – all I need is .280 Rem dies. Looks like I’m going to be a .280 Rem fan.

[/quote]

You will like! Milder than the 7mag, but yet still very close ballistics wise. I have on now and am thinking about having one built in .280 AI on a Rem 700 action.

Brithunter · « **Reply #18 on:** January 23, 2011, 02:23:26 AM »

Hmmm it might have been meant as tongue in cheek but seeing as how he does not know the difference between a cartridge and a calibre I didn't bother to read it.

Savage .250 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 23, 2011, 02:47:19 AM »

Tonque in cheek opinion? Just something to read.

bubba · « **Reply #20 on:** January 23, 2011, 03:08:20 AM »

Quote from: mcwoodduck on January 19, 2011, 06:08:53 AM

Except, as you rightly point out, for the .30-30, which I generally refer to as, "The greatest deer-wounding rifle of all time." Yes, your grandpappy took a lot of deer with the .30-30. That's because he didn't have anything better. Times and rifles change.

Grouse

Last November went to Mt with a buddy to hunt and his cousin's kid shot two large cow elk with his 30-30.
Both were Bang trot flop. the trot was not far, 40 yards.
So how can round that kills elk be a deer wounding round
Good hits are good hits.
[/quote]

Yeah calibers and times have changed, but not necessarily forthe better. But, the deer have not become some super breed that it takes the latest touted best magnum caliber. If my mom and uncle could take a lot of deer with a 30-30, anyone can. And I am willing to bet the 300 savage I have in my cabinet has taken more deer than any magnum you own.

jim deerhide · « **Reply #21 on:** January 23, 2011, 03:57:51 AM »

Ha ha ha!
He is making fun of good calibers and it could of been .270's or 30-06, we'd be argueing them too and some of us would agree.
I did put three 180 grain Core Lokts from a 742 in 30-06 through a spike buck's ribs, the first one at 7 yards. He dropped when the 4th. one glanced off of a little maple and connected with his shoulder.
Then there was the 12 ga. at 20 yards, good sized doe, bang/flop, broken shoulder........#6 Redline and then the 8 pointer at 37 measured yards, same gun same shell kept running with tail tucked. The killer; heart, liver and lungs with #6's. Why? I had killed his twin with a slug but fired the other barrel because he wasn't 'down'.
.350 Remington 'belted' magnum at 12 or 15 yards, broadside shot on a small doe and it ran over 100 yards, had to get a tracking dog to find it!
It's where you hit them not with what.

Jim

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #22 on:** January 23, 2011, 12:49:11 PM »

Quote from: jasonprox700 on January 20, 2011, 04:54:24 AM

Quote from: Coyote Hunter on January 20, 2011, 04:21:54 AM
Update to the above…

Last weekend I put $200 on a Ruger #1 in .280 Rem. Total price is $600 and includes the rings and a new box of factory ammo. Will pick it up when I get home from Miami. The Ruger has a Moyers trigger and an electroless nickel finish.

One reason I got it was I’ve been reloading for my 7mm RM since 1982 – all I need is .280 Rem dies. Looks like I’m going to be a .280 Rem fan.

You will like! Milder than the 7mag, but yet still very close ballistics wise. I have on now and am thinking about having one built in .280 AI on a Rem 700 action.

Here’s a pic. Mounted a Burris FFII 4.5-14xAO w/ Ballistic Plex reticle this morning.

squirrellluck · « **Reply #23 on:** January 23, 2011, 03:21:08 PM »

Really like my 30-06 AI but didn't think there was factory ammo for it?

nomosendero · « **Reply #24 on:** February 03, 2011, 05:54:27 PM »

Quote from: Coyote Hunter on January 23, 2011, 12:49:11 PM

Quote from: jasonprox700 on January 20, 2011, 04:54:24 AM
Quote from: Coyote Hunter on January 20, 2011, 04:21:54 AM
Update to the above…

Last weekend I put $200 on a Ruger #1 in .280 Rem. Total price is $600 and includes the rings and a new box of factory ammo. Will pick it up when I get home from Miami. The Ruger has a Moyers trigger and an electroless nickel finish.

One reason I got it was I’ve been reloading for my 7mm RM since 1982 – all I need is .280 Rem dies. Looks like I’m going to be a .280 Rem fan.

You will like! Milder than the 7mag, but yet still very close ballistics wise. I have on now and am thinking about having one built in .280 AI on a Rem 700 action.

Here’s a pic. Mounted a Burris FFII 4.5-14xAO w/ Ballistic Plex reticle this morning.

Very nice!!

P.A. Myers · « **Reply #25 on:** February 03, 2011, 10:33:37 PM »

Dont leave out the 32 special It is hard to believe Winchester came out with something this bad. Its not a power issue, you are lucky to hit a pieplate at 50 yards.

Swampman · « **Reply #26 on:** February 04, 2011, 12:26:14 AM »

An excellent article. I agree with his choices but he left out the 7mm-08.

ironglow · « **Reply #27 on:** February 04, 2011, 12:55:22 AM »

So he wasn't very inspired this month...Hey; he still HAD to write SOMETHING !

I used to live where I had among other things.. a large, marshy area of both standing and fallen timbers and much undergrowth. One could not see beyond 35-40 yards at best. I harvested 2 deer from that morass, both with an H&R .44 mag rifle. I couldn't think of a better cartidge for that task unless it were the 12 ga slug which I had to use for years.
Now I hunt mostly hardwoods with intersperced small fields in the northeren end of the Appalachain chain. I used the venerable 30/30 most of the time and with a lifetime of hunting most of my deer have been bang-flops. I don't claim to be a world class shot , or 'lucky'beyond usual, but rather ...I PICK my shots. So the 30/30 is the "great wounder"...it sure is, it has wounded millions of deer to death !
If I were to hunt larger open spaces than I have here or even hunt the long, clear cut power line lanes, I may use a .270 or similar, but I don't.

I think this young fellow has mistaken poor shot placement for cartridge inadequacy. Whitetail deer, even these northeastern ones are not armored vehicles..and a well placed shot from any of the usual deer rifles will do the job, providing the right ammo is used.
I find it interesting that the author did not even consider the differences between the various bullet types, even the available factory loadings..from Ballistic point across the spectrum, to FMJ..
...But he HAD to write SOMETHING !!

The Famous Grouse · « **Reply #28 on:** February 12, 2011, 05:25:46 PM »

Quote from: bubba on January 23, 2011, 03:08:20 AM

Yeah calibers and times have changed, but not necessarily forthe better. But, the deer have not become some super breed that it takes the latest touted best magnum caliber. If my mom and uncle could take a lot of deer with a 30-30, anyone can. And I am willing to bet the 300 savage I have in my cabinet has taken more deer than any magnum you own.

I don't own any magnum calibers.

Everbody knows somebody who's taken "a lot" (whatever that means) of deer with the .30-30. The .30-30 is a a perfectly adequate rifle for bait pile hunting where short, easy shots are the norm. I'm sure there are plenty of people who took "a lot" of deer with .22 rimfires, but that doesn't' make them a good deer rifle.

The .30-30 is a cartridge whose time has come and gone. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't sell Grandpappy's Ol' Meat Getter .30-30 because it's a part of history. But I wouldn't hunt with it for exactly the same reason.

Where I hunt, using antiquated cartridges doesn't make sense because baiting isn't legal (and even if it were, it still wouldn't be ethical) and therefore short, easy shots aren't the norm.

Grouse

cwlongshot · « **Reply #29 on:** February 13, 2011, 12:47:14 AM »

I just read this trash...

These writers MAKE and BREAK a caliber. The big names, the ones we all like to read endorse a product cause they proclaim it thor's hammer or some such and people believe it. People can be so naive... You all know how I HATE miss information... that's all this story was!!

Now I know he starts out saying its a tongue in cheek kinda story and doesn't apply to me as I am a re loader. But more so, it shouldn't apply to many people...at least most of the ones I read here and talk with continually as you/they all have COMMON SENSE!! Its not the singer its the song, its not the caliber, its the hunter!

His first "worst" caliber is the 7MM Mag... His #1 reason for condemning it is recoil??? Come On... Back up the bus here... in his first couple paragraphs didn't he proclaim the 30-06 as likely all anyone would need where it the only one out there?? Check the numbers guys... the 7 maggie has but a couple pound more recoil!!!! 3000fps for a 140 Gr??? Is he quoting 7mm-08 ballistics???

His second choice is 22CF's.. Isn't the title of this story Worst deer rounds?? Now maybe its me, but in the majority of places 22CF are NOT LEGAL for big game! (I know some allow it)

Then the 44mag, 375 Win and 444.. what the 300 Savage??? This guy is off his meds, some village is missing its idiot!!!! I could go on and on but its insulting to anyone's intelligence!! This guy is an idiot for certain!!

The sole caliber he lists the 351SL is about the only one I would agree with him on. But they are SO RARE to find a gun to shoot let alone ammo, why mention it!! Why not mention the 401SL is another as is the 35SL or even the 30 carbine or the 300 Whisper I mentioned before... Even ANY of these in the hands of a experienced hunter will fill the freezers until the ammo is expended...

Its not even entertaining as a "tongue in cheek" read... I'll "skip" any further Skip Knowles stories. Thank you

CW