Author Topic: The Worst Deer Calibers Ever (Read 10641 times)

ironglow · « **Reply #30 on:** February 13, 2011, 02:26:48 AM »

I simply must agree with CW longshot;
This writer must have an article every month or bi-monthly..whenever the schedule of the magazine being published.. So! he ran dry, intellectually. It must have been "tongue-in-cheek" or else the author is truly delusional..
Let's get this straight right no, the whitetail deer, even in it's larger strains such as in the midwest and here in the north , are NOT HUMVEES with upgraded armor..they are "soft skinned" medium game (CXP2) for Heaven's sake !
One here says the 30/30 is antequated..here is 30 pages of hunters who almost to a man, disgree:
http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,45826.0/topicseen.html

I say that within it's preferred conditions, it may be a pre-eminent round ! Yes, anything over 200 yards..certain other rounds may have an edge, but under that a 30/30 is all that is needed and it is usually chambered in a handy woods/brush rifle.
Many hunters today fall for the latest rounds.... much ballyhooed by the magazine scribes. Caution..the greatest, most flat shooting rifle cartridge..cannot make up for poor marksmanship ! Although I won't use mine for such, a .22 hornet to the head/neck will down a whitetail buck and any sportsman worth his salt (IMO) will not take the chancy "running shots" for both humane and safety reasons.
It is a sportsman's duty to be sure his shooting skills are equal to the task before him, that's why many of us will often hunt with a single shot rifle..the old hunters prayer which my Dad had on his den wall for years said;

" Lord let me shoot clean and kill clean..but if I can't kill clean; please Lord let me miss clean"

I like CW's byline at the bottom of his posts..."beware the man who has but one rifle...." same idea

BTW;
World's worst deer cartridge..I can out-hyperbolize that author... How about the .22 CB cap ?

Dave in WV · « **Reply #31 on:** February 13, 2011, 04:50:00 AM »

Let's face it, deer are tougher these days. They are now literate, have chronographs, calipers, and have subscriptions to all the gun rags.

According to the article the .243 is sub standard but leaves out the 250 Savage with the 87gr bullet to get the 3000 fps (it has a much larger diameter than the .243 and with 100gr bullets is slower) , the 6MM Rem with it's 100 fps greater speed (but use the same 6mm bullets as the .243), the .270 Win with it's obvious advantage over the .280 (it's only sins were imposed by Remington), and the 300 H&H (no advantage over the 300 Win Mag(s).

Swampman · « **Reply #32 on:** February 13, 2011, 05:10:16 AM »

If you read the article, he explains why the losers are losers.....and does a good job of it.

Dave in WV · « **Reply #33 on:** February 13, 2011, 06:22:15 AM »

Quote from: Swampman700 on February 04, 2011, 12:26:14 AM

An excellent article. I agree with his choices but he left out the 7mm-08.

No, he wrote to use it instead of the .243.

He also did not state what bullet his mom used in her .243. You must like the article becasue he agrees with you. Going by ammo and reloading die sales the .243 is in the top ten and so is the 7mm Rem mag.

Swampman · « **Reply #34 on:** February 13, 2011, 06:26:18 AM »

I like the article because he's mostly right.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #35 on:** February 13, 2011, 06:53:10 AM »

Quote from: Swampman700 on February 13, 2011, 06:26:18 AM

I like the article because he's mostly right.

Dosen't surprise me one bit... If be was right I would also agree with him. He is not he is an idiot.

CW

Freezer · « **Reply #36 on:** February 13, 2011, 07:36:30 AM »

He accomplished exactly what he wanted. His article has created debate in forums all over the web! He makes a living stirring the pot. I was please to see that he rated his opinion. I agree with some and other parts I don't. He made his points and though I own a 280 and love it, it is a handloaders caliber. I shot a deer in the neck at 181 yards with a Savage 99f in 300 Savage and own one in 308. He badly disrespected a fine rifle when he was aiming at the cartridge and outside of not being readily available it's a good one. He did similarly to the 8mm Mauser. I made a fine sporter for a friend and the original barrel shot MOA. Though I could make it sing with hand loads the factory ammo was fine for out to two hundred yards.

ironglow · « **Reply #37 on:** February 13, 2011, 07:50:10 AM »

Quote from: Swampman700 on February 13, 2011, 05:10:16 AM

If you read the article, he explains why the losers are losers.....and does a good job of it.

It's not the rounds that are the losers..consider instead, the author.

ironglow · « **Reply #38 on:** February 14, 2011, 12:33:56 AM »

Dave WV says;
Let's face it, deer are tougher these days. They are now literate, have chronographs, calipers, and have subscriptions to all the gun rags.

Dave, you forgot to mention they also have turbo-charged up ATVs, carry Blackberries with GPS, and have recently be spotted ordering Kevlar body armor !

buffermop · « **Reply #39 on:** February 14, 2011, 12:50:59 AM »

Get this guy another job, as a writer , he doesn't make it.

351 power · « **Reply #40 on:** February 14, 2011, 06:29:45 AM »

most of the crap in those mags is worthless. sell jobs by "professional outdoorsmen". the only mags with value are backwoodsman and fur fish and game. and none of the mags come home with me unless there are some stories with useful info. opinions i can get for free

Casull · « **Reply #41 on:** February 14, 2011, 07:12:48 AM »

Quote

I like the article because he's mostly right.

Sorry, I just can't take a guy in white boots seriously.

ironglow · « **Reply #42 on:** February 14, 2011, 09:12:00 AM »

Quote from: 351 power on February 14, 2011, 06:29:45 AM

most of the crap in those mags is worthless. sell jobs by "professional outdoorsmen". the only mags with value are backwoodsman and fur fish and game. and none of the mags come home with me unless there are some stories with useful info. opinions i can get for free

Right on;
Those are my only two "regulars"...more useful, practical and much more like the outdoor sports 95% of us can relate to...

Spanky · « **Reply #43 on:** February 14, 2011, 09:15:16 AM »

I don't know which is a bigger pile of crap... The article or The Famous Grouse's opinion of the 30-30. IMO both suck.

Spanky

ironglow · « **Reply #44 on:** February 14, 2011, 09:17:43 AM »

wink_man · « **Reply #45 on:** February 14, 2011, 01:17:43 PM »

Quote from: The Famous Grouse on February 12, 2011, 05:25:46 PM

I don't own any magnum calibers.

Everbody knows somebody who's taken "a lot" (whatever that means) of deer with the .30-30. The .30-30 is a a perfectly adequate rifle for bait pile hunting where short, easy shots are the norm. I'm sure there are plenty of people who took "a lot" of deer with .22 rimfires, but that doesn't' make them a good deer rifle.

The .30-30 is a cartridge whose time has come and gone. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't sell Grandpappy's Ol' Meat Getter .30-30 because it's a part of history. But I wouldn't hunt with it for exactly the same reason.

Where I hunt, using antiquated cartridges doesn't make sense because baiting isn't legal (and even if it were, it still wouldn't be ethical) and therefore short, easy shots aren't the norm.

Grouse

Pretty funny stuff here, man, nothing like coming to Graybeard to get an education on rifle calibers, LMFAO.

Read less than a page and a half of the article, that was enough for me, reminds me why I don't subscribe to the gunrags anymore besides, seems I can get more of an education from Grouse here.

So Grouse, a 30-30 is only adequate for bait pile hunting at short distances? If I wanted to hunt over a bait pile(which I DON'T), I could accomplish that with a scoped smoothbore slug gun, and out to 100 yards. I would think if you check back in history, during the 30-30's heyday, baiting was pretty much illegal for whitetails and strongly enforced by game wardens.

Grouse, if your statement that the 30-30's time has come and gone and is an antiquated cartridge, I assume you are considering it 'antiquated' because it it first came out approximately 1895? If that is the case am I to assume that the venerable 30-06, which first came out in 1903 and was 'improved' in 1906 has,(or is about to become) inadequate for deer also? The 30-06 has probably killed more of all types of game except maybe the 30-30 very effectively. And definitely more people if you look at the history of the 30-06, in light of the fact that it came from the battle field to the sporting arena. Age would make it(or any other rifle caliber) inadequate? Please enlighten me, as I know I'm not the sharpest pencil in the pack, and I'm just not understanding the logic here. I sure would hate to have to sell my 6 Savage 24's in 30-30 over 20 gauge, and my 5 30-06's of various persuasions and buy a 'newer' caliber at this point to replace them because they are inadequate on whitetails.

john keyes · « **Reply #46 on:** February 14, 2011, 02:08:40 PM »

I hope no one's caliber got its feelings hurt...

wink_man · « **Reply #47 on:** February 14, 2011, 03:32:30 PM »

Quote from: john keyes on February 14, 2011, 02:08:40 PM

I hope no one's caliber got its feelings hurt...

Laughing here. I'm wondering also, for how long now has the 45-70 Gov. been inadequate? I mean that one was developed/standardized in 1873, jeeez, that could only be adequate anymore for bumble bees on a bait pile of clover flowers and mice maybe.

Swampman · « **Reply #48 on:** February 14, 2011, 03:54:29 PM »

Quote from: Casull on February 14, 2011, 07:12:48 AM

Quote
I like the article because he's mostly right.

Sorry, I just can't take a guy in white boots seriously.

I don't own any white boots.

nomosendero · « **Reply #49 on:** February 15, 2011, 01:55:30 AM »

ironglow · « **Reply #50 on:** February 15, 2011, 02:21:02 PM »

Zounds !! Heavens forbid ! ...I am one of those primitives who use the aged 30/30 to hunt these eastern mountainous woodlands, and I think it is nearly ideal for that. No, we are not allowed bait piles for hunting where I live...and I wouldn't use them if they were.
Now I have concern for my fellow hunters who, still forbidden to use bait piles..venture into these same woodlands with the even more primitive bows and muzzleloaders..

mannyrock · « **Reply #51 on:** February 16, 2011, 05:05:00 AM »

For the guys who have totally blown their gaskets over this article, I find this really funny. Haven't you got more important things to get really really angry about?? How bout the trillion dollar deficit. Sheesh.

The Writer of the article is certainly not an idiot. He is making a living writing sporting articles, which is more than most of us could do. :-)

And oh yea, there's this little thing called Freedom of the Press, aka the First Amendment.

Best, Mannyrock

eye shot · « **Reply #52 on:** February 16, 2011, 06:14:53 AM »

The same of it is young people just getting into hunting reading crap like this can really get confused. The writer is not up to date on alot of the calibers or there ammo. He is trying to rewrite whats been written forty years ago. Many of those guns have improoved and surly the ammo has.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #53 on:** February 16, 2011, 06:30:53 AM »

Mannyrock,
Since I called the man an idiot. I wi respond and defend my statements.

First off, I am not upset. I am just generally bothered by miss information. As Eyeshot mentioned. Writers are given unearned authority as many readers look to the rags for information. No one looks for wrong or incorrect information. That's something no one needs or would pay for. SO these writers have atleast a monicum of responsability to print truths and accurate statements. Personal opinions not withstanding, also comedy considered. Now he mentions tounge in cheek and reloaders will have different opinions, but falls quite short of saying it's all fiction or purely for entertainment.

Many here are quite learned enough to and do infact teach others. Self included, I have been a firearms, archery and reloading certified instructor for more than ten years. I work with both municipal and federal law enforcement. Teaching tactical hand and shotguns gun compintency for over fifteen years. People infact pay to hear what I can teach them. This dosent mean I am always correct, but I do my darndest to provide true and accurate information and will not make a stand on things I don't know intimately. The day we die is the day we stop learning.

Now for my claim he is an idiot. The definition of idiot is someone foolish or stupid. Definition of stupid is a person of slow mind or unintelligent acts. He has done both foolish and unintelligent in this writing.

Re-read the article .... The man is a idiot.

CW

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #54 on:** February 16, 2011, 06:56:01 AM »

Quote from: mcwoodduck on January 19, 2011, 06:08:53 AM

Except, as you rightly point out, for the .30-30, which I generally refer to as, "The greatest deer-wounding rifle of all time." Yes, your grandpappy took a lot of deer with the .30-30. That's because he didn't have anything better. Times and rifles change.

Grouse

Last November went to Mt with a buddy to hunt and his cousin's kid shot two large cow elk with his 30-30.
Both were Bang trot flop. the trot was not far, 40 yards.
So how can round that kills elk be a deer wounding round?
Good hits are good hits.
[/quote]

The difference in the 300 WM , 3006 and 30-30 is how close you need to be to make a "good" shot . Trying to shoot deer at 300 yards with a 30-30 is not the rifles fault . When the 30-30 was new so was the 30-40 and others , I suspect they picked it because it worked at the range they took shots .
As for the article it worked more people are talking about the magazine today .

Flynmoose · « **Reply #55 on:** February 16, 2011, 06:01:39 PM »

To keep this sort of article in perspective..you need something to read when on the "throne".
BTW My Grandfathers Win 351SL, mfd in 1909, fed alot of families venison for many years.
FM

steve · « **Reply #56 on:** February 17, 2011, 02:21:01 AM »

It doesn't matter what caliber you use during hunting season. They all do the job they are intended for. It is where you place the shot. Hunting with a 22 head shot and they fell down dead. It is not the caliber, but the hunter himself. Majority of the hunters want a big hole and a large blood trail so they can follow. If you placed your shot right, you shouldn't have to do any tracking.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #57 on:** February 17, 2011, 02:35:39 AM »

Calling the 30-30 the top deer wounding caliber of all time is the same truth as saying Nolan Ryan walked more batters than anyone else in baseballs history. It's true, but needs to be put in context.

ironglow · « **Reply #58 on:** February 17, 2011, 11:09:26 AM »

Quote from: billy_56081 on February 17, 2011, 02:35:39 AM

Calling the 30-30 the top deer wounding caliber of all time is the same truth as saying Nolan Ryan walked more batters than anyone else in baseballs history. It's true, but needs to be put in context.

As I said earlier in this thread;

I agree, the old 30/30 is probably the top deer wounding cartridge of all time..and it usually wounds them to death !

cwlongshot · « **Reply #59 on:** February 17, 2011, 11:52:07 AM »

Quote from: ironglow on February 17, 2011, 11:09:26 AM

Quote from: billy_56081 on February 17, 2011, 02:35:39 AM
Calling the 30-30 the top deer wounding caliber of all time is the same truth as saying Nolan Ryan walked more batters than anyone else in baseballs history. It's true, but needs to be put in context.

As I said earlier in this thread;

I agree, the old 30/30 is probably the top deer wounding cartridge of all time..and it usually wounds them to death !

I agree, LOL, I was going to add. Fatally wounds 'em!! LOL

CW