Troops on Psych meds...

[WylieKy]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/19/concerns-raised-combat-troops-using-psychotropic-drugs/?test=latestnews

I work in a Psych lockdown and firmly believe all anti-depressants and anit-psychotics should only be recommended for people IN lockdown facilities.  Most of you know that I have a heavily libertarian leaning attitude towards recreational drug use, but these drugs quietly ruin more lives than marijuana and alcohol.  I'm not comfortable with troops being on these at all.  IMHO if a troop honestly needs and anti-psych or even an anti-depressant they are unfit for duty and should probably get a medical discharge. 

YAY counselors, family, friends, and coping.

BOO psych meds.

[Spirithawk]

It never failed to amaze me, and still doesn't, how the military will give a dishonorable discharge, and rightly so, to those they find have done serious drugs but at the same time will give those drugs, and worse, to the enlisted often without their knowledge without a thought. When talking the military it's hard to find logic where none exists. I have often been told that I'm a candidate for Morphine for life but like I told the doctors, " Sure, as if I don't have enough problems allready!" Sure, I'd love to be pain free. Those who have never dealt with chronic pain can't imagine the high of simply being pain free. Nothing to do at all with any kind of buzz. BUTTTT, the problem with any drug is that the more you take the more you need and that is a dead end road to nowhere! It's a fine line to walk and one gets tired of hearing, "The benifits outweigh the side effects!" Easy for the one prescribing them to say but all too often far from easy for the one taking them to deal with! For what it's worth, you are there dealing with things first hand so I very much value and apreciate your opinion.

[dukkillr]

Popping pills is the new American way, sadly.  There are good honest people who need psyc meds... they make up about 1% of the people who take them.  I think you should be required to go to weekly counseling with the goal of getting off the drugs the second you get the perscription.

[bigbird09]

Popping pills is the new American way, sadly.

This is very sad and very true.  The worst part is that most doctors will actually prescribe them, most often to people that don't really need them.  I also have to feel sorry for some of you old folk that go to the doctor as well, it seems that all they want to do is prescribe you drugs of some sort,  I know some old folk that are talking around 20-25 pills a day for various things.   

[Spirithawk]

Popping pills is the new American way, sadly.

This is very sad and very true.  The worst part is that most doctors will actually prescribe them, most often to people that don't really need them.  I also have to feel sorry for some of you old folk that go to the doctor as well, it seems that all they want to do is prescribe you drugs of some sort,  I know some old folk that are talking around 20-25 pills a day for various things.   

That's because that's where the money is. No profit in cures. Ever stop to wonder when was the last time they found a cure for anything? Nope, the news is always about a new drug to treat ailments. If you're cured then fewer or no more doctors visits. No more high prescription costs being payed out. You can bet that is exactly how they look at things! 

[Shu]

I think counseling, family and support groups are important. I don't like to see drugs pushed as a way of teaching people to cope. There is a reason our service people are taking anti depressants. It would be better to deal with the cause than just prescribe those pills. The base I work on has continual "all hands" messages about dealing with depression. The command wants people to engage each other and take an active interest in each others lives. The idea is to cut down on those feeling isolated. It seems to be working. We do have a smaller percentage of active duty folks that get deployed but all of the volunteers to deploy always do well when they come back.
Maybe it's ust the smaller community.

Pain free for those chronic pain folks would seem like heaven. Spirit Hawk is right about that. Unortunately counseling doesn't really work for that.

[Mikey]

In the first place the article mentioned a neu yawk city psychiatrist, which immediately nullifies any validity of the article.  In the 2nd place, you work in a lockdown unit, which makes you prejudiced - sorry, but you are way too involved with those mentally ill or those who feign or misuse mental illness to be objective.  3rd, you opine that a-ds and a-ps should only be 'recommended' for those IN lockdown.

I've not ever surveyed a psychiatric hospital, or general hospital psych unit or a forensic unit (lockdown) in Kentucky but I have surveyed those in just about every other state in the union, and confederacy as well, and there is no way in hay I would simply 'recommend' these meds for some of those patients - my preference would be the old frontal lobotomy approach or a sledge hammer.  Those truly mentally ill and simply not aware of thier actions should be locked up and continued on medications to control their behaviors.  Those who feign or misuse mental illness to get a break from the system should not receive the same treatment, but hard labor and should be forced to live out of doors.  Those who blame drugs or alcohol for mental illness type behavior should be put to work digging graves and should be forced to live out of doors.  No creature comforts at all. 

On one hand I am glad to see the number of suicides in war zone personnel drop but I'm just more than a bit whizzed that most of America has so far forgotten the homeless Vietnam Vets who still freeze to death on the streets or die of starvation in the gutters or the Korean Vets who finally die of noscomial (hospital borne) infections in run down VA facilities when their old wounds become so infected with filth that they call it MRSA (medically resistant Staph Allergy, or what the hay ever they call it). 

And why the hell should a soldier, who has fought and committed all he ever was to the cause of freedom, whether his own or that for others, be given a dishonorable discharge?  Because he needs some assistance?  Because some touchy-feely idiot counselor reeely, reeely feels it would be best for him when said counselor soils his pants thinking about having to go through what the soldiers have, or because some dumb-butt social worker has no clue as to what the soldier has been through or because some psych nurse wants a quiet ward and doesn't like dealing with soldiers who tell her/him that if they haven't been there they will never know or because some shrink disdains those who fought. 

Screw that!  Keep them in their units, keep them totally occupied so they cannot dwell on their emotional loses and get them right back up on the horse.

You however can stay in lockdown.

[Conan The Librarian]

People with mental problems are a serious liability whereever they are. The question in the military is whether they really are mentally unreliable. More likely, they're given drugs because that's the common knee-jerk treatment today. If, for example, you went to a doctor today and said you feel depressed, you would get a prescription for antidepressants with virtually no questions asked, and you could maintain that prescription indefinitely. Probably the same in the military, except that the use of these drugs makes them unfit for duty and therefore incriminates them. They can't hide their prescription histories as easily as a civilian can.

Of the few people I know who had medical problems while in the military, I've gathered that the military system of health care is all about giving the minimum of care when it's really needed and denying health care until you can make a big enough stink that they have to give you some attention.

We have a strong tradition of forgetting veterans in the US. Research the forgotten man for some amazing stories about this.  Bottom line is that after getting out of the service, they have to compete just like the rest of us.

[WylieKy]

3rd, you opine that a-ds and a-ps should only be 'recommended' for those IN lockdown.

By "recommended" I meant NOT "recommended" for anyone else.  I don't believe in "Drug Control" any more than I do "Gun Control."  I think that these drugs should be a last ditch effort for those that are chronically depressed and/or psychotic.  ESPECIALLY people who are in a position to greatly effect the lives of others, eg...Dr's, pilots, truck/bus drivers,  military, LEO, etc...  I think that the people in those groups sacrifice certain rights and are held to a higher standard of competency than the average citizen.

my preference would be the old frontal lobotomy approach or a sledge hammer.  Those truly mentally ill and simply not aware of thier actions should be locked up and continued on medications to control their behaviors. 

We currently have two residents that had this procedure done.  They're some of the last of a sad, terrible, footnote in our medical history.  It would have been more humane to round them up and put them in a gas chamber, Nazi Style.  If you're seriously condoning this type of procedure then you're a sick individual who may be one of the few in true need of Anti-Psychotics.

And why the hell should a soldier, who has fought and committed all he ever was to the cause of freedom, whether his own or that for others, be given a dishonorable discharge? 

When did a medical discharge become dishonorable? The fact is that some people are not mentally or emotionally built to handle war.  I don't think feeding them a hand full of pills and putting them back on patrol is going to help them or the people they are there to protect.  Better to give them some time to decompress, and if they still aren't able to cope with it, send them stateside with all due respect and honor same as any other disabled vet.

You however can stay in lockdown.

U mad, Mike?

[wreckhog]

The world has a long history of keeping troops under the influence in order to manage them. Think back to rum rations 200-300 years ago.

[Spirithawk]

I remember the guy on the Flight Line that opened up on the B-52's with an M-16 screeming they were purple dragons. Then there was the guy who climbed up on top of some lockers, started howling like a dog, and refused to come down.

[Mikey] Screw that!  Keep them in their units, keep them totally occupied so they cannot dwell on their emotional loses and get them right back up on the horse.]

          Would you really want someone with a metal problem walking behind you with a loaded firearm? Or have them working with equipment that not could just get them killed but many others as well? That is why they gave discharges when I was in. Guys that had metal problems, or had done drugs, simply couldn't be trusted and trust was extremely important!

As far forgetting Vets? The VA is very good at that. They'd rather you died and were no longer a problem!

[SHOOTALL]

The world has a long history of keeping troops under the influence in order to manage them. Think back to rum rations 200-300 years ago.

I think they still get them 

[MGMorden]

The world has a long history of keeping troops under the influence in order to manage them. Think back to rum rations 200-300 years ago.

I think they still get them 

The practice has ended, but it was much more recently than 200-300 years ago.  The Royal Navy continued rum rations until 1970.  Despite a strong affinity for rum (I have a hard time choosing between rum and bourbon as my favorite spirits - nothing quite like a nice bottle of Appleton Estate), it probably was a good idea to not have the sailors drinking whilst on the ship .

[SHOOTALL]

In june of 1970 they stoped the daily issue of rum but to this day still do it for speical occasions by order of the Queen such as a royal wedding . Canada still does also I think.

[Mohawk]

Try controlling a 100 lb Autism patient without Resperidone and Tegretol in recommended amouts. I have personal experience and am against over-medication but the results are overwhelming. You have folks that are in the know and folks that quote websites and are obviously bored and have no actual  knowledge. While those folks are quoting websites WE are the ones dealing with the actual problem And if they join the military one day then they will probably need their meds. But..... At LEAST they are serving their country. Less could be said of non-medicated folks.   

[Spirithawk]

Try controlling a 100 lb Autism patient without Resperidone and Tegretol in recommended amouts. I have personal experience and am against over-medication but the results are overwhelming. You have folks that are in the know and folks that quote websites and are obviously bored and have no actual  knowledge. While those folks are quoting websites WE are the ones dealing with the actual problem And if they join the military one day then they will probably need their meds. But..... At LEAST they are serving their country. Less could be said of non-medicated folks.   

+1

[WylieKy]

I don't see much Resperidone or Tegretol.  Are those more MRDD than psych?   Our primary doc goes for seroquel, valpro, depakote, and ativan.  Ativan being the big gun.  We have a few on thorazine, but they are usually WAY out there the newer drugs have proven ineffective.  I don't ever see anyone being "cured" of anything with these drugs, just kept more or less quiet.

[Mohawk]

Yes they are being used here and still very effective. Though there is no cure for headaches but one performs better with a pain killer than with not, correct? Normally, its the dosage of any given med rather  than the wrong drug that is the improvement. Resperidone has proved key, actually. Meds aren't to cure(at least Autism) but to at least give a functional normal day. Sometimes that is good enough. At least for a day.... And the next day you try again... 

[WylieKy]

That's great.  Autism is a terrible disease.  I don't see much of it, most with Autism end up with some form of home health and not in my type of facility.  The people I have are mainly psycho-affective or some derivative of it.  A few drug/alcohol dementia and other forms of violent dementia.

Now keep in mind that I never said that the drugs shouldn't be used for sick people.  What I am saying is that those sick enough to need them have no business in our military.   

[wreckhog]

That's great.  Autism is a terrible disease.  I don't see much of it, most with Autism end up with some form of home health and not in my type of facility.  The people I have are mainly psycho-affective or some derivative of it.  A few drug/alcohol dementia and other forms of violent dementia.

Now keep in mind that I never said that the drugs shouldn't be used for sick people.  What I am saying is that those sick enough to need them have no business in our military.    

Like blacks, women, handicapped, Muslims, etc? There are a zillion jobs in the military. Including sweeping floors, changing oil, delivering mail. Which a person with controlled violent dementia can handle. You aren't carrying weapons on a US base anyway. For the most part. I do think that you should be registered as violent and not be allowed to handle weapons. If you start taking away jobs from these people, eventually the only place that will hire them will be the post office.....lol

[WylieKy]

Like blacks, women, handicapped, Muslims, etc?

Lets see...does being black cause one to not be able to perform their duty or put others at risk....no.  Female? ask the Israelis.  Muslim? not at all. 

Handicapped?, yes. Exactly. Our military should NOT be an equal opportunity employer, but be held to a higher standard.  The modern military is not the place for the lowest common denominator.  While we're at it, I'll say the military isn't the place for quadriplegics, hemophiliacs, or agoraphobes.  I guess that makes me an elitist.

[Mohawk]

I don't agree. If you are an American then you can serve. Period. If I had my choice between a dodging conscript and a meantally ill person that has had proper treatment who wants to serve.....then pass him the meds....let him do his job and be an American.  A person can be Commander In Chief in a wheelchair.....so why can't anyone else? 

[Spirithawk]

I don't agree. If you are an American then you can serve. Period. If I had my choice between a dodging conscript and a meantally ill person that has had proper treatment who wants to serve.....then pass him the meds....let him do his job and be an American.  A person can be Commander In Chief in a wheelchair.....so why can't anyone else?  

Physical problems can be over come but mental problems are another story. Even if a person should appear better a relapse could happen at any time and in the military that could cost lives. You don't make an alcoholic a bartender, a drug addict a pharmacist, and you don't give someone with mental problems a job where lives are on the line. You may say that they could just be given an office job but the fact remains that on a military base security is too important to purposely risk lives because you want to be politicly correct. There are plenty of civilian jobs that support the military that they might could do, thus they'd still be of service to their Country while not risking lives. I've seen first hand how mental problems and the military mix and it's far from pretty.

[goofyoldfart]

SpirtHawk : I tend to agree with you on the personal level that I won't take anything stronger than Ibuprofen, or if in serious pain ( 9-10 on the pain index) that lasts for 4 or more hours, then I use Herbals--Damiana and Lobela leaf and Valarian root steeped in a tea. then I sleep for 8-12 hours. pain is usually gone then. I have lived with pain for 40 + years thanks to 5 chopper crashes and 7 Tank mines. Meditation, prayer, Ibuprofen and the tea kept me working until I was 63, then I HAD to retire. It wasn't fair to my partners whose life or health might depend on my ability to perform when I couldn't. It really hurts your pride when you can't perform or defend your buddies any longer. BUT, you have to make that decision with honesty.  I have nothing to be ashamed of, I performed as long as I could and did so with honor and integrity and will not allow drugs to take what I have left from me.  I'm not sure if I spelled the tea mix right---It's late and I am playing with a 'puter that I have just fixed for a friend and want to make sure it IS fixed.  Bless you Brother Warrior.  God Bless to all.


                                 Goofy <aka GOF>

[wreckhog]

I don't agree. If you are an American then you can serve. Period. If I had my choice between a dodging conscript and a meantally ill person that has had proper treatment who wants to serve.....then pass him the meds....let him do his job and be an American.  A person can be Commander In Chief in a wheelchair.....so why can't anyone else?  

Physical problems can be over come but mental problems are another story. Even if a person should appear better a relapse could happen at any time and in the military that could cost lives. You don't make an alcoholic a bartender, a drug addict a pharmacist, and you don't give someone with mental problems a job where lives are on the line. You may say that they could just be given an office job but the fact remains that on a military base security is too important to purposely risk lives because you want to be politicly correct. There are plenty of civilian jobs that support the military that they might could do, thus they'd still be of service to their Country while not risking lives. I've seen first hand how mental problems and the military mix and it's far from pretty.

I know plenty of alcoholic bartenders.

[Mohawk]

There are plenty of military jobs that are non combat related. In fact I bet most are. Then again it depends on what type of mental illness.... 

[Spirithawk]

I don't agree. If you are an American then you can serve. Period. If I had my choice between a dodging conscript and a meantally ill person that has had proper treatment who wants to serve.....then pass him the meds....let him do his job and be an American.  A person can be Commander In Chief in a wheelchair.....so why can't anyone else?  

Physical problems can be over come but mental problems are another story. Even if a person should appear better a relapse could happen at any time and in the military that could cost lives. You don't make an alcoholic a bartender, a drug addict a pharmacist, and you don't give someone with mental problems a job where lives are on the line. You may say that they could just be given an office job but the fact remains that on a military base security is too important to purposely risk lives because you want to be politicly correct. There are plenty of civilian jobs that support the military that they might could do, thus they'd still be of service to their Country while not risking lives. I've seen first hand how mental problems and the military mix and it's far from pretty.

I know plenty of alcoholic bartenders.

Plenty of people that drive drunk too but it's not a smart thing to do now is it?

[Mohawk]

Americans are supposed to be the example of a free nation. That includes ALL of our citizens. If they Can do something then we will find WHAT they can do to serve this country.  Please don't confuse a mentally ill murderer to a person that can contribute with proper medication..... BIG difference. There are different theories but people in the real world are working on it. 

[Heather]

This is very sad and very true.  The worst part is that most doctors will actually prescribe them, most often to people that don't really need them.  I also have to feel sorry for some of you old folk that go to the doctor as well, it seems that all they want to do is prescribe you drugs of some sort,  I know some old folk that are talking around 20-25 pills a day for various things.   


That's because that's where the money is. No profit in cures. Ever stop to wonder when was the last time they found a cure for anything? Nope, the news is always about a new drug to treat ailments. If you're cured then fewer or no more doctors visits. No more high prescription costs being payed out. You can bet that is exactly how they look at things!

The cure for AIDS was patented in 1985 as the cure for AIDS.  Google Bob Beck for some more interesting information.  They have found cures in many other areas as well I am sure, but as you said there is more $ in treatments than cures.

Heather